What did she "pay" ... well, "agree to pay" for her new car when she bought it two years ago? And how much has she paid over all of those months between then and now? And how much does she still owe? If she goes to buy a new one, how much will the dealer allow her as trade-in on her current car (with the less-than-attractive side) as reduction in price of the new one? She'll be astonished at the amount that the dealer will allow her as trade-in on her car with the caved-in side when she goes to buy her new car. I'll bet that it'll be less than she still owes, probably quite a bit less. So that, if the new car's price may be, say, $18,000. ... ... she may end up owing something like $22,000. on her new loan. On the new car that she paid $18,000. for ... ... but now, even if only a week after she bought it, and without a mark on it, would be worth probably about $14,000. Two thirds of what she owes? Not my idea of a good time! Would she listen if you drew a set of patterns for her, showing (with approximate sizes relative to dollar amounts), of what she paid for her current car, how much she's paid over the 24 months, how much she still owes, how much difference there is between her cost, what she's paid, what it's "worth" now as allowance toward an upgrade, etc. And showing how she's paying so much monthly on her student loan, so much monthly on her car loan, splitting those two payments into principal repayment and interest components, running the interest stream off the edge of the paper, as lost. So - she's working about half of her time monthly for ... ... nothing. But - currently, she's not working, is she? So how does she make car payments? How long before they may repossess it ... ... leaving her walking. Which wouldn't happen if the loan was all liquidated. Working much of her time - to pay someone else rent for the use of their money. And as long as she uses other folks' money ... she'll have to pay rent on it. Which is money that could have stayed in her pocket, had she driven the nearly new car (with the stove-in side) longer ... ... until she's paid off all of the money that she'd borrowed to buy it. Which would mean that the amount that she would be allowed at trade-in would be all hers, instead of mostly (or all - or maybe even more than all) going to pay off the loan that she still owes on the current car. Which would mean that the amount that she would have to borrow on the new car would be much lower. So - if she were paying the same amount per month ... the loan would be paid off in short order. Then she could keep putting that amount away (or most of it) to pay off her student loan faster. Could you draw comparable sized boxes to the amount of value that each item is, with labels, and the proportion of it that's hers, etc.? When we get stuck in a snow bank, we can do a lot of spinning wheels back and forth, with little result. Except burning a lot of gas. Wear and tear on tires. Wasting time. And, if we're not careful, when using an automatic transmission, burning up the transmission. And getting where? Nowhere! And getting not just ourselves, but people sitting in the car with us, more than likely, somewhat bent out of shape with irritability. Smells a lot like this situation, doesn't it? Just some thoughts. Or ... would you call it my whine? ole joyful

My brother and I moved swiftly and surely to isolate our mother's assets when it became clear her failing health would preclude her independent life style. That was 2 1/2 years ago. She has a revocable trust now. Assets are protected, we have powers of attorney, and the chaos that follows any death will be minimized. She has "gifted" every year since her health "crashed and burned". Her home has been emptied of its contents and her assets have been directed to its maintenance. I can only tell you, that having an elderly, frail, mentally failing parent in your home and in your care is no day at the beach. To be perfectly honest, I hate the encroachment on my personal freedom. But she is my mother, she needs my help, and who better than I to see she is well cared for, indulged, given mental stimulation on a daily basis? "Baby boomers" need to pay attention to this issue... , laws governing "look back" and estate planning change every month/year; you need to pay attention to politics! "Look back" for Mum had we tried to put our names on the deed to her home in 2003 was 3 years. With the trust it was reduced to 7 mos.. Get thee to a lawyer specializing in ELDER LAW and estate planning, ASAP. Loop holes on inheritance and the transfer of potentially valuable real estate are being closed routinely, even as we're being told that we should reduce our expectation of social security and Medicare. Smarten up! move now and isolate the assets. You'll be glad you did.

I don't feel obligated to help my 40YO son get out of his debt problems. I've done it before and he still owes me for that. Plus he's living in a house that I bought and he promised to make payments on till he's paid me back and I have not seen a payment in four months now, though he's promised to make one at the end of this month. I think I've gone above and beyond the call, already. His debt problems have put a wedge between him and us. He is disappointed in us because we refused to help him this time. We think it is enough that he gets to live in a house we own and not make payments for four months. In a way, we HAVE loaned him money because he has the money that, had he been renting, he would've had to pay to his landlord. We are disappointed in him, for getting himself in this situation to begin with, for expecting us to come thundering to his aid now that he's gone so far beyond the help that our sage advice would've been to him, had he expressed any interest in hearing it earlier, and for subjecting us to harrassment from his creditors. The one creditor that we were having so much trouble with, I did take that advice and told the man on the other end of the line that if I received one more call from them I'd report them. I never received another call and a week later they repo-d his pick-up, which DS had entrusted to a friend who had promised to make the payments and then didn't. There was another creditor who was making daily calls, using a recording. They have now stopped as well, we don't know if they finally gave up or if DS has taken care of them. The thing that bothers me the most about this whole thing is DS' resentment towards us for not just happily turning over to him the money that we have busted our chops to earn and to manage carefully all our lives -- money that we may very well need desperately before our lives are over -- as if he has a "right" to it. We are in our 60's. But I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that, ten years ago, DH, after 30+ years of working as a welder, had to go on Disability. During that time when he hadn't been approved yet, and when he couldn't work, we were very worried. There was no money coming in and we did not have insurance. We had a small amount of savings and I was looking for a job. DS at this time told us we didn't have anything to worry about -- he said, "You could always sell your house." That's how HE thundered to OUR aid.

Good for you Sunflower! I've been thinking about your situation over the past few days, and had an epiphany a few minutes ago, and wondered if that might apply. You seem like a sensible and reasonably mature (though young - under 30) person who's goal-oriented. All good. And you talked about moving forward with your relationship -- and I get that. Moving forward in a relationship is generally what we like to do. It's the normal and logical progression of life: High school, some high school boyfriends, college, some college boyfriends, graduate, get a job, set up life with an apartment, career, more boyfriends. Then you find a BF you especially like who especially likes you, and you move forward -- maybe live together, then get married. Then you have kids, raise a happy family, etc., etc. You spoke of moving in together as 'moving forward', and I'm wondering if in your mind, is somehow is. Like it's 'advancing to the next stage of life' -- moving your game piece forward, or 'growing up' another degree. And in a sense, it is. It is moving to another stage of life. But viewing it from that angle makes it sound like it's automatically a good thing -- a step ahead, a move forward. And in reality, it isn't at all! (Does the teen mother who marries her high school baby daddy somehow 'win' by going through her step-forwards quickly?) It certainly can be a move forward -- with the right guy at the right time in the right circumstances. But it can be every bit as much the learning and growing experience to say "No" as it is to say OK and move in together. Laying out your ground rules -- the way you did by specifying that he had to get his finances in order -- That's a very empowering thing you did! If it turns out we were all wrong and he is a reponsible guy, then he'll respect you for taking a stance now. And if he's a weak link, that'll become evident too, and probably a bit sooner now. You're doing the right thing Sunflower! And that's really a step forward.