Tom, once your trees grow big enough to flower, there there may be enough residual imidacloprid in them to hurt pollinators. Or not.

I'm not ready for that yet and on vacation now anyways ;-). My uncle is in charge of all the animals and trees at my house. I will probably start late Sept as I'm south of you.

Imidacloprid has endured multiple studies and also has been blamed for damage it does not cause. I am not going to debate it's use here in this forum. But will say, that - please - be careful listing links to old information / studies with poorly concocted conclusions. The very newest study results indicate that some of the bees have more difficulty hibernating over winter. that is it. Period.

For me, with 66 adolescent citrus in the ground, and in the fringe areas of ACP quarantines.... and HLB confirmed ~400 miles south of me, it is only a matter of time that I am pulling the trees out - and so Imidacloprid is an important plan of prevention. Glue traps could not keep up with the pest pressure. (I do have those all over).

I need to get to some new yard tasks this evening... figure out why a bunch of bumble bees are choosing my redwood trellis beams to bore into for nesting, and relocate them. And, also spray the hillside weeds - - - with RoundUp.

I will be starting my natural pest control by the end of August. (I currently spray the trees daily with a cold water blast) The hubby and I are still working hard on our underground greenhouse (converting part of root cellar ) which we hope to have finished by the end of September. At least half of my trees will be living there for the winter months, with a few that will be planted in ground. (Eight feet underground.)

Jinny That is what I have.

Greenhouse and bucket lights · More Info

6b Steve

Not judging anyone that uses it, because many of us over the years have unknowingly bought plants and trees from growers, nurseries and retailers that often spray pesticides on plants that are offered for sale. We are much more aware now of the affects that such chemicals can have on this earth, its creatures and humans...I try to garden as organically as possible and start almost all of my plants from seed and buy most nursery plants from nurseries that have organic growing standards.. But I am not perfect because I do order citrus trees from nurseries that I now know spray/use said chemicals. That is why I cannot point my finger at anyone who uses neonicotinoids. . I just do the best that I can..

In reference to the neonicotinoids, keep in mind that trees and other "non flowering" plants are hosts to the larval stages of many important insects, including the pollinators. Much of the larvae are consumed by birds. If a tree has been treated, these larva are consuming neonicotinoids. Birds that feed on them are affected..The fluid from these plants, known as guttation (the act of sweating), is a source of hydration for many insects, including the bees. The neonicotinoids are also in the honeydew which is secreted from the aphids, which honeybees collect...

Even if you spray only the leaves and not the blossoms, the caterpillars are being poisoned which in turn are poisoning the birds which eat them..

Steve, you have a great setup and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience with your growing methods. The pictures help us visually and gives us a mental picture as well. I have showed the hubby pictures of your setup and he is impressed also..

We already had a outdoor woodroom/furnace connected to the underground cellar, so on freezing cold days/nights the gh portion will be heated with wood. We already had plenty of air vents and air returns so it is just a matter of adding the roof windows/gh panels, lights, benches etc.. I have 2 more trees going in the ground. The first winter will be a learning experience for sure..wish we had more time in the day..

Jinny, again, I do not wish to debate this here. But, I wish that folks reading this know that Imidacloprid has high toxicity to insects while having "low toxicity to mammals". Proving zero effect to mammals like birds is difficult and I suppose that time will eventually tell. Using the word "poison" is - in my opinion - a stretch.

I would be happy to delete the application of Imidacloprid; it takes time and money. But until we have a genetically capable citrus tree(s) that are immune to HLB, resist CLM and other pests, I will do what is recommended to protect my trees.

In Florida, where most all groves are infected with HLB, citrus trees are sold.... and all of them are required to be sold, with a current dose of Imidacloprid or similar systemic.

You, Steve, and the scores of others in non-citrus growing regions amaze me with what you do - and the efforts that you expend to get these persnickety trees to grow and produce. And with that, you are away from some of the pests and threats... it gives you great freedom to grow and grow organic if you wish.

Post pics - we love them!

Well. it's interesting to see how many of us friends here care for future or current pest issues............

In my case, I pretty much treat my trees all summer long at least twice a month with Neptune's Harvest Fish Emulsion and soak all my trees from top to bottom. It does the job for my trees keeping them clean and void of all sucking pests...

If I should notice I missed a tree or two then I will turn to Horticultural Oils and do a massive spray of that with my hose about the First week of September giving my plenty of time ti kill any pests and then the eggs which can hatch up to three weeks later. I have actually seen Spider mites show up after Christmas telling me they are dormant on my trees waiting to hatch in winter if I don't do this routine.

In any case, I always leave myself plenty of time to treat my trees, at least 4 weeks just so as to make sure the ones in the potting soil die, eggs die and any stragglers..

You all have the right mind set about caring for your trees although so many different methods and that is a huge encouragement...

Mike, I inspect each of my trees daily and have not found any evidence of pests, with the exception of the damage caused by grasshoppers or katydids, so I find it unnecessary to preventively treat.

Suzanne,

That information would make me sad as well.. if any of it were true.

I use imidacloprid 2-3 times per year; it does not harm the beneficials; and no trace amount has been found in any of our fruit.... Not even the European Union has found any.

As for systemic fungicide, I use Bayer Silvacur; but not sure where it is available in other countries. The combination of those two, which are tank mixable results in virtually no insect or fungus problems and all our beneficial helpers are happy campers.... even the bees; although I don't like bees much... they bother my workers and make seeds in my lemons. We keep no bee hives on our farms; but bees will come from half a mile for a Meyer lemon flower.

I'll start spraying my trees in October/November. The temperatures are in the highs of 70's to low 80's. time to oil. I will get that done tonight. As far as chemicals I have an anti fungal spray that works on problems that my other organic stuff I have don't.

To those of you in HLB territory. In many ways it is easier to grow citrus here in Cincinnati. I will be cutting the lumber for my removable glass greenhouse this weekend. It will take about 4 hours to glass it up in the fall and 2 hours to remove the glass it in spring and will house 8 foot tall trees up front and 12 foot trees in the rear. My trees are in ground and it is the greenhouse and not the trees that must be moved.

6b Steve

That's good Vladimir..You are one of the very few lucky ones that has no pests or any eggs yet, eggs or nymphs which can not be seen until they hatch....

I see many are dealing with pests all summer long which stinks and I am one of those lucky ones that does not have any of those issues since I do take preventative measure all summer long. If you have clean trees void of all harmful pests seen and unseen, you must be doing something right! Hats off to you.

As for me, if I let off, something will invade them before they come, weeks before they do..(

Mike)

I do have a question about the Bayer Systemic though??????????

Why is it that the bottle itself says 'kills Mealy Bugs" and yet it does not work at all?

If it's not targeting the pest it's design to do, then why believe anything this company says? I even watered a few of my plants twice with this stuff last winter and it dos not work. It does not work on Spider Mites either, the two worst and most common insects here in the North East. In fact, it's been told using systemics actually encourages mites...

Thanks you...

Mike

Well, Bayer Systemic that the home owner can buy is notably dilute; but still works okay; it only kills things that suck on or chew on the leaves. Mealy bugs are easily washed off with water. I don't have a problem at all with spider mites; and little problem with scale. The wasps mostly control the scale, which is good because the systemic does not kill the wasps. Bayer imidacloprid is also topically active, meaning it will kill things like mealy bugs if they are present at the time it is applied, and before it enters the plant.

I have sprayed my trees here and there during this season but I think I will get serious about treatment for pests towards the end of August.

Besides what has already been mentioned does anyone have the name of a systemic fungicide?

Johnmerr how to decide which study to believe? It is easier to choose the one to be true that fits our needs the best. Of course this is very opinionated. The EU did not regulate some chemicals just because they could. There must be a reason for it. And one is no doubt the decline of the honeybee.

Suzanne,

First, there IS NO DECLINE of the honeybee; what all the fuss was about was called colony collapse; and that problem has gone away... it only remains with those who have an agenda to keep it circulating. Second, the very best and most in depth studies found NOTHING linking imidacloprid to any death of honeybees; but in the end the incredible pressure from the "eco freaks" resulted in a "conclusion" that said, "Although we could find NO EVIDENCE OF ANY DAMAGE TO BEES, we concede that it is POSSIBLE that it could be a CONTRIBUTING FACTOR to colony collapse". That is not science, dear, that is politics. And as far as the EU policies are concerned, it is political correctness run AMOK; in the largest bureaucracy in the world.

A little history.... what was called "colony collapse" in honey bees is a non-specific malady which allowed the enemies of the chemical companies to rally round it and blame the chemicals; they still claim it is going to destroy the industry, even though the malady has mostly disappeared. At first it was a variety of bacterial and fungal diseases caused by a combination of poor practices and sanitation aggravated by centuries of inbreeding of honey bees that produced a weak and fragile species. That was followed by the "attack of the mites", first the tracheal mites and later the dreaded Varroa mites. Ironically beekeepers soon learned that if they put a menthol cough drop in the bottom of the hive the Varroa would vacate; and they can ONLY reproduce in bee colonies.... but the cough drops were illegal, because.... Are you ready for it???? Menthol was not registered for bees by the FDA!!! Once again friends, that is not science, only politics and lobbyists.

Thankfully colony collapse has been solved; and is now only kept alive by the radicals who want to destroy the agri-chemical industry. There is also a great scam going around selling bracelets to help save the bees; it is a pure scam designed to get your money; and not one penny of the money goes to help bees. And that is a fact!!

Hey John, appreciate the help...

My problem with that stuff is that I bought it last winter when I had seen many mealy bug on my succulents and Hoya plants and in fact some had lodged themselves into the root system of some which can be impossible to rid of with oils..

So reading the label on that bottle which say's "kills Mealy" I was desperate and bought some. To this day I am still dealing with Mealy on those plants even though I treated twice and now I am not sure what use...There is no natural anything that will kills these things unless you toss the plants, at least not that I know of.. If I had treated them all summer last year to prevent them, I would not be dealing with them today((

Outdoors mealy bugs are easy enough to deal with; they can be washed off with water; aside from that you might want to try a stronger, topical insecticide just for the mealy bugs.... maybe something with a 10-15 day residual; ask your local experts. I use a lot of things that you can't get unless you are a licensed applicator.

Johnmerr I think it is pointless to continue this discussion. I would like to add a final comment. When we moved in our house 14 years ago, our crab apple tree would be humming with bees and bumble bees every spring. It was really loud for three days until it did quiet down. About six or eight years ago we noticed a drastic decline in bee population and before we got our hives three years ago, we hardly saw any bees. It does not take any scientific report to tell that something is wrong. When I was a child, we had an abandoned number of bumble bees during the summer. Yesterday I was so happy to see one that I had to call my husband to show him. I don't know in what area you live, but obviously you don't see the changes as much as I do here. Butterflies are another story. We love to see them but the variety we had is gone. Why? (hypothetical, no answer needed and just food for thoughts) We all are about to ruin our planet with all the things we do for profit. Notice I say we as I include me too. I'm getting older and see the changes myself. And it makes me sad.

To control mealy bugs on my in ground trees I do as Johnmerr writes. I spray (blast) them off with just water from the hose. It does work quite well.

Suzanne (and others), please see my amended/edited comments above about honey bee "decline"... it is one of the greatest scams of modern times.

Silica, I am not talking about outside in ground trees. Those that come inside at the end of the season.I am talking about mealy bug that infest plants in which they hide very well such as crevices and in soil..Have you ever heard or 'root mealy'? Thanks

https://www.google.com/search?q=root+mealybugs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRpI6M6MjVAhXJ4IMKHYY5CnMQ_AUICigB&biw=982&bih=462&dpr=1.25

These are very tough to get rid of and a blast of water everyday will not do it. Weeks after bringing your plants in they come from no where and can devastate an entire greenhouse or let's say my houseplants.

I wondering why this Bayer Product claims it does kill mealy when really it does not. I did call my Nursery today and they are going to recommend something since they are in agreement with me and they did agree that Bayer for this is useless...They are going to see if they have something in the Bonide family that will not hurts good insects..

Susanne, you are right..It is happening here too. In fact my friend who lives in New Hampshire on the country side actually had to hand pollinate all her cucumbers and zucchini because there were no honey bees this year, in fact the past couple..It's scary! Until people accept what's going on, they will just continue to do what they do until they are extinct.

Johnmerr yes you are right and probably don't believe in global warming either. Did you know they just discovered that our planet is indeed a disc?? ;) End of arguments.

John and I got in to it over global warming some 4 years ago. You are right. John doesn't believe in global warming. I however do and I am enjoying the extra 6 WEEKS of growing season I have over my gardening 50 years ago when I started gardening.

Global warming thread

Read it for laughs.

6b Steve.

Beautiful picture Robin. Thank you for sharing :) Love manuka honey. I had some when I visited New Zealand 20 years ago. No idea what hebes are but opium poppies sound great too.

Steve I did read the whole dang thing and was really tempted to give my 2cents ;). Just wanted to mention just to you that we planted some more big trees to get more shade ;) hehe

Should I treat my meyer lemon tree for its first winter with me even if I don't see any pest around it?

Christina I would at least give it a good wash top to bottom and make sure you don't bring anything in. If that is your only tree, it might be enough. I have over 20 trees and need more even if I don't see anything now.

thank you Susanne, I will do that. Yes, it's my only tree

Do I wash flowers and fruits too?

Yup, the whole tree. You can use the garden hose with shower attatchment to wash the tree. How big is it?

Cristina, even if you had an issue with let's say mite or anything else, taking care of one tree would be so much easier than some of us with dozens..You can catch anything on that tree quickly and if you are aware of the problems that face it , you already have a wonderful start!

I found out that the Bayer does not live up to it's performance it once did since the changed the formula.. So now I will be using the Bonide Systemic since the plants I do use it on will be houseplants verses edible and those that are not in bloom. I can not afford to carry in Mealy bug on plants where they hide in the ground, crevices, under pots, along bottom rims and yada yada....Once you get mealy your whole concept of using organic ones will change or you will throw away many once treasured plants!

My tree is still small, between 12 to 18 months.

The wine vinegar is to drown fungus gnats

This is the product that I bought. I tested it yesterday on one leaf just in case it produces any damage. Do you have opinions or advice?

Thank you

Christina this is a good product. Just make sure sun is not too hot or leaves might burn. Early morning or late afternoon is the best time to spray. If you are careful with watering, you should not have a problem with fungus gnats. I read that rice hulls help to keep gnats under control but have no own experience with it

Thank you Susanne.

Yes, I tested the product in the afternoon with no sun light. I let the soil dry before I water again, but the fungus gnats are around even with the first inches completely dry. I also bought this on amazon for when I move the tree inside

I will see if I can find something out about the rice hulls. Sticky stakes should help too :)

Found leaf roller type caterpillers IN my kumquats. Hand picked for now (fun) and am debating a spray. I don't have any Bt on hand, so I'm pondering neem.

Found a small anole on another kumquat. It was evening so he was tucked in for the night. Would like to think they are out there looking for those cats. I think I've seen them eat moths, so that's good. My other plants get patrolled by the small wrens, but they don't seem to check out the citrus. If the turtle could climb, I suppose he'd take care of those cats. The cats are quite speedy, but also if that turtle, actually.

Very, very few frogs this year. Very unusual.

I need to review the specifics as to what benefits these have: ProTekt (or similar) , foliar kelp. For a 'strengthen the plant' type approach.

If you need to add more fans to your indoor grow-space, now is a time when stores tend to discount them.

Hibiscus, you are SO right!! I have no frogs at all this summer. What happened to them? It's the first year in over 5 that I see not a one in any of my ponds. So discouraged!..........

BY the way, some have to treat their trees NOW so as to give them time ti give more than 3 treatments for three weeks until they are brought in to make sure they kill new born and eggs...

Some will wait until after the beneficial pests are long gone and then spray!

Bt can be harmful; and in higher dosage lethal to frog tadpoles.

I did not know that. I know a lot of people are using the Bt tablets for their ponds to control mosquito larvae. I would have thought that this automatically would reduce frog populations because there is no food for their off spring. We had thousands of frogs this year and lots of little baby turtles. We do not use mosquito control.

I use Bt or, when I can find it, Methaprim to control mosquitos in my fountains; but I don't have frogs, so I don't have to worry about that.

I am sure I have some variation in frog populations from year to year. But this year seems unusual. As with anything, there could be a number of contributing factors.

I use Bt in my 'ponds', and still have tadpoles (normally). I appreciate the h/u that some higher level may be harmful. Increased organics in the water means you have to use more Bt for control, so I do estimate the lowest dose and then titrate up from there to achieve control.

Hey guys..

I am going to treat all mu succulents with a systemic to rid the mealy population because you need at least 6 weeks of treatment to kill them all once and for all.

I just bought another bottle of Fish Emulsion for 34 dollars on sale and will be doing that until they come in once every other week!