The deeper the tub is for soaking, the more difficult that it is to use regularly for a shower. Stepping over a tall tub wall is a lot less safe than soaking in a shallow tub. Your wants are in opposition. Pick one or the other. Or, try to find the space to add. separate shower.

I love my MTI Andrea 6 tub so much I'm practically a paid spokesperson. Check out the series on the link, because I think several might work. In this line, and in many others, MTI will install a custom slotted, raised overflow for a very reasonable price that gives you an extra 2" of soak without extra depth. Their tubs are made to order in Atlanta, and they deliver in a couple of weeks, so very fast turn around. American made and employee-owned. My contractor said it was the easiest install he'd ever done, and mine was an undermount. Good luck with your project.

Is this for you?

Thank you all very much.

Sophie: Your points are good ones, but I don't have space for a separate tub and shower, and I want reasonable depth for widespread chronic pain. Maybe I will have to compromise with a less deep tub, such as the Archer mentioned.

badgergirl: I checked out the Archer when I was in a small city last week (I live in a very rural area). It's definitely a possibility. Questions: Does your daughter mind the lumbar "bump" when sliding down to submerse shoulders and arms? Is there any issue with the bump not hitting in the "right" place when sitting? Is the bottom "bubbly" surface of the tub easily cleaned? (I will definitely have grab bars all around.) Reviewers on Amazon say not to buy this tub because water collects around edge and onto floor - is this a problem?

MizLizzie: I searched for the MTI tub (I think your link was removed). I'm not sure a drop-in works well with a shower...? Also seems pricey for my budget. Looks beautiful, though, and I love the clean design.

cpartist: Yes, it's for me.

In addition to what's already been suggested, be aware that American Standard makes a very ugly overflow (big AS logo on it) with the slot on top that can be used with any brand of tub to get you a couple more inches of water level.

A standard 3 piece hall bath averages 17K. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that a ''costly'' single piece will even be a pimple in the overall budget if a properly constructed bathroom remodel. And read up on water proofing a tub shower properly, as that is what separates the boys from the men and the handymen from the bath contractors. Licenses and insurance, and permits are mandatory, of course.

Might you be better off with a walk in tub? At 75 I don't know if I'd chance a tub you have to climb into. Heck I'm only 62 and don't want to be climbing into tubs and I work out with a trainer 3x a week and climb stairs multiple x a day

writersblock: I was wondering if this was possible! Is AS the only overflow that's adaptable to any tub? (I even looked at those plastic thingies that cover the overflow outlet, but they don't seem promising.)

Sophie Wheeler: I must keep in mind your point about the price of a "costly" single piece. I have the vanity, mirror w sidelights, toilet, floor tile... just feel sooo uncertain about the tub-shower area. I can definitely appreciate what you say about water proofing correctly... I very much doubt it was correct for the current tub (a 72 x 42 whirlpool, never used). A respected GC is to handle overall finishing of the house, though this is a very rural area... hoping! Any thoughts about surround (Swanstone?) vs tile?

cpartist: Your suggestion is definitely sensible... the problem is that I have widespread chronic pain, and when I'm hurting badly, I need the support of a tub and the full comfort of hot water... having to sit up and spray water on myself won't do. However, I now realize I've been impractical in looking only at the deepest soaking tubs, so I'm looking for a compromise solution, with water depth improved as much as possible from the 9" I have in my current situation. I do use grab bars and have the arm strength to pull myself up from sitting; if strength goes, I'll have to give up my soaks but will still have the shower.

(I even looked at those plastic thingies that cover the overflow outlet, but they don't seem promising.)

No. I have one of those. It helps a bit, but they do leak and tend to fall off in the middle of a bath.

It's been a while since I looked, but last time I did the AS was the only one specifically made for that purpose. Of course, a lot of people just install a regular overflow cover with the slot on the top, but there are disadvantages to that, too.

ETA Sorry, those ones I first posted only work on AS tubs. The universal is as ugly as ever:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/American-Standard-Deep-Soak-Bath-Drain-in-Chrome-1640-305-002/202517974?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CTHD%7CG%7C0%7CG-VF-PLA-D26P-Plumbing%7C&gclid=CIrVyZ21kNUCFYhsfgodnnMLCg&gclsrc=aw.ds

Your suggestion is definitely sensible... the problem is that I have widespread chronic pain, and when I'm hurting badly, I need the support of a tub and the full comfort of hot water... having to sit up and spray water on myself won't do.

They are FULL TUBs that fill with water. Not just someplace you sit and spray yourself!

So my suggestion is sensible and smart for someone who has chronic pain and has trouble even pulling themselves up from a seated position. What you're looking for is an accident waiting to happen.

Please Google walk in tubs for lots of options.

Picture of a walk in tub filled with water.

These are similar in concept to Japanese soaking tubs and you get an immersive soaking experience. Home Depot carries soaking tubs. Don't get one from those TV commercials. I think Home Depot carries the American standard models.

Good luck!

Ann, my daughter finds the Archer tub very comfortable to sit back in. No complaints about the lumbar support. She bathes two young children in the tub everyday and does not have any trouble keeping the bottom clean. She has had no water collect on the edges and run down on the floor. The tub doesn't creak or make noises like some reviewers stated. Perhaps some of the reviewers did not have their tubs installed correctly. My daughter has had the tub now for 3.5 years and no issues what so ever.

I do think the suggestion for a walk in tub is a good idea. My girlfriends father had one and it was great for him.

I will never forget the night I was assisting my 80 year old mother when she wanted to take a bath and when it came time to get her out of the tub she couldn't pull herself up. I struggled very hard to get her up. I almost had to call the rescue squad.

It's better to be safe than sorry.

I've worked with multiple walk in tub installations. They are not designed to be tub showers. They can have hand showers, but a plumbing set up for a shower is very tricky. It will need a field applied tiling flange, and there will still be issues with the tub deck having overspray that will end up dripping on the bathroom floor, making water proofing the floor necessary too. And making the floor slippery.

I think you need to post a layout diagram of the home so that more creative layout suggestions can be made. Moving from such a large tub might allow for a separate walk in tub and shower if a bit more space can be squeezed out.

Many thanks to all for your help!

writersblock: Thank you for the link... even if it's ugly, more water depth is a plus. Would you please note the disadvantages of installing a regular overflow cover with the slot on the top?

cpartist: Thank you for enlightening me about walk-in tubs; obviously I've misunderstood them. I can now pull myself up from sitting without trouble, though I recognize that may not always be the case. I certainly agree your suggestion is sensible and smart, though I crave a lie-down tub.

homepro01: Thank you for the picture, a great aid in better understanding the walk-in concept, along with your comments, including the purchasing tip. It seems there is no way to immerse neck/shoulders/arms? (I now slide down in my 9" water depth to alternate full immersion of my upper and lower body... not ideal.)

badgergirl: I very much appreciate knowing your daughter's experience with the Archer, especially because she has used the tub for 3 1/2 years. I feel reassured about the water and cleaning issues mentioned and agree that any complaints about creaking and noises are likely due to incorrect installation. I also agree that a walk-in is apparently the most practical solution, yet I find it hard to give up on a regular tub, and as Sophie points out, I'd need space for a separate shower.

I helped my mother with baths too. There were no grab bars and she didn't have the strength to pull herself up anyway, but she could turn over to her hands and knees and stand from that position, all with help of course. The tub had a shower, but both my parents avoided it as much as possible, having lived so many years with only bathtubs available and enjoying a soak.

Sophie Wheeler: I'm grateful for your expertise. You make it clear that combining a walk-in tub and shower is definitely not advisable, and I want both.

I don't think I can add a drawing and am hoping this description helps:

The current tub-shower space is 70 x 42. A 6' whirlpool tub, never used, will be taken out - it was set into the walls about 1" at each end.

The bathroom is just under 6' (the 70" tub wall) x just over 7', with an additional bump-out 3' W x 2' D for the vanity, taken from a walk-in closet. The only space to expand would be beside the vanity for another 4' and I don't want to lose that whole side of the closet.

As you enter the bathroom (3' sliding door), the recessed vanity is at the immediate left and the toilet drain is at the wall on the right (behind that wall is a very small room for the water heater, water control, and stacked washer/dryer). The tub-shower space is along the wall opposite the entry (from a hall, across from the bedroom door).

The house as well as the bathroom is small, a 50's tract ranch. I like clean, very simple lines, so a flat front tub without flourishes would be my preference, but I will likely need to compromise on this, just as I need to compromise on water depth (initially, I was looking at only the deepest tubs, which would be okay right now, but not in the future).

One more point: If I am ever really incapacitated, I plan to move near my son on the other side of the country. He'd like me to move there now, but I feel I have more freedom in my rural setting.

Would you please note the disadvantages of installing a regular overflow cover with the slot on the top?

Well, first of all, they're meant for water to start draining out the overflow as soon as the water level reaches the plate, so they aren't designed to fit tightly enough to be waterproof. Even if you caulk one, water is likely to start seeping out sooner or later, and they will rust out faster if they are in water all the time, so that's another way for them to fail.

I'm in the middle of a remodel so I don't have personal experience . . . yet.

But, I did a fair amount of research, and I bought this bath drain/overflow which is being installed.

http://mountainplumbing.com/catalog/product/mountain-plumbing/Polypropylene-Cable-Operated-Bath-Waste-and-Overflow-Drain-Complete-Kit-22/3158

I hope it'll help strike a happy balance between a not too high tub and a deeper soak. Essentially, this has a plastic disk that can be installed in such a way as to give the bather extra soaking depth. According to the website:

Immerse Feature

• The new Mountain Plumbing "Immerse" features allows you to have the most luxurious bathing experience you've ever had! It now comes standard on all Mountain Plumbing Products cable drains, allowing you to indulge in a more lavish bathing experience. The expertly engineered overflow has been developed for your tub to accommodate a near additional 2 inches of water. To fully take advantage of the immerse feature, simply fill your tub to the height you have been familiar with. Once seated and relaxed in your tub, the amount of displaced water will rise by approximately 2 inches and remain at this level. This additional water depth added to your tub will allow for you to be fully submerged, covering up your bare shoulders, and resulting in a more luxurious bath. It is the ultimate in getting the most of your bathtub.

Forgot to write, a shout out to Cat_Mom where I first read about Mountain Plumbing in her details about her beautiful bathrooms.

Grannysmith, I don't understand that immerse feature. Looking at their site it appears to be just not running out the overflow as fast as usual. Is there more to it than that?

Yes, there's more. It seems to work on the same concept as turning the overflow drain upside down, as others have suggested, but the function is built into the unit and so would provide a good seal and avoid premature rusting, as might happen just turning the drain upside down.

Essentially, the plumber has the option of putting in the piece with holes that lets the water out (basically a plastic disc that gets installed into the overflow part) with the openings either in the lower half or the upper half - traditional or higher "immerse." With the holes facing up, the overflow drain is submerged during the bath, and water drains away only when it gets to the top of the drain, not from the bottom.

The only problem I see is that if the tub is filled to the top of the drain before you get in, once you climb in the water might rise enough to overflow the tub. That's why they say to fill it to a "height you have been familiar with." Then once you're in, the displaced water rises. and the tub is fuller - or you can add more water.

Thanks for the explanation, grannysmith.

writersblock and grannysmith18: Thanks so very much for the info! I hope you will have patience for a couple more questions: It seems my search should be limited to an alcove installation tub with integral tile flange (and I don't want jets). Would the mountain plumbing kit work with any of these or should my search be further limited in some way? Also, considering my age, the side height of the tub shouldn't be any higher than necessary to get decent water depth. My current tub-shower side is a comfortable 17" high but with only about 9" water depth. Do combination tub-shower units always have shallower water depth? If so, I could rule out this whole group in my search.

As far as I can tell (as I said, I'm not done with the renovation, but I have bought this) it should work very well.

I'm getting the same set-up: bath shower combination with the tub in an alcove. I'm getting a Toto 1525 tub (32 x 60 x 16 3/4). Some of the sites claim that the the water depth is 15 1/4 inches, but I don't believe it - maybe there's another overflow valve that operates the same way as the Mountain Plumbing one I'm getting, and that's what they're using to get the water depth.

BTW, I hope I used the correct link before - I'm getting this model number BDR20S22 Then you have to select the finish, of course, and it comes in either PVC (which mine is) or solid brass, which is required by some codes, and some people prefer it. My plumber said this would be fine for me, but check with your own.

grannysmith18: Please let me know how the overflow works when you get it in. Your link did work. I am going to check out the Toto tub. Thanks!