It's probably me, but thanks for your reply....

Lea,

What makes you believe the wall is not fire rated currently?

Because there is no wall there. I have to put up the wall between my unit and the one next to me...and the guy next to me has to do the same. So..there is no wall yet. All other tenants have done the same...

I'd find out how the other neighbors did it and who they used to construct them. I'd also reach out to the neighbor who also has to build one adjacent to yours and see if the two of you can work together to get the walls built between the units. Maybe it'd be cheaper to have them done together.

Talk to the local city/county inspectors and get answers.

Lea,

So I understand: you and your neighbor have not moved into the unit yet? Was the original idea that the two units that are being split now was originally one unit? Did you purchase this unit yet? When you are in your unit today, can you see into your neighbors unit?

Winner for most confusing thread EVER.... I live in a townhome, There is firewall between us and also the roof has fire rated plywood covering the divided homes. As Virgil said, lets just imagine next door has HUGE fire in their third floor space, Fire gets to roof, Fire travels across roof and now is right above you, you will have a fire on your roof which will soon get into your third floor, Fire rated roof will at least slow down the fire so hopefully it can be put out... best of luck.

The whole thing sounds like an illegal conversion that has slipped under the radar of code enforcement. A death trap just waiting to happen. I cannot see how it wouldn't be condemned if it were discovered that the original developer didn't do the basic construction properly in order to legally sub divide the building. It cannot hold a multi family CO without firewalls being on the first order if business, before anything else happens to create habitable units.

Prices depends on location and vary from contractor to contractor. You need to know exactly what you need... Because there is a big difference between: common 1-hour fire-resistance-rated wall, common 2-hour fire-resistance-rated wall, and full firewall. Firewalls here extend from the foundation through the roof.

One hour fire resistant rated walls are pretty cheap, they nothing more than steel studs, insulation and couple layers of special drywall. Sealed block firewall could cost you more than 10,000 when it extends out above the roof.

Thanks for all the info!

Lea,

Did you see my question above? Can you provide the answer?

Sorry. Yes, i purchased it last year. No, we have not moved in. No, this was not one unit split into two. As i said earlier, building was divided into 11 units. Yes, i can see into my neighbors unit. There are 8 finished units. Three are not. I own one. I can see into my neighbor's. That is where i need the wall so that i can no longer see into his unit. He will need to put one up as well.

This is one where I'd get together with the neighbor that shares the wall and work together to split the cost and choice of the wall. What are the requirements given to you from the code office? Without knowing what is required it is hard to advice.

If you can't catch the other owners in person, maybe write them a letter and ask who they used and what they used and give your email so they can contact you.

That is a good idea. Thanks!

"...Winner for most confusing thread EVER..."

And perhaps the most illegal and dangerous threat to life safety!

Depending on each tenant to bring the building up to building code requirements for each of their condo units is begging for cheap and incomplete work by inexperienced owners.

There are so many ways to construct a 1-hour or 2-hour fire rated wall. The simplest is a metal stud wall with 5/8-inch Type X gypsum board, both sides, with no penetrations for electrical, etc.

I can't imagine the local building department allowing this to happen in such a fashion.

There's got to be more to this story than we're hearing.

To the OP, I'd ask: 1) What is the required fire rating for the separation wall? and; 2) What is required at the roof? and; 3) Have you stood in the office of the building inspector and described this situation to them? And if so, what was their response?

I don't know the answers to these questions. I will talk to the building department again and find an estimate. Thanks for all the time and responses and yes, I agree, most confusing thread I've ever seen, on any topic. I explain the setup of this building often to people and they understand, so I guess I'm slipping. That said, I don't talk about firewalls...which is why I came here. Thanks again for the help.

I'm sorry...more to this story, like what? Maybe it shouldn't be called a condo, I don't know. I have to admit I always thought of it more like a townhouse, but despite that, codes have been involved, all are sold, eight have been lived in, several for eight years or more. I realize length of occupancy has nothing to do with safety, maybe more with luck if this place is such a firetrap. Regardless of opinions on how this happened or why or how could it, fact remains I own one of the last three unfinished units. All are sold. I am too old to investigate the how and why of this place and am just going to get estimates IF I can get someone when they are not busy to come and check it out. Just like anything in life, I realize there are things that happen, deals, cost cutting, etc., in the building industry just like all others...but I have this place and will have to deal with what I have. Thanks again for the info.

I am always reading about warehouses and larger older buildings being converted into residential units. This cant be that unusual to have to add the firewall after building construction?

I would definitely get together with your neighbor for this. Also, I'd make it the wall soundproof as possible.

Now that is a good idea!

Google: ghost ship fire

There is no wall dividing your space with the neighbors on one side?

The other fire wall was installed by the person on the left? What does it look like from your side?

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the interior you could post.

As someone said above, commercial warehouse space -- office/warehouse condo, is typically divided from its neighbor by a steel stud and drywall firewall.

Talk to an inspector NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Find out what is legal in your case!!

There are many ways to construct a "firewall". There are different requirements dependant upon the use of the building and spaces. There are different degrees of fire separation designated as "hours". You may want to talk to someone local that is well versed in construction, design, and codes.

(hint: architect)

I think, and correct me if I am wrong, you own space in an old factory under a condominium arrangement. At least your space and your neighbor's space have not been built out into usable residential space(s). Somehow it has become your responsibility to construct a legal physical division between you and your neighbor(s) within the area you own. And you want to know how to best do that. (see advice immediately above)

I'm beginning to think that this is a real estate con game, where someone is selling "air" to unwary buyers. What's to prevent an "owner" of putting up a demising wall, say, ten feet from the actual property line and adding a little more "air" to their unit, at their neighbor's expense? Is a civil engineer or licensed surveyor involved to mark the actual location of the demising wall?

Yes, engineers have been involved. This is a legitimate conversion and has been divided like this for at least 10 years.. I just am floored by the confusion. I guess it's my explanation but for the life of me I can't think how else to explain it. I do not need an architect...not yet. Codes has been involved from the beginning...which was years ago. I just happened to buy one of the last remaining unfinished units. I purchased unit 6, I forget the dimensions but it's longer than it is wide, 11 ft. ceilings, all adding up to 3000 sq. ft., three floors. There is a *property* line where my unit ends. One of my walls is existing, brick. I put up the other at my property line on the other side...that's the firewall. The neighbor on the other side of my firewall has to put up his own wall. It has not fallen to me to be responsible for the wall for him, we each put up our own. Thanks for all info and concerns...

The confusion comes from the fact that the building's developer appears to have successfully pawned off basic conversion tasks that were his responsibility. I.E. You bought a condo that was not actually physically a condo, and can not be occupied. That is kinda like fraud.

When a non residential building needs to be converted to a residential multi family, a developer goes in, creates complete firewall separation from the basement past the roof between the units as the first order of business in the conversion. That division into separate units requires that, in order to get an occupancy permit for any dwelling in the building. Then he addressees the separate utilities and HVAC for each unit, etc.

Only once the initial infrastructure is completed, then can the units be sold as units.

None of that proper infrastructure sounds to be done in this building. It does not sound as though it was actually ever legally converted to a multi family dwelling.

That is why there is so much confusion here. What you are describing as needing done, is virtually impossible to retrofit properly in any cost effective manner while people are occupying the building. It needed to be done while the building was unoccupied, during the initial conversion from factory to residential. It should not even be legal to occupy without the initial work done properly.

Who developed this building?

And where is it located? I can't believe that this was done legally and has been allowed to be occupied for "at least 10 years". I wonder what a mortgage lender and an insurer would say about this? Does the building and each unit have fire sprinklers?

Pictures speak a thousand words.

One of my biggest fears as an architect is a client starting a project, then calling me in to finish it. If you are going to get an architect involved, get them involve now.

couple things, you say you are to old to investigate how this
ponsi scheme started, Sorry this just sounds very sketchy. Are you considering
an elevator for the three stories you’ll be living in? When you say you can see into neighbors condo, is his built yet, if so does he have a
window on inside? That will then have to be covered by fire rated wall… Best of luck.....

I suspect there are a lot of different visuals going on from people responding. Post some photos...

(5 blind people touching an elephant in different parts and trying to describe that section they "see".)

Rumi..love it. Thanks for all interest but im kind of over this thread, as im sure some others are as well

Well...I guess it's clear the OP didn't like the responses she was getting and didn't understand the seriousness (such as cost, construction difficulty and life-safety) of the situation as described. And I guess we will never get a clear picture of what is actually going on.

This is truly one for the record books.

Lea, I think I understand the concept. It is not your explanation that is the problem, it's just that there are a number of parochial thinkers here who can't think beyond their personal boxes and experiences. That's what I find so bizarre. In the area we ware building there are are a growing number of conversions and work/live projects that are out if the box but prospering (and we have very strict code enforcement!).

I faced the same thing years ago with our duplex concept -- everyone was thinking a basic mirror image smaller lower quality building. Nope! In my neighborhood luxury duplexes are common, each unit unique and each side valued at more than 1M. The first ones down the street sold for 1.1 for one side and 1.2 for the other. The next one built sold for 1.5 one side and 1.6 the next. Both were spec (but unique designs by prominent local architects) and built by different builders and private investors. Two more broke ground this summer. The only thing unusual about ours is that it is fully custom for two generations of our family and designed specifically for us.

I am sorry that I can't help with the firewall issue, but I am more sorry that you've had to endure such uninformed and unimaginative responses here. You asked about firewalls and most of the answers you got had nothing to do with that issue, but questioned the entire concept.

I also suspect that if 8 units are complete, that it's a viable project, if out of the box alternative, and really sound like a fun project! I do agree with the advice to reach out to some of the other owners and see how that handled the firewall.

The firewall will be going in at the framing stage. As I've stated many times, there is no wall there at all.

I don't get how it is sub-divided, some unit occupied, other units unoccupied (unfinished), yet no firewalls. How does the interior get divided into descernable units without the basic structure completed? Very odd situation.

Op do you have a picture of your unit as it is now?

Mill - I think it is handled with signage. One condo owner (without firewalls) has signs placed at the perimeter of their condo facing their neighbor's condo (without firewalls) that states, "Do Not Cross This Line". It sounds like most of the condo owners are respecting the condo boundaries, except those that have installed firewalls. But it also sounds like the OP's neighbor may be engaging in activities that makes it conducive for the OP to erect a firewall; playing with matches perhaps.

Pictures would be very helpful.

This thread has become like a train wreck to me. I can't stop looking at the replies but I will hopefully soon. I appreciate the time taken to reply, even though some of the comments have been a little bizarre. Thank you, mojomom, and a couple others, for being voices of reason in this *most confusing post ever*.

I know nothing about building. I understand if people are alarmed that this is somehow a disaster, but that said, it is what it is. It is an existing and ongoing project. I won't repeat that others have lived here for 10 years or so, but I guess I just did. I have no pictures and will not be driving there to take them.

Picture a brick rectangle with a roof and windows and cement floor. No walls at all. There are windows in this rectangle, four on each floor. It has been measured out...surveyed??...surely you know what I mean, please no critical comment on my choice of words there. Each measure space is a unit.

That is how it looks and that is what the picture would show.

I have already talked to: Codes, Architect, Builder, one neighbor but the neighbor was a long time ago and they are the ones who have lived there for so long. There's is totally finished and beautiful.

At this point all I'm hoping to find is another estimate for the firewall. That's it.

The reason I keep coming back to this site is because I can't stop trying to explain just how it looks...not how it came to be, why it happened, why it's probably a ponzi scheme, whether or not there are squatters. I think that's where this post went astray when the first response started yelling about SQUATTERS.

Love the comment about the signage. I think the architect here is the one who put up the signs.....

Well, I'm certainly sorry if comments here have led to the thread becoming a train wreck for the OP. This situation is so far from what most of the professionals here have every experienced that it makes no sense, and raises all sorts of construction cost, legal and life-safety issues.

The OP doesn't understand this and simply wants to move on with the project and her life. That's understandable--we all do.

I continue to think that some sort of experienced, professional help is needed and that a long discussion in the office of the building official is critical. The OP thinks that since other inhabitants have "done it", everything is OK and now it's her turn.

Sincere best wishes that this turns out the way you hope for it. :-)

I do NOT think that just since others have done it that it's okay. That would be ridiculous. I am concerned about the safety. While I agree I do not understand construction issues, I feel like I have talked with and consulted every official that has been mentioned in all of these posts.

I said it's turned into a train wreck because I've gotten more posts about how could this have happened, you need to talk to so-and-so, it will cost 700,000, are there squatters...that's the train wreck.

I NEVER said experienced help wasn't needed. What everyone mostly has skimmed over is that i have talked to the experts that were mentioned. All I wanted was a cost per sq. ft. idea of a firewall. If that's impossible to give, fine, just everybody say so. I don't need another person asking me what the wall looks like when I've said that there is at this time no existing wall.

Thanks for the time and concern. It will either work out or it won't.

"All I wanted was a cost per sq. ft. idea of a firewall"

That's impossible.

That's all I wanted. Another site said firewalls had a price range of x to x per sq. ft. so thought i'd ask that way. Thanks!

For your contemplation, I will repeat my first words of good advice:

Find a good local architect. More than likely, your question is more complicated than you think.

And I will repeat...please read my posts. I"ve said countless times that I've already talked with an architect.

Have the licensed architect that designs your unit determine how the "firewall" assembly should be configured and detailed. Have them produce drawings that you can take to a builder to give you an estimate on constructing such wall. That will be much more accurate and less time consuming than opinions given out here.

To get a estimate here is impossible.

Since the firewall is mandatory,and will be going in at the framing stage, you can't really extract its cost from the cost of framing as a whole (and why do you want and/or need to?) It's kind of like taking your house plans to a builder and asking, "how much for just the roof?"