Any tips for owner/builder who is not doing the work themselves?

6 years ago

Hi everyone,

We built a home 6 years ago as owner/builder. We subbed out all of the work BUT made a lot of mistakes, unfortunately. I have learned a lot since then. Now it seems we may be moving and building again. We are going to do the same thing, be owner/builder and sub out the work. However, we are on a budget. I would love any tips from those of you who have built in this fashion (not doing the actual work yourselves), and any helpful advice that you have learned along the way. Thanks so much!

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6 years ago

last modified: 6 years ago

You may not make the same mistakes you made on your first build, but rest assured, you will make new ones.

At least one mistake will have a significant negative impact on the build and budget. Because that's building. Ask any 55 year old builder about his job site, and he will tell you the same thing. But, by the time he got to that stage of life and experience, he was done making the truly big mistakes, and is whittling his way down the list of the small ones. Mistakes are solved by not playing the blame game. You work as a team to figure out the win.

It is a continual learning process, and you have to listen to the trades that know more than you do. Unfortunately, if a dispute arises, you also have to listen to two who think that their way is the only right way. That's when you get to cut the baby in two and make the Solomonic decision. And you have to own it if you make the wrong decision.

Over communicate and you will still under communicate. Shared text streams for everyone remotely associated with the build. For minor decisions or scheduling purposes only. Shared emails as well for actual documentation. A dozen copies of the plans, laminated and weather proof. Hung in prominent spots, with the latest revisions in permanent color coded marker. If you have a specialized detail, use a picture to communicate it. A diagram. A chart. A printed out Houzz pic.

Read ALL of the manufacturer's installation instructions for Every. Single. Product. used on your site. And print them out for each trade as well, and give them to them well ahead of time. English and Spanish. Anything to do with keeping the weather out of hour home, you'd better understand what you read as well. Even if it delays the project, make sure those instructions are followed.

And, an extra large porta potty that is emptied more frequently than you think necessary, and policed for adequate paper and cleanliness. If you find it unpleasant, they will too. If you are too good to play mama and Lysol out the occasional portapotty in order to keep the project moving, then you aren't GC material. You have to be willing to do the worst job on the site. Doesn't mean you always do it. But, you have to be willing.

Giant coolers of water and ice. A shady spot and a fan. The occasional milestone chocolate and pizza for jobs well done. Subs are human, and building is hot sweaty work in summer.

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Comments (9)

cpartist
6 years ago
Depending on the area, you may have a harder time now than 6 years ago. Why?

Because six years ago, the trades were begging for work as they were just coming out of the recession. Nowadays, in most areas the trades have more work than they can finish and the best ones will be working with a builder or a GC who feeds them continual work and not someone who's a one off.

In most cases the ones who will be available are probably available because their work isn't up to top standards. Something to think about.
just_janni
6 years ago
Agree that you are going to have a hard time. Subs are busy working for builders and people they know. Schedules are far out, and if someone is available right away or interested in working with a small guy - you have to wonder what's wrong with them. Costs are WAY up, too.

It's not a buyers market... and it is only harder for the smaller guy...
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I am a woman and the GC on our house. We had a GC to start, but ended up being our own. You are capable of doing it, it's more a matter of whether you really want to once you know more about it. Live Wire Oak's comments were spot on. If you know good subs, are willing to spend a lot of time researching the correct way things should be done and have a lot of time to babysit and enough assertiveness to stay on subs, you will be successful. You will also spend more money than you think - you will find out the best way to do things and want to go that route for more $ and you won't get all the same price breaks GC's get. I do not work outside the home and do not have young children, have the help of my parents and husband, yet am very busy, exhausted and stressed. You have to be up early and at the site to make sure deliveries are correct, workers have shown up and that they are doing a good job. You have to line up the next subs and be organized, but at the same time flexible. There will be delays due to weather, in material delivery, in subs (sickness, "emergency jobs", injury, etc.) If you are very organized that is good, but you must be just as good at being flexible. If one sub can't make it, can you have a different sub come in earlier without messing things up? For instance, my original GC wanted to keep the inside of the house on schedule so wanted insulation and drywall to go up before the exterior brick was installed and before heat was in (winter time). We said no, which was one reason we parted ways. If you can get a really good GC (which was hard in our small town), you can turn over all these types of issues to them. We got the best in our small town, but that is relative when there is not much competition. We like the control we have over the project now, but things have taken a lot longer than if we had a GC throughout the whole project. The good subs are busy, many of them for GCs, so we are a side job that they work in. Therefore we have to be flexible, but we are almost two years into the build and we aren't done. We had to wait six months for a chimney leak to be fixed (weather dependent) and then for the mason to work us in to fix it when weather allowed. If we had to do it again, we would definitely prefer a competent GC vs doing it ourselves - some days. :-) Some days the fee is worth it - it's hard enough just keeping up with appliance, cabinet, trim, flooring, paint choices, let alone the actual building process. Other days there is a feeling of accomplishment that yes, I can do this. To address some things more specifically: As far as knowing how things should be done, it's true you don't have to know everything, but you must know enough to make sure you have a competant GC/Subs and inspector. For instance, we had three really important things that our GC did not ensure was done, nor did our building inspector. 1) Of all our small town masons, only one knew how to put in weep holes and that it was necessary. Although building code required it, in our small town the inspectors did not enforce it. Our GC didn't even know it was code until I brought it to his attention. 2) Our foundation is concrete block. We are built into a hill. We did not know until later that the concrete blocks were supposed to have rebar attached to the footer and then cement poured in every 4 feet. When we became our own GC and had the perimeter drain redone, the structural engineer for that job noted the pressure against the blocks and asked about reinforcement. It cost an arm and a leg to fix it. When we talked to the inspector, he said rebar and cement was only required if you had uneven backfill and/or the blocks are over 5 feet high. Our GC did not tell the inspector where the backfill was going to be ahead of time and not until we realized later that we had too much pressure on one foundation wall section, did we have to pay for a "retrofit" to install rebar and cement. It however isn't as good because the rebar is not attached to the footer. This is an example of needing to know what should be done and not relying on inspectors (or our GC for that matter). 3) It ended up our bricked chimney had a massive leak from the mason laying the brick in hot weather, without pre-wetting the brick, so the mortar flash dried creating small cracks. He also didn't install thru the wall flashing. The blueprint called for thru the wall flashing around windows and on the chimney. The GC did not tell our masons to do this. When I called the mason back to come do the chimney because of leaking, he said just spray a sealant on it - he had never done thru the wall flashing. We ended up having to call in a commercial mason to install thru the wall flashing. All of these things were learned AFTER we became the GC and read the blueprints. (You need to know how to read them and interpret them.) In addition, all these things were inspected and passed by our building inspector. You cannot rely on your inspector - you must know it. When we talked to our inspector about these issues, he said his job is to enforce code that his county is enforcing. These are MINIMUM standards - not best practices. Regarding a loan, we fortunately have a loan through Farm Credit and they allow owners to be their own GC, but most banks do not. In addition, we don't have a separate construction loan. It was a regular mortgage loan that incorporated the construction part. Therefore we don't technically have a time limit, but we do have to make progress and keep them informed of the progress. Most banks have a 1 year limit, which unless you have everyone lined up and contracted and will not change your mind on anything substantial during the build, it may be possible, but it will be hard if you are doing it all yourself. Also, you do have to be assertive, be willing to fire subs if they are doing a poor job and basically babysit - especially if they quoted by the hour then by the job. However, sometimes when they quote by the job, they cut corners, so you have to watch that too. Also, some subs require payment right away (down payment, then when the job is over). In our small town, sometimes they want money early. It can be stressful coming up with money ahead of time before getting the next draw from the bank. Plus you have to make sure they sign lien waivers when work is done so you don't have liens put against your house by unscrupulous people. You must also remember to make sure you obtain certificates of liabilities from everyone BEFORE they start work. If they don't have insurance, don't hire them. If I had trouble with a sub (just a few), my husband would step in to be the heavy, but in general I didn't have a problem. If I interviewed someone that treated me strange or made a comment about me being a woman GC, I didn't hire them unless I really wanted them based on their reputation. I think that only happened once, but I made sure my husband made an appearance every now and then. Since you have family nearby, have a male member be on call if needed. You are doing the right thing by getting advice and researching first. It may seem simple in theory - just hire good subs, but there is more to it and finding good subs, isn't always easy. If you hire people that have done work for people you know, that is best. Reading BBB or Angie's list reviews isn't always reliable. If you decide to do it, be sure to ask GW for any advice along the way or just for researching. We have found GW, John Bridge, HVAC Talk, Contractor Talk, Roofing Talk, Terry Love, Building Science, NAIMA, the Brick Industry Assoc and a few other forums/informational sites that I don't remember now very helpful and willing to answer questions from novices. At least bouncing things off the pros is helpful. Reading technical journals and instructions isn't always reliable when it comes to real-life applications. Some instructions are for specific regions also, so your weather and climate may affect what is done. Good luck! This post was edited by RQHome on Mon, May 26, 14 at 12:35
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I guess I qualify as an OB now although I didn't start out that way. We wound up firing our contractor halfway through the job due to his massive incompetence and dishonesty. It then took us several months to convince our bank to let us finish the job ourselves rather than risking getting involved with another crooked builder. Being a general contractor is far more about project management than it is about construction. The GC lines up sub-contractors, makes sure they show up and do the work they're supposed to, handles paperwork, and makes sure everybody gets paid when they're suppoesed to be paid. Many GCs probably couldn't hammer a nail in straight if they had to. To be a GC you need business skills and project management skills, and you need to know (or be willing to find out) what a construction job should look like when it is finished. It helps in dealing with subs to learn the lingo but you don't have to be able to hammer, saw, hang sheetrock, run electrical lines, or anything else. If you OB, plan to spend at least 20 hours per week and possibly more than that on the job. I just WISH we had just gone the owner-builder route right from the start. Neither DH nor I have any construction experience whatsoever but we had looked into being our own general contractors before we hired our builder. We even took a class on building your own home but then decided that we just didn't have the necessary time to devote to the task. Was that a mistake! I had done my homework and had spent a huge amount of time on this board before we ever broke ground - so I had a good idea of what to look for in quality work. It quickly became evident that my builder didn't have a clue and apparently he couldn't have cared less. His subs were obviously the cheapest he could find and often, I suspect, were undocumented day laborers. They didn't follow installation specifications for installed materials like Tyvek sheathing, my Jeld-wen windows, or the roofing shingles. I know because when things didn't look right to me, I got the specs from the manufacturers and checked their work myself. They also often didn't follow building codes - which I found out because I had put it in my contract that I would separately hire a third-party inspector to inspect all stages and that any work not meeting code would have to be redone at the builder's expense. The framer hired by my builder used I-beam trusses between the first and second floors instead of the open-web trusses I had specified. The framing was completed while I was out of town for two weeks and by the time I got back, the house was already sheathed and the roofer had started work. So it was too late (eg., economically unfeasible) to make the builder have the entire roof and second floor taken down so that the right trusses could be put in. My plans called for the HVAC units and all ductwork to be within the heated/cooled envelope of the house. When I demanded that my builder check with his engineer to ensure that holes could be cut through the i-beams large enough to accomodate the HVAC ducts, he assured me that would be "no problem." That was a lie. Even the holes that had to be cut through the i-beam trusses for plumbing drain lines weakened them enough that my third-party inspector insisted that extra trusses be installed to bear part of the load. No doubt putting those in was a major expense that the builder had to eat. There was no way HVAC ductwork could be run between the floors as designed. Instead, the HVAC units were put in the unairconditioned attic along with massive amounts of flexible ductwork. Instead of an attic that could someday be finished out to add a couple more bedrooms, I have two big HVAC units and what looks like a massive silver spiderweb totally filling the attic space. I also lost closet space in all my bedroom closets because ductwork chases down to the first floor had to be put somewhere. When I exploded about the lost usable square footage and the additional on-going costs associated with having the HVAC and ductwork up in the attic (we live in central Texas!) my builder tried to tell me that EVEN IF the framer had used open-web trusses, the ductwork still would not have been able to be run through the trusses and that "everybody puts HVAC units in the attic." DUH? Open web trusses are designed to allow ductwork and plumbing to be run them!! Had the man NEVER read anything about energy efficient building practices? Nope. He just trusted that his framer - who hardly spoke English - knew what he was doing. Despite all this, my builder kept telling me that he was a "professional" and that I should just relax and let him do his job. HAH! I can't think of a single task that ever he actually handled completely correctly from start to finish. Then, shortly after the HVAC units were installed, I got hit with a $54,000 lien because builder had not paid for my windows and patio doors even though he had been given draw money specifically for that purpose! That lien was immediately followed up by threats of two smaller liens from two other subcontractors (the portapotty provider and the exterior paint contractor)! And the builder admitted he didn't have the money to pay any of the three. At that point I was more than ready to fire him but my bank insisted that I could NOT do so. We paid off the liens and the unpaid subcontractors and I took over handling ALL monies and paying the subcontractors and suppliers directly instead of having draws go to the builder to pay them. No more money was going to flow into the builder's hands until my house was completed, at which point anything that was still left of the original contract price would be his "profit." By that point, the only thing the builder was doing was hiring subs and ordering materials. I was paying a third party inspector separately to check all work that I didn't feel competant to inspect myself. I was handling all the paperwork and making sure everybody got paid. But then the kicker... I discovered that builder was having materials delivered to my build - which I was paying for - and then having his subs (whom I was also paying!) move them to a spec house that he was building and install them there. I had had enough. I fired him. After taking over as GC, I had to spend as much time/effort on UNDOING some of the mistakes he made as on moving forward to finish the build. And the money he wasted/stole from us has forced us to cut back on the level of finishes that we had originally planned to have. My advice: Go take a course on building your own home. Spend time reading and learning everything you can about the building process. Learn the language. If you are reasonably intelligent and willing to devote the time, you CAN build your own home. Plus, there are businesses (Owner-Builder Network and UBuildIt.com are two that I know about although I've not used either one) that will help you by providing you with pre-vetted lists of sub-contractors and guiding you step by step through the process. If your state or your bank requires you to have a licensed builder, these organizations will be the builder-of-record for you. Of course they charge a fee for their services. I don't know how much but it is significantly less than a builder's profit margin. You can also hire a third-party inspector to make sure that you're getting everything built to code. Just make sure that all your subcontractors know that they don't get paid until your third party inspector signs off that the work is up to code. I designed my plan myself and I would love to see the house built as designed. The house we are in the process of finishing will eventually be "okay" but it will never be the house I dreamed of. So there is some chance that when we get this house built we will sell it and rebuild the same design in a new location. But next time I will definitely OB from the get go.
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Anglophilia
6 years ago
My advice with any construction is "Assume nothing"!!!
cpartist
6 years ago
My advice with any construction is "Assume nothing"!!!

Great advice!
InItForThe LongHaul
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
We have been doing this, and we have unfortunately encountered some nightmares during our build. My advice is - get everything in writing! It doesn't matter if the sub has done multiple jobs for you on your build, how well you think you know them, and even if this is just a smaller add-on job, still get it in writing. And do this for every single job they do. Make up a payment log, and anytime you pay them, write down the amount and the date and have them sign that log that they've received payment, even if you pay by check and they write you a receipt. Even if it's for changing out a toilet paper holder. Get it in writing.

Check out references and check them out again. Ask for proof of licensing and insurance and bonding, make a copy and check them out. If they don't check out, run like the wind!

If there is anything not done correctly, take a lot of photos. You never know if/when you might need them.

Make your policy on drug and alcohol use very clear. Show up unannounced now and then. And, if you smell anything that doesn't smell legal, call the authorities. (I wish I was kidding.)

Make sure up front all your subs know your policy on picking up after themselves. Make trash cans available to them and keep them emptied.

Make it clear what your plan is for materials. We provided all materials for most of our subs (other than plumber and electrician) and required that materials lists be given in advance so that we could have materials there and ready for them when they arrived so they could get straight to work. That worked fine for all of our subs except two - a drywall sub who tried to convince me he couldn't calculate drywall needed the day he bid the job (bidding labor by the sheet hung), but then miraculously knew how to the day he showed up to start the work when we were on a time crunch...and then there was the sub who wanted to spend his entire day running around town getting materials he "forgot" to tell me about rather than working. Of course, I heard all about him hanging out at different places around town shooting the breeze while he was supposed to be working. That one also took it upon himself to take materials I had purchased (that I had planned to use), return them to the store, get something else and also buy something for his daughter while he was there with the store credit he got from my materials he had returned - all without asking. Nope, not kidding.

Being a softy has no place in being an owner/builder. I know because my husband started out as one, and it bit him in the rear more than once, and as much as I hate to admit it, it did me, too. I wanted to be more professional and view this as a job, because that's basically what it is. When I started seeing warning signs with one of our subs, I was ready to let him go, but my husband, the softy, wanted to give him another chance, then another, then another. Then his wife called me begging to help her out (she was working with him and knew me well enough to know that kids are my soft spot) and her daughter needed glasses. She promised she would come work to do whatever I needed her to do on the house until she paid it off, so I caved. They left with a chunk of our money and not completing the work. And by the way, after this happened, I did a lot more digging and found out they've done this to other people, and I've since talked to some of them. Too bad I didn't do that kind of digging prior to hiring them. Live and learn. But, this story doesn't end here. We will see them in court.

Unfortunately, most subs do not treat you the way you would want to be treated. Trust your gut/intuition. If you have a bad feeling about a sub, there's usually a reason for it. Even if it means it will delay your build, a bad sub will delay you even further and cost you more money in the long run, so trust your gut and find someone else.
DLM2000-GW
6 years ago
We recently completed our owner/builder project. We hired subs and also did work ourselves but for the sake of brevity I won't go into our sub horror stories which are comparable to those already told above. Even being in the construction business for 25+ years was no guarantee of a smooth build for us. If I were to do this again (and there is no flippin' way that will EVER happen) I'd want to hire a project manager who at the very least has significant construction experience and possibly an engineering background but certainly connections to qualified engineers in the area. There are a lot of hats to wear and decision to make while building and I'd recommend hiring someone to share some of those hats and have your back because the one thing I can guarantee is you'll need it.
Architectrunnerguy
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Skimmed through the posts above so I'll skip reiterating that valuable advice and just try to add to it.

We've (Mrs. architectrunnerguy and I) have GC'ed three houses over the past 25 years and in each one we learn something else. Here's my short list...

-Get lien releases and don't pay for large amounts of materials (like drywall) until it is actually on site)

-Write into ALL contracts that the sub is required to have at least one person on the crew who is FLUENT in English or the work will be shut down until that happens. Numerous reasons for this. Safety, neighbor issues, inspections (usually if an inspector comes by and can't give a "pass" but for a few minor items, they can be done right there but only if there's communication), something is being built wrong, you want something changed, etc. A couple of times I had to stop work because a cell phone was being handed to me so I could talk to the interpreter on another job 20 miles away.

-Don't know if you can write this in a contract or not but stress promptness for meetings. In our last build along about the drywall stage I figured I had spent the better part of 8 hours waiting for people to show up at previously agreed upon times. 15 minutes one day, 20 minutes the next, it all added up.

So I started making a big deal about being prompt suggesting "OK. we're meeting at 10AM, pretend you're catching a plane. It pulls away from the gate at 10:01. Be on it"

Well two things immediately happened. First the on time arrival rate went from abysmal to nearly 100%. After my speech I couldn't be late of course so I'd typically arrive a few minutes early and nearly always the guy would be already there. And second, after hearing my speech everyone got real defensive with "That's great! I don't like to wait around either!

And as an aside I believe promptness is a sign of respect. That and of course if I had to wait a half hour for the plumber it's a wash but if he has to spend the same amount of time on an "extra" it's on his invoice!

-Insist on all cellphones being turned off during a meeting. Nothing's worse than discussing a tricky detail and the guys phone keeps ringing..."Oh excuse me, I have to get this" and then you find out later that what was discussed wasn't absorbed or implemented like what was discussed because the guy was multi tasking and wasn't focused......which results in ANOTHER meeting likely riddled with MORE phone calls......There's very little that can't wait 30 minutes and it leaves you both to focus on the reason why you're meeting And BTW, turn off YOUR phone too!

-And finally, ask your subs about time off. We all have to spend a weekend now and then "catching up" but if he responds to your questions about the last weekend off and the last vacation by replying "I can't remember" and "Three years ago", find somebody else. You want your guy showing up on your job refreshed and rested as opposed to on edge, tired and testy.

But good luck with your project. Exciting times.
lookintomyeyes83
6 years ago
Be there every minute of the day, or as often as you can. We hired a GC for most of the exterior and some of the interior work (doing the flooring, trim ourselves) and gawd, the mistakes he misses because he's never onsite...or just didn't read the damn drawings.

Any tips for owner/builder who is not doing the work themselves?

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