This is coming from someone who doesn't care about official names, but I adore Optimaras. They're cheap, they're hardy, and sometimes you can find one that is super healthy.

All of mine survived my beginner days and I couldn't be happier (my icon is an Optimara that I named Andromeda). I only have two "fancy" ones from a local garden place (named Tinkerbell and Natalia... I can sixth-sense some pros cringing), and I love those too, but I'm a little bit of an Optimara fangirl.

Do whatcha want, honestly. As long as they're healthy, it's all good. Pick the stuff you like and dismiss the rest. :o)

Isn't it funny the way we connect with things? Everyone has a story about something and I love hearing them. Rosie

It really depends on what you want to collect. Optimaras are great, heavy bloomers and will grow well in less than ideal light. They are a wonderful place for beginners to start for those reasons, and because you don't have to mail order them. Some of mine are decades old, but I only have a few of them. There are simply so MANY other varieties out there and by comparison, Optimaras do not have much variety. But as mentioned they are slowly broadening their offerings.

As mentioned, sources like Ebay (go look!), Lyndon Lyons, the Violet Barn, Etsy, trading with friends here or on Facebook, Bloomlovers, Pat Hancock's Buckeyes, etc give one so many more sources for a far larger choice in flowers, variegated leaves, sizes, shapes, etc. But as you venture out into fancier hybrids they aren't all as hardy as Optimaras and their care may be a lot trickier. Their light requirements or humidity needs much higher, etc.

Also another great source for a ton more variety in African Violets (and gesneriads in general) is to look up where the closest local AVSA club is in your area. Then go to a meeting! Even if it's a long drive, it will be worth it, trust me. You will see so many plants you never knew existed before, learn about their culture, and people will gladly give you free leaves to try. Then you may also learn about growing primulinas, streptocarpus, kohleria, episcia, sinningia, and so many other African violet relatives. It's a whole new world waiting for you beyond Optimara.

Couldn't have said it better myself! I love my new AV Club! Rosie

Still learning here. I intend to continue picking up Optimara's as long as I still have room under the lights. Just bought two more this weekend.

I would join or at least attend a meeting of an AV club if there were any in this neck of the woods. There are quite a few "gardening" groups to be found but so far, none just for AV's.

I didn't find my AV Club until I went to the Ann Arbor African Violet Show and Sale. They were handing out flyers for 2 different Clubs I could join. One was in Bloomfield I think. A lot farther away. So I joined mine and I am soooo happy about it!!! Hope you find one eventually! Rosie

There's a list of AVSA affiliated clubs on the avsa.org website. There's usually (but not always) at least one in most states and in some cases several. But not always. I may be moving up to NC and there is only /one/ club in the entire state the last time I looked. Ugh. And of course no where near where we are looking to move. Figures. Thankfully there is internet! ;)

Awww Hyn, too bad,,,,but at least you have us!!! Rosie

Yep, already checked on AV clubs in North Florida and South Georgia. Nothing within reasonable driving distance.

I just looked up my area and found none in either North or South Carolina. I sent an email to AVSA asking them if this was correct and got an answer back from Amy confirming none.

Well Jeff, I have two recommendations: 1) move 2) you could try to start a club, or you'll just have to struggle through with us.

So sorry for all of you. Well, at least you still have us!!!!! Rosie

My local club meets on Wednesday or Thursday at 11am. It is selecting for retired people...

You mean only retired people can join? Rosie

I think what Amy means, Rosie, is that on average only retired folks could meet at that time of day, so perhaps it was chosen to keep the group within the demographics it is comfortable with - no young whippersnappers with their bright ideas, LOL.

OTOH, I see lots of things I would like to participate in like book clubs and art lessons - but if they take place during the day Mon-Fri, I'm at work and can't attend. I don't think those were set up at those times just to exclude working people although that is the effect, but maybe the thought was to give those with nothing regular in their daily life something to do and someplace to go. It just works out to be an exclusion. I used to drive 70 miles one way after work to attend evening rose society meetings for years but I'm too old now to make those after dark drives home again so I gave it up. I've never found any AV clubs within any reasonable driving distance from my home here at the tip of the Mitten. The only AV clubs I've ever been able to find were all clustered in southern Michigan close to the large metropolitan areas. There just aren't many opportunities for specialized plant clubs when you live in the north so that's why on line forums (and on line vendors) are such an important thing for me. Optimara's are OK, but I'd hate to have limited my AV collection to only those.

Our club is not affiliated with the AVSA as yet so the organization does not know of our existence. Perhaps there are similar groups flying under the radar in other areas of the country. How to find them is the problem if they do exist. I located people around me via FB and thus found my way to the group. Our founder contacted AVSA for a member list in the central Indiana area and wrote a letter to each person wondering if he/she would be interested in a club. Since I'm not a member, I missed out on that but luckily already knew people.

BTW, our group meets on a Sunday afternoon as we felt it was the best day to accommodate most members.

Terri

Rosie, AnneCecilia is correct. The time of the meeting excludes young people because most young people work.

Amy's club reminds me of what I call "the old lady" African violet clubs of yesteryear. One Brat forum member told us of her first AV club back in the 1950's. Meetings were held in the mornings, the women dressed up, and men were not allowed. I don't believe her group was an exception and no doubt some of these practices contributed to the unfortunate view that AV's were to be grown by women and elderly ones in particular.

Terrilou, I remember those...that was my first view of AV clubs. It was more like a quilting circle for the ladies:)

There probably weren't all that many men interested in growing AV's in those days anyway. They probably caused more trouble than they were worth when they did attend! If I found a club locally today, I would hope they would let me attend! Somehow the idea of spending a couple hours with a bunch of women doesn't sound all that bad!

Jeff, I'm certain you would be welcome! There are men in our group; unfortunately, one has a problem with Sunday meetings, and a couple others live at quite a distance and would have to drive a couple of hours. One man is fairly regular and is often our sole male but he gives each of us gals a hug so I guess he doesn't mind being with a bunch of women! After all, it's about the plants.

Oooh, I suppose that means that even the NC club I had located a while back may have folded and is no longer active. Ah well. For the time being we are temp moving to my MiL's house north of Atlanta so I can continue to go to my local AVSA club meetings this autumn down that way, even if it's a long drive. They are a great group and meet on Saturdays so most people can make it, young or older.

As Terri mentioned, not all plant groups are officially affiliated with a national organization. Some may not see the need for it. Others may be very small groups with very limited funds who find it necessary or desirable to direct what limited funds they may have toward other things. Searching via google or Facebook may help one uncover such unaffiliated societies.

Then, too, as has been mentioned, one can always try to start a local society in one's city/county. How do you think all those current societies came to exist in the first place? Someone had to get the ball rolling! ;-D My plant tastes are extremely eclectic. As a result, I have come in contact via the Internet with quite a diverse array of folks across this country and others. One of my areas of interest is carnivorous plants. There are some folks I know of in Oregon who, in the past couple of years, have formed their own informal carnivous plant society. Their group consists of roughly a dozen or so individuals, give or take, who get together once a month at a local pub. They bring plants for "show and tell" (as well as trade), discuss their success and failures with certain plants, and simply enjoy some time socializing with like minded people. There isn't any reason such social groups can't be founded elsewhere.

Btw, before I forget yet again ... Aegis, that Optimara Modesty is gorgeous! Never see anything like that at my local BBSs.

It has been suggested to me to start a local club. But here's the problem with that - I've never, ever been to any kind of a club meeting, so I don't have the foggiest idea of what even goes on at one. So how in the world could I ever consider starting one? "Hey, let's get together and stare at each other while we figure out what we're suppose to be doing here. Cool, let's trade a few leaves....now what do we do? Yup, I have racks for my plants also. Gee this way fun. See ya next month. Bye." If there was a club even remotely close by I would be there in a heart beat just to see what goes on if nothing else. But there are none. :(

Pretty funny Vikki! Certainly a scenario that at one time I would have imagined for a African Violet club meeting. At least thats what I would have thought! Now, I have gotten interested in some of the intricacies of raising AV's and I would definitely like to sit down over a cup of coffee or something stronger and discuss some of the more peculiar aspects of these things.

I am grateful for this forum and a couple others. Without them, I don't think I'd have any plants left alive!

That part is easy. The AVSA or /anyone/ really could make suggestions of what to do at meetings. Usually there's a monthly mini 'show' to show off whatever you have blooming (not just African violets but also other gesneriads), and there's an introduction of any new members and any questions they have. Clubs go over minutes for the last meetings and whatever is coming up in future meetings, briefly.

There's usually a demo of some kind for things like repotting, dealing with long necks, starting leaves, planting terrariums, how to grow and groom for showing, hybridizing, seed storage or sowing, etc. These are given by the club members themselves or sometimes a guest speaker may come, if possible. Or you could show a webinar from the Gesneriad Society, or a collection of videos on various topics, or a Power Point style presentation on someone's trip to a show, a tropical vacation where they saw species in the wild, whatever.

Some clubs also do some crafts. How to make your own pinch pots and get them fired, or pottery painting, or meet at local greenhouses or botanical gardens, or have a guest painter come and teach a class on painting flowers, etc. It really depends on what you want to do and keep things mixed up so it stays fun.

If you are an AVSA affiliate club, or a member of the Gesneriad Society, there will be some basic structures to follow. But if you decide to start your own club, you can keep it as loose as you like. However, if you collect any kind of dues, there are various legal restrictions that kick into play where people like the AVSA are handy. They also handle insurance coverage very cheaply should anyone get injured at your meetings or shows. I think ours costs something like $79 a year so that's dirt cheap.

I bought my first African Violet in 1995. It wasn't until 1997 that I could really get going and buy them off the internet, which was still a fairly young concept. Of course, in the beginning it was Optimara violets which I could find readily. Those hooked me. Then I bought offline, some of the more "elite" reds and variegated varieties, some of which were utterly foliage decoration because they were sold when they were too immature.

Flash forward a couple decades and I kept a handful of Optimara in my work space and home, never venturing back to the collection I'd gained through the internet all those years prior. Why did I keep Optimara when a.) there were more "elite" varieties available?, and b.) the company transitioned away from selling identified (tagged) varieties in stores? Probably because as someone else mentioned more than a few of those "elite" cultivars do nothing. So, between 1997 and 2017 I had NO varieties beyond what Optimara sold. Why wait 2 years on an African Violet to bloom when I can be assured of proliferation of blooms and growth? If you buy from Selective Gardener, and have a discerning eye at the big box stores, you can have identified Optimaras . . .

I tend to focus on vintage cultivars and the newer Optimara varieties. I love how some people claim that Optimara are "ho-hum" because they're readily available. Really? They must not be trying to find "Scorpio," "Ellen," or "Atlanta!" Optimara produced some varieties which are nearly impossible to find and classic! Give me an Optimara any day. I'll set it right beside my vintage "Blue Girl" and watch them both bloom time and time again while the "serious" hobbyist is trying to adjust pH and LED bulbs to get their precious little "Anne" (they paid too much for, by the way) to even grow leaves! I do like some of Lyndon Lyons varieties. Harmony violets are also quite pretty, but I've grown none of them so far.

I agree, after 21 years of growing AVs, that snobbery is afoot with the expressed dislike of Optimaras. Of course, I also find the AVSA intolerable for its snobbery, so much so that I won't join, won't show, and won't participate with anything they sponsor. A fairly well-known hybridizer who is an officer with them has been excessively rude on social media, so until AVSA can start being more egalitarian and using contemporary methods of attribution, I won't have anything to do with them. After all, they'd scoff at my Optimara's right? (Picture of "Smoky Mountain"

attached.) If anything, I think it's a little bit of envy. (Optimara invented the "stik-tite" bloom, making it so that AVs could be shipped without dropping blooms.) People can chock it up to some "refined taste" in African Violets but most of the variegated foliage I've seen looks sickly (pasty, yellow), and the blooms on some of these "elite" varieties sure don't look as impressive as Optimara's Space Violets. So, I'm an Optimara fan. Really, I don't like it any other way.

I like my Optimaras and I love my Russian NOIDs. I am not putting down the more modern varieties because I think many of them are very beautiful also. But to me, turning one's nose up at something because it is common or not labelled is an affront to God who made them beautiful for everyone.

Those who chase after rare varieties, or who have to have as many violets as possible, I am not criticizing. If it makes you happy, by all means be happy. Some of those unusual varieties are beautiful. I have nothing against shows, whatever makes you happy.

Sign up for fresh flower alerts at:

myViolet.com/freshviolets3.php

No one said they were worthless. Please read all the comments above and you will understand why we prefer not to have them in many trades or round robins. If you sell or show your plants you HAVE to have the correct name, and with the Optimaras you're never sure if the name was guessed at, and there in lies the problem. Now I have seen trades etc that state that the older, well out of production Optimaras are fine, because back then they were labeled, and, in general, are harder to find. Personally I would rather not get a box full of leaves that I could simply go to Lowe's and get. With these trades, I'm trying to build my collection with plants that aren't readily available. I might add that I've been in trades where Optimaras were included and found the box full of solid colored pink and blue, solid green leaves of "I think I got the name right because it matched the picture" plants. If you want all Optimaras, there are trades where it's only Optimaras. There are a couple if people here who would love to do an all Optimara trade with you.

No one said they were worthless. Please read

Vikki, I have not implied that anyone said that, but did you happen to read the title of this thread? And one person replied to the OP and HAS said that Optimaras were less desirable and used those very words.

I wonder if anyone would sponsor a Round Robin for JUST Optimaras??? I have never heard of one happening, but hey,,,,,why not? Maybe someone has some vintage??? Who knows??? Could work!

As far as the Opt. being "less desirable", it has more to do with unlabeled availability at the big box stores (and thereby guessing the name) than it has to do with the "beauty of the breed". No arguing about it, they are beautiful, they have come a long way since back in the day, and we have to remember,,,,not everyone can order from Optimara just to get the labels on them.

And I still say shame on Optimara for adopting a "no label for BB store" policy. Mass produced printed labels for companies DON'T cost that much. I would rather pay 50 cents more for the violet which would more than cover the cost of a printed label, than not have a tag. Oh they have their reasons for it, mix ups, etc to which I say HOGWASH!) but sheese, can you just see Levi Jeans not labeling THEIR PRODUCT???? Or Rubbermaid? Or Tupperware??? I could go on!!! AND the American public would just stop buying the product!!!!

Maybe if no one bought Optimara Violets/products they would listen? Levi would,,so would any other company!!! No sales,,,,no money,,,,no company. Oh yes they would listen. But we don't do that. We want violets on any terms. Sad. And yes,,,,that means me also. BUT I won't order from the company just for a tag. The ones I love I can get from BB stores and trading.

Seems other companies that are NOT as big as Optimara/Holtkamp don't have a problem with labels!!! BUT as everyone knows, that is my soapbox and I will now get down.

So available BB store Optimara's have no labels. There are a few that are undeniable and CAN be named. But the less notable ones are the "bone of contention" for trading. And I understand that. There are too many that are pretty similar, so it ends up to be your version of pink? or mine? And who is right?

Until everyone either pays to order from the company proper,,,, or Optimara finally decides to label their product, here we are. And the debate will go on.

I have some Optimaras. I get them from the BB stores around here (Lowe's and Meijer) or from trading. And I think they are worth having, and worth trading for. Heck I know someone who wants to collect them ALL! (good luck to her!)

But again, I still don't know how to have a RR and include Optimara's, without being specific about which ones can and cannot be included!!!! I am not a violet/plant snob but I WILL stand on principle. Rosie

The Facebook round robin group featured an Optimara only RR last year. There were quite a few participants and one could include leaves with a "best guess" label. I don't know if one is planned for this year.

Terri

Hi Terri! How ya doin'? That is a great idea to include a "best guess" label! You know,,,,they could even do that with a regular RR. As long as it is just a guess,,,,,well, then you get what you get! Great idea! Thanks! Too bad I am not on Facebook!!! Rosie

Hi, It is very nice that Macropodus77 found this thread and revived it! The photo of Smoky Mountains is great.

I have heard about some of the points mentioned about the AVSA by Macro77 but I have no personal knowledge or experience.

I can relate to much Macro wrote about why grow Opti's, especially at work. Why not?l could pick up a handful of lovely AVs on my lunch break to decorate the rows of generic cubicles.

I first read about the AVSA in 1973. They fid not want Holtkamp to be part of the AVSA because they were becoming a commercial mass market producer. The AVSA wanted to support individual small hybridizers.

The Lyndon Lyon company supported the Holtkamp company.

Back in the 1970's the AVSA wanted to be non commercial.

Optimaras grow differently. Joanne

Long petioles-

Apologizing for this beginner question, but are long petioles always the function of light or do some varieties just have longer petioles than others?

Some varieties do have naturally longer petioles than others.

Lack of adequate light will, however, extend petioles from their normal and natural length ...

Greetings to all. I grow a few Optimaras but mostly named varieties. Since Optimaras were the first violets I grew for many years in natural light, I like to keep a few around. Like others I am dissapointed that Holtkamp stopped labeling them. Their website does help identify some varieties, though. I am currently growing Acadia, myDarling, Modesty, and an unnamed white and pink thumbprint variety. The unnamed one bloomed heavily for weeks in natural light with turning it and some light fertilizer. Would like to have the thumbprint bicolor be consistant through the year instead of mostly white in the winter and mostly colored flowers in the summer. But that is the nature of the TP trait, as it is temperature sensitive. Moreover, does anyone growing the "myViolet" series notice changes in the flower pigment expression through the year or are they fairly constant?

Alabama,

Well, my one MyViolet looked fine on its second bloom, photo above.

I had a few O TPs in pink that were mostly stable. But also a few from the artist's named series in the blue-violet range that were hit or miss.

I also got several light blue and white splotchy bi colors one season. They were messy looking. The shapes of blooms and colors on the same plant were all over the place. It looked like a bad haircut.

Joanne

I like some of the Optimara novelties, unfortunately I can't justify 12.00 for a leaf set from SelectiveGardener before shipping. I expect a chimera starter when approaching those prices! Moreover, they labeled violets in the past and didn't go out of business. It may be cheaper without the labels, but up to three times the retail price for a named plant is not reasonable to me. I second whoever mentioned 0.50 more for the a named plant as an option for retailers. I will try to find them from a third party before ordering direct from Optimara. I agree that several of their bicolors are unstable. MyDarling seems to grow in the same manner for me, with elongated petioles in natural light.

alabamaav that is me that mentioned it. You're right they did label them in the past and they only moved forward and got bigger. Rosie

Alabama,

I always wanted to grow Acadia. But it is not in production. Thanks for letting me know you got MyDarling. The deep blue and dark leaves are striking.

I have Modesty, Affection.

Louisana, a light ruffled pink was pretty. I gave it to a club friend along with bi color reds, TP pinks. Some of the painters.

In my area, unnamed violets that come in Opti pots cost from $4 to $6.

There are also lesser quality look-alikes in unlabelled pots for $1 less but those tend to have suckers

Joanne

I asked them why they stopped labeling. They said it was partly because they had too many complaints about the names not matching the plants. Sometimes due to a mix up on their end, but mire often than not, people would pull the stick to read the name and than stick it back into the wrong pit. So why not stick the name on the wrapper? The other reason, she said, was that only a small portion of their customers even cared if it had a name or not, so for the few who do, they created their identification web site. I think what it really comes down to is $$$$ on their end.

Yep, that is their story. Now,,,,imagine if all the other plant growing companies (whether for violets, shrubs or trees did that???) hmmmmm,,,,,exactly my point. To me that is a crock of an excuse. They should read the AV forums and groups to see "if customers care". AND if they label, and ship out,,,,then if a tag gets lost that would be the time to use their identification site!!!! Rosie

PS. I think I had better quit while I am still welcome here.

Oh, Rosie, you are such a big fan of Optimara, you brought back many happy memories for many here.

The labeling on their pots is a bit ironic, though. The label says "Collector series" but serious collectors are interested in knowing the names! People who only want a disposable plant would not normally collect them, they usually throw them away when the blooms have finished. I do like the myViolet.com site and many of their varieties. Acadia's leaves look pale under the LED lights. They appear to be too intense for it. Moreover, I only wish Optimara cared enough about collectors to offer named plants as a slightly more expensive option at the retail level. That way the people who want a fresh living inexpensive bouquet and collectors can both get what they want at a reasonable price. Thus, I will concentrate on growing mostly named violets from other hybridizers and the species since Optimara has different priorities and is unlikely to change. Diplotricha came into bloom recently for the first time and I like it. Nice dark green leaves contrast with pale flowers!

Thanks for the support Joanne, I do love Optimara violets. It is just the companies policy I think is wrong. I will continue to grow my favorites, hope I can find my "old friends" that I am looking for, and try to just be happy with that. Rosie

I think that it should be acknowledged that Optimara services a somewhat different market than most AV suppliers.

In addition to collectors, who want named plants, they also service the general public, who likely don't want to pay for named plants.

Just like the many retail purchases of Moth Orchid, Primrose, various Philodendrons, Peace Lillies, Prayer plants, and Pothos, ... most who purchase AV's from retail outlets don't care if the plant has a tag or not.

Discussions with Optimara representatives provided the rationale that, though they initailly labed their retail plants, as their retail business grew, they began to experience complaints that plants were being incorrectly tagged. Some of this occurred at their end, some as the plants were setup in retail outlets, ... and, ultimately, they decided that the best solution was to no longer label their retail plants.

OTOH, some of the best shipped plants I've received have been from Selective Gardener. Almost no other vendor ships fully mature plants. They are a little pricey ... but you get good, mature, labeled, pest-free plants. And a lot of the more distinctive and pricier plants, you can occasionally find at your local outlet. Optimara will even send you a heads-up on when new plants are due to arrive, so that you can get the pick of freshly shipped plants.

I was disappointed when Optimara stopped labeling their retail plants also, ... but I ultimately realized that none of the other vendors sold tagged retail plants either.

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