Tom I believe those 2 are pumpkins.

6b Steve

Could be Tom! That's very interesting, I'd mark that branch and watch it next season to see if you get the same results. If you do, you might have something that you could submit for a patent.

Evan

If not a patent, at least a candidate from which to take a bud or two for budding to another rootstock. A cupla years ago my workers picked a large and strange fruit from one of my Meyer lemon trees. When we cut it open we found it to be some kind of quite nice sweet orange. Unfortunately, they did not mark the tree from which it came. They are better trained now.

Thanks, Silica, Steve, Evan, and John!

I did some reading, and apparently back in the 1920s, there was a bunch of research into bud sports of the Washington navel (see link). It seems most had inferior juice quality, but I'll give it a run. And who knows, it may still drop the fruit yet... but you never know!

-Tom

Cara Cara, which itself is a sport of Washington Navel orange also is a "frequent" cultivar for making sports.

You may end up with something quite nice; but the odds are with that ribbed fruit, the fruit will end up being inferior. Best of luck and please keep us informed. Silica, I don't think Cara Cara is a sport; but more an accidental cross between the Washington Navel and the Bahia. I am certainly no expert here; but that is my understanding. No matter the origin, the Cara Cara is my all time favorite orange for eating. I still think the Midknight Valencia is my favorite for juice; but the variety is too new to know for sure.

Very interesting Tom. It will be fun to watch how it develops.

Cory

That is interesting Tom and I do hope you keep us informed. I had no idea that could even happen. I learn so much from you guys!

So exciting to see citrus tree do that, keep us posted, Tom!

Johnmerr, the Washington Navel and the South American Bahia are the same tree. In the case of the Cara Cara sport it was found on a single limeb of the tree.

I definitely will, guys!

Silica,

You are almost right....In botany, a sport or bud sport, traditionally called lusus, is a part of a plant that shows morphological differences from the rest of the plant. Originally the Washington navel came from Bahia, where the first navel oranges were found as a sport in about 1820; however, neither the Washington navel nor the Bahia navel are what they were then; and those who call themselves expert believe the Cara Cara is an accidental cross between the two modern versions. The fact that it was found on only one limb is irrelevant; unless that one limb repeatedly produces a different fruit.

Johnmerr, thank you for your explanation. What you write about the Cara Cara is what is written by Wikipedia . According to the University Of California's Citrus Variety Collection, the Cara Cara orange is indeed a mutation from a Washington Navel orange tree. This mutation was not found until 1976 growing on a Washington Navel tree on grounds of the Hacienda Cara Cara in Venezuela. Below is what the UCR variety Collection webb site says about the Cara Cara. When it come to citrus, one does not get more expert than the University Of California at Riverside.

" Parentage/origins: Cara Cara navel orange, a mutation that occurred on a Washington navel orange tree, was discovered in 1976 at Hacienda Cara Cara in Venezuela. From Venezuela, it was brought to Florida and then introduced into California, where it is well adapted. "

INTERESTING COMMENT:: The Cara Cara orange is named after a common Venezuelan bird of pray in the falcon family having a red mark behind it's beak. . The word is written caracara when referring to he bird.

I understand what UCR "believes"... as with much of UCR "knowledge" it is what someone else told them, not what they discovered themselves. I personally have little faith in those ivory tower experts who almost never get into the field to find out even what the growers already know.

Johnmerr, how could a Bahia and a Washington Navel orange cross to produce a new type, they are both the same tree. Just two names for the same tree. The original Washington Navel orange tree was imported from the city of Bahia, Brazil into the USA and arrived in Washington DC at the USDA greenhouses. The growers and people of this country began calling the tree Washington Navel orange and that name stuck. They are the very same tree. ,

Silica,

"They are the very same tree. ".... Well, they are and they aren't. 150 years ago they were the same, only a different name. The Washington navel is called that because it arrived in Washington DC and was put on wagon trains going West. Today the Washington navel and the Bahia navel are sooooo different than they were then, as to almost be different varieties. If I give you my opinion, it is only my opinion; but unlike the gods at UCR, I have actually been to Bahia; and in 1980 to the Cara Cara plantation in Venezuela (when i was International Agribusiness Specialist for Bank of America). It was the guys at Cara Cara who first told me about the new Red Navel they had discovered; and THEY thought it was an accidental cross. Some cultivars were later brought to Florida, where (like Cara Cara folks) it was called Red Navel. I believe the UCR cultivars came from Florida. BTW the geniuses at UCR would tell you that the Meyer lemon is a thornless variety; but I have 35,000 trees, and to my knowledge not one of them is thornless. Maybe just one more example... the Ataulfo mango of Southern Mexico was originally (300 years ago) the Carabao mango of the Philippines (brought by the Spanish); but no longer is; it is close, but NOT the same. They often try to market it as the Carabao/Manila/Philippine mango; but they are always sued; and they always lose. If you had a chance to see my latest Meyer lemon trees, you would see immediately that they are unlike anything you might source in the US, in terms of tree phenology, fruit size, fruit type, etc. We now produce NO Meyers with necks, none with thick rough skin, etc. All of our trees produce the smooth skin, semi-oval fruits of size 3 per pound that the premium markets demand. I think that is my last word on this subject; and I could give a rat fart about what Wikipedia says.

Well, john you are a nice guy, and I always enjoy reading your post. On the subject of Washington/Bahia trees and the expertise of UCR's citrus knowledge we will just have to agree to disagree. As always, the best to you and your trees..

Silica,

If it is the Cara Cara we are disagreeing about, I don't think anyone today knows for sure how it happened... maybe not even the guys at the origin at Cara Cara plantation. I don't really care; I love the variety. My buds came from the UCR collection. BTW, I learn a lot from your posts; and that is the reason I come here... to learn from the experiences of others.