I've actually just repotted it :) I've also ordered fertilizer- Miracle Gro 24-8-16 so I'll probably give it a try this weekend.

In low light conditions you're always likely to end up with long bare branches with the only leaves towards the ends. The tree doesn't have any need for leaves that aren't doing the full photosynthesis for them. As far as the tree is concerned the leaves up top will help it reach up into higher light faster.

Dana.....what zone are you in and what direction does that large patio door face?

I'm in 5b and facing South-West, so the ficus was getting a lot of light. I figured it might be too much light, that's why I tried to block some with the curtains. Getting some sheer curtains is on my to do list, but unfortunately I haven't had time to look for some yet.

No such thing as too much light for a ficus in an indoor environment (same goes for outdoor if acclimated).

Give it all the light you can. Don't block he window with anything and move it directly in front of the window.

naturally, these are full sun loving plants.

Its currently growing like it's not getting enough light.

It used to be in a North facing house a year and a half ago, so after we moved he wasn't doing that well in full sun and lost all the leaves on the trunk, and neither were my other plants (I have african violets and a rattlesnake plant).

Well it must have been a heat issue and not a sun issue. The use of a small fan will correct that.

A north facing window doesn't provide enough light to damage really any plant (if in the northern hemisphere). Im thinking it was related to something else.

sun shining through a window is filtered by the glass and therefore not direct sun.

your plant is growing as though it's not getting enough light.

i grow Ficus right up in front of south facing windows with the addition of grow lights overhead.

I concur with Dave. My Ficus is right up against (less than a foot away) from a large SW facing window. It seems to love the spot.....3 more leaves are primed to bust out of their sheaths either today or tomorrow.

Dana - generally speaking, multi-trunked trees/plantings look best if all the trunks originate very near or just below the soil line, and consist of 2, 3, or 5 trunks.

Light can be A consideration in why your trunk lost it's leaves, but it's unlikely it was a significant factor in your plant's case, given the sparsity of foliage on the branches (which lets a lot of light through to lower branches/foliage). The main reasons were likely root congestion (a big player in creating trees with foliage concentrated toward apices [branch tips]), and/or low concentrations of mobile nutrients, and/or over or under-watering.

If you want a multi-trunked plant, I'd move it outdoors for a couple of weeks, then cut it back to 6" (or less) above the soil. 4" would be better. It will back-bud. You can keep 3 or 5 trunks (rub any unwanted buds off as they appear) and start on a rigid pinching program that has you allowing each trunk to grow 3 full leaves before pinching the branch back to 2 leaves. When you do this, a new branches should form in the axil of each leaf, so from the first order of branches (the trunks) you get 2 branches. Pinch those and you get 4. pinch again, you get 8, then 16, 32, 64 ........ All that's required for this strategy to work exactly as described is a healthy plant - one that is well-fed and not badly limited by root congestion.

Al

Yes, I think root congestion was a big part of it, the previous pot was considerably smaller and the roots took up all the space inside. I've spread the roots when I repotted, the ficus should have enough room now. I've also never fertilized it, the Miracle-Gro should help.

When you say to cut it 4-6" above the soil, do I have to cut all the way through, or can I cut just a slice of the bark around the trunk? Can a trunk survive with no leaves long enough to grow new ones?

I sometimes cut trees as tall as 10 ft with trunks several inches thick back to mere stumps as the first transitional step from 'tree in landscape' to 'tree in pot' (bonsai).

If I owned your tree, I wouldn't hesitate to chop it back hard if I wanted a multi-stemmed plant. F elastica are reliable back-budders if they're even reasonably close to healthy. But, you could always take the safe path and cut all 3 branches back to 1 healthy leaf and see if anything pops on the trunk. If it doesn't, you have several cuttings to start fresh with and a good start on a plant in standard (like a lollipop) form. Your call.

Al

Sorry for the delay guys, life got in the way :) I ended up cutting a ring around the trunk of my tree and one day later I saw small buds growing below and above the cut, which is weird, since nothing was supposed to grow above the cut, but ah well, the more the merrier! We'll see where this goes, I'll post updates.

Did you girdle the tree, that is, cut all the way through to the sapwood all the way around? If so, everything above the cut is going to die--unless there's something I'm missing here.

Very likely that the tree will be fine. The cut is too narrow and it will heal pretty quickly. At least ficus will heal in no time. Normally though one would notch partially around the trunk to to induce back budding.

Yes, I cut all the way around, but not very deep and it healed already. I was surprised to see 2 buds above the cut, but one of them grows very slow and I think the other one stopped growing. The bud under the cut is doing well, growing very fast.

Good, especially if the leaves above the cut look okay. I'd guess that the cambium was damaged but not completely severed, but hopefully Al will stop by and let you know how well it will recover.

Even if you cut through the cambium the plant will bridge the gap since it is so narrow. That plant will be fine and recover pretty quick without any ill-effect. That is the short version.

Long version: When doing air layers the bark+cambium is removed all around the trunk. Usually about an inch wide to make sure the tree does not heal itself. The top of the cut is still nourished by the roots (water moves up through the xylem/woody inner layer below cambium). But photosynthate and auxins cannot move down since the phloem is removed along with the cambium. So the top is happy but the roots or anything below the cut are not so happy but will survive especially if there are foliage below the cut too. In air layers one has to make sure there are enough foliage below the cut. Eventually roots form at the base of the top cut as long as water is available around the cut.

The plant will try to heal itself starting from the top down. This looks like ugly callous tissue at first trying cover the wound. New cambium cells will form underneath and eventually they can connect to the bottom portion. If the cut is narrow this happens pretty quickly. Even if it is all around the stem. Girdling with wire prevents prevents this bridging and the tree dies because the roots will die. If the wire is thin enough a vigorous tree can still heal and jump over the wire and bridge the gap.

Back budding happens because the auxin flow is interrupted by the cut and some usually pretty close to the cut. The new leaves will produce food and heal that cut even faster.

New bud under the cut will take over the plant and the upside will eventually die. You better air layering the upside so that side have roots to replant, or better, air layering all the 3 branches. In that small container, 3 branches are too many for a big leaf ficus. 1 or 2 will keep growing, but other will stuck. Here in tropic, the way to make it multy branches is plant it in ground, and wait till it have a leg size trunk with strong roots, then cut it several inch above the ground.

Gudang: The new bud will not just take over the plant and lead lead to top death as you claim. Just does not happen that way. No need to air layer the top unless you want to do that. And three branches are not too many. With appropriate pruning the plant can be shortened and made bushy. I am not sure where you get these ideas from.

This is a large leaf ficus (F. religiosa) from the tropics in a smallish clay pot over 20yrs old.

@tropico

Your f. Religiousa must be trained as bonsai in a long time to be like that with plenty sunshine outdoor in the process. If that f. Elastica trained like that, yeah, maybe it possible with shorter stem and smaller leaves as a result. But what i see upthere is f. Elastica that live indoor. The root size will reflect above the ground. Indoor, that tree will choose to have large leaves with few branches rather than smaller leaves with many branches. Under low light, auxin will promote few most promising stem to keep growing as long as possible to reach light, lead to apical domination. Outdoor, auxin under pressure, and cytokinin take over to promote multy branches.

Gudang: My plant spends indoors during winter for about 6 months. But what you said above makes more sense. However, your contention that the top will die because of a new branch low below on the stem is not correct. To promote the plant to be bushy (with shorter internodes) more light is definitely needed and the top needs to be pruned off. Chopping off the trunk should be done when the plant is very healthy and growing vigorously.

It's not an immediate effect that those top 3 branches will die, but after the new lowest branch lil larger, able to grow straight up, and need more nutrients. Branches will die when it's ability to produce new leaves way too slow that older leaves getting old quicker and fall. Small pot for 3 branches big leaf ficus will lead to slow growth, make some more will make it worse. The plant will have to choose best stems to survive, not all. That is the consequence of planting in pot.

Planting in a pot does have inherent limitations, but root congestion doesn't become a significant limitation until it reaches the approximate point in time that the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact. A full repot with root pruning entirely eliminates the restrictions associated with root congestion until such time that the root/soil mass again reaches the point where it can be lifted from the pot intact. This is true whether or not there is a single trunk or 20 individual trunks in the same pot.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying, but if you're suggesting the lower branches will be "sacrificed" because the tree's tendency toward apical dominance will have the tree concentrating 2/3 of it's available energy in the upper third of the plant, causing the lower branches to languish, the fix for that is easy. Pruning the top hard, which allows light to lower branches and forces expenditure of energy on lower branches is a very common practice to manage energy flow throughout the plant. A grower familiar with the ways of trees and plants can ensure by a variety of means that EVERY branch gets an allotment of energy that allows it to maintain an appropriate level of vitality, no matter where that branch is located on the plant.

Al

Inside pot, there's a maximum surface area in which root contact with soil per cubic volume. That determine maximum nutrients uptake possible. Let's call it input.

The output=input, can't be greater. If 3 branches that grow equally having same rate slow growth, making another one that potentially growing better, will turn it to dominan/lead since in low light plant prefer fewer stems to grow as long as possible to reach light.

If you move big leaf plant from ground which have 6 or 7 branches to a pot, it will be similiar. Some of it branches will stuck and eventually die, but few survivals will grow long pretty fast.

When you gain an understanding of how to manage the energy flow in a tree, you'll see the error in your thinking. Growth isn't measured by increases in extension, it's measured by the increase in a plant's dry mass. The potential for increase in mass of a planting, given a fixed soil volume and level of root colonization/congestion is the same, whether there is 1 tree in the pot or 20. If you experience the death of one or more plants in a multi-plant composition, it cannot be seen as an inevitability; rather, cause of death, if it is indeed related to a disparate flow of energy, is on the grower for not understanding how to remedy the issue.

Al

We dealing with living plant, not a laboratory sample that can be burn to ash and measure it weight. You can measure it visually by it's stem length and diameter, or if you wanna be precise, you can measure it's weight after you fully watering the plant, and compare it's weight day by day always after fully watering. You'll get mass increase in precise. And if you count only dry mass, you will miss difference in cell ability to hold water. Big cell and small cell only different in water content, which make the plant look way larger than other. Think about that.

About many plants in same pot is different case since there are more variable to consider, and i don't wanna be out of topic, even yes, for same variety, optimum mass gain for 20 or 1 plant will be same at its peak. But the peak itself depend on soil volume.

I gain understanding on how to manage energy flow, that's why a came to that conclusion. Please don't judge me yet.., and i won't judge you either.

Gudang, many of us on the forums rely on Al's advice, and for good reasons:

--we've seen numerous examples of his successes with plants;

--we've seen and heard about about his long and complex history studying and engaging in the practice, not just the theory, of horticulture, including extensive work with bonsai that has informed his understanding of what we do;

--his thoughts mesh to form a sensible system of thinking, his explanations are complete, and his instructions are clear and concise;

--I can successfully extrapolate from his explanations and examples, which allies me to make adjustments that suit my specific circumstances;

--last but not least, I've experienced great success when I (and hundreds of others in the past) implement his suggestions.

I can tell that you don't agree with almost anything Al (or many others, for that matter) thinks, but after reading several of your posts I still don't see a coherent approach that I can apply to my situation, no matter how authoritative your language is. I can't follow your explanations, which seem to go in circles, and you regularly contradict things that make sense and work reliably.

All of this may stem from a language barrier, but I'm not going to change my understanding of what plants need without some compelling and coherent evidence that something works much better than what I'm doing now. I'm also going to continue to advise anyone who asks for help to follow Al's tried and true practices.

Lenore

@lenore

Look at my posts in this forum, lenore. I just sharing my view. It's right or wrong, let's the reader decide. It's not me that judge and correcting another people comments. I know that Al do great job, helping others and have many fans already, but make a forum into 1 flavour isn't a good idea. This is forum that accessible worldwide. I and maybe many readers here not always able to find pine bark, for example, and perlite here so expensive and rare. Am i wrong if having different approach to solve problems? If this only from USA to USA forum, then why i can join?

Look this forum contents, about houseplants, don't you see it's same flavour for years? I don't judge anyone, but you also judging me. What's wrong with you guys?

Lenore,

Gudang is just pushing all of the same misinformation that others have tried to do in the past (Anthony, etc).

Saying that heavy peat based soils with extreme water retention are the way to go.

Unable or not wanting to grasp the concept that growing indoors in a container is very, very different than outside, in the ground, in the tropics.

Lol.. I wondering why people have to make an assumption then judge it theirself. I don't use peat or anything like that. Yes i use dense soil for max nutrients uptake and water retention, but no for root rot since enough oxygen also freely available. All in pot, inside house. Sound doesn't make sense for you? No problem. Better that way. We agree to disagree anyway.

Public forums are there for people to put their opinions forward and others can either take it or leave it. Attacking people for stating their beliefs is pretty poor behaviour.

Never attacked anyone personally.

when someone is pushing misinformation that could affect other newcomers negatively, I will say something.

It definitely looks personal.

Personal? im unsure what you're speaking of.

Pushing misinformation? Lol.. you judging me again, dave. Instead of doing it, why don't you try searching, learning, googling, and back on topic with an outstanding arguments? That's better for everyone rather than do ad hominem to me. Judging other people misinformation, less understanding, etc for having different oppinion isn't the way to prove that you're right. It's a fallacy.

Please everyone back on topic.

I tried to make my post direct and neutral, and because Gudang has shown himself to be a sensible grown-up I was confident he wouldn't feel that he was being attacked--but I apologize if I was wrong.

I was hoping that tapla, or maybe others, will respond and share more his knowledge here that the topic become rich and give benefits more for the readers. That's the purpose of public discussion. It's typical of me to give pressure more to people that i think have capability to respond, that way more knowledge out from a discussion. If there's anything you feel uncomfort about my posts, you can message me personally so the discussion flow not out from it's track. Hope you understand. Thx.

Gudang, I am not judging you as a person.

Everyone takes things too personally. It's not about you or me. It's about plants, soils etc.

So let's back to the topic. As my statement above, plant branches will reflect their roots or vice versa. Small root unable to support multy branches. More branches require bigger pot, or the plant will shut some branches down. That case more easily to recognize for woody plant that have large leaf/stem. The rest arguments are above.., yep, slide up up up more..

What you said, "....plant branches will reflect their roots or vice versa. Small root unable to support multy branches. More branches require bigger pot ....", needs qualification, and is not true in most cases.

The natural habit of trees is to shed organs (leaves/roots/branches) when growing under conditions of stress or strain. While what you said is generally true for trees in the landscape, it's generally untrue for trees in pots. E.g. - A root bound plant will have thousands of roots, but will be shedding branches and leaves due to the root bound conditions, so as the number, size, and volume of roots increases, the number of branches/leaves and o/a top mass decreases. We've seen this many thousands of times on the forum in images of plants suffering from root congestion.

Too, if roots are properly managed, and as root systems are brought under control, it's common to have very large trees growing with excellent vitality in pots only a fraction of the size you might expect, and only a fraction of the size the plant was in prior to a program that includes root maintenance. A clear illustration of this is what I do as a bonsai practitioner. I can achieve amazing branch/leaf ramification and top mass, supported by very small root systems in very small pots. This is true for every tree I work with, not just a special tree here & there.

Al

My statement is in general, and not valid only under circumstances like i mention far above. Bonsai, that trained against their natural behavior, which make bonsai special.

Naturally, root hair only formed near the tips of root. When you cut a root branch, they will make another tips. One or more depend the room available. Root bound is 1 root, 1 tip that keep growing wasting space that make less root hair produced. With or without root bound, soil volume will limit plant ability to absorb nutriens. That's how bonsai work, that's why bonsai need small pot because it will limit plant growth, that with proper train, a plant able to form like a tree, but in miniature.

If a plant not trained as a bonsai, that plant will follow their natural behaviour. In low light environment, that plant will prefer few branches, but with longer stem and bigger leaves. It won't form like bonsai that have many branches because sunlight that work as auxin inhibitor doesn't exist in house. If a bonsai-like tree can be achieved that way, bonsai no longer special.

In house, rubber plant with limited nutriens have 2 possible form. Reducing their leaves size, or reducing their branches. Since i never see rubber tree bonsai have very small leaves, then i came to conclusion that the rubber tree upthere will reduce it's branches.

Your generalization is invalid, because we know with certainty that as the volume of roots in any given pot increases beyond the approximate point where the root/soil mass can be lifted from the pot intact, the top mass is not a reflection of root mass. As root congestion increases, top mass and and rate of extension decreases. This holds true even if trees are potted up after the tipping point of root congestion.

Bonsai trees are not in any way trained "against their natural behavior", unless you include pruning as unnatural. Bonsai takes advantage of largely unrecognized ways of working WITH a tree's natural inclinations in order to produce a desired effect. Proficient bonsai practitioners have an intimate understanding of How to care for trees and keep them healthy, even in the face of a considerable increase in the amount of stress the same species might be subjected to if it was grown under conventional container culture. You can't claim foul re bonsai techniques being applied to conventional container culture in order to keep trees at the peak of vitality, just because you might not understand how to apply those techniques. I generally find that whenever someone uses that argument, they don't really have an argument. When we pick tomatoes, it's best to remove the stems so they don't poke holes in the skin of adjacent fruits in the basket. Does that mean the practice of removing stems should not be practiced during the harvest of other fruits or vegetables?

Finally, the same leaf (size) reduction and ramification strategies that are employed by bonsai practitioners aren't widely used on houseplants like F elastica for the simple reason that few have taken the time to widely share the techniques with houseplant hobby growers. The same increases in ramification and decreases in leaf size can be absolutely guaranteed if only the tree is appropriately pruned and pinched. I regularly discuss on various forums how to pinch to achieve these ends. Too, bonsai practitioners are very careful to ensure their plants do not become root bound to the point it hampers the plant's vitality. While reduced leaf size is indeed a symptom of tight roots, tight roots also decrease ramification and limit the number of leaves the plant can/will retain, so it's largely a self-defeating strategy. There are many strategies that we use to reduce leaf size, but intentionally allowing plants to become root bound is very low on the list and generally used only on older trees (mainly conifers) that are already finely ramified and in which limited growth is at least temporarily desirable.

I'm not sure why you're bent on arguing about techniques and the results thereof that have been practiced for many centuries with predictable and explainable results.

Al

You said it's invalid with arguments that i don't denied. I'm talking about plant growth, not plant mass accumulation. I'm not denied that plant, even with single trunk, able to grow very high or very large, but that's not i'm talking about. Soil volume NOT limit plant size, i'm ok with that. But it's limit plants growth. Plants growth is mass gain/time, not the accumulation. So let's go back again since your long reply seems missing my point.

To simplify all of this since i'm not so fluent in english, let's me explain in some equations in form

A=factor of(b, c, d, etc)

So

Plant growth = f(root nutrients absorbtion,environment, treatments)

>>Root nutrients absorbtion =f(root size, root form, root health)

>>Root size=f(pot size)

That's all, a relation of pot size that effect plant growth in 3 steps. Hope it's simple enough to understand.

@tropico

You can find a tree living in limited space in many places naturally, so plant a tree in a pot still i considered natural. What you have in pot can be found naturally in the wild. That's natural.

Bonsai is different. Best you can find in the the wild is bonsai candidate, not a bonsai. No monkey in the wild can prune and pinch to make a tree turn into bonsai. So you should understand now. Bonsai is man made. They look like that because human made them.

Your F. Religiousa above, you want it or not, have become a bonsai in shape because of what you did in the last 20 years.

The definition of 'bonsai' evolves as the artist matures in the art. What the budding artist considers to be a bonsai is indeed a bonsai to that neoartist, but the more advanced practitioner would hold himself to a much higher standard in order to call one of his trees a bonsai.

The fact is, in situ plants don't live in pots, they live in the landscape, and there is a strikingly clear delineation between the two different cultures. A bonsai is no different than any other tree in a pot, aside from the fact that the bonsai practitioner is privy to a wide variety of techniques that enhance the vitality and appearance of plants commonly grown by hobbyists using more conventional means.

Personally, I use techniques borrowed from what I know about bonsai on virtually every plant I grow. One of the main reasons I would be inclined to apply those techniques to houseplants is because of the incredibly ugly specimens that inevitably develop in some species when the plant's owner acquiesced to Mother Nature's expropriation of the role of chief sculptor. Witness the uncountable numbers of growers that arrive at these fora with plants that have trees virtually untouched by the hand of a human - rotted roots, branches growing every which way in a pattern that looks like anything but a tree, leaning trunks that can only be supported by staking, ad infinitum. Every one of these problems can be easily rectified by borrowing from bonsai. Should those methods be kept secret. It sounds like that's what you're suggesting.

Call it a sin to appropriate some of the measures used by bonsai practitioners and use them for the betterment of the plant's vitality and eye appeal if you like, but that's much like saying an aeronautic engineer shouldn't be allowed to help a kid build a kite because it might not look like your vision of what a kite should be in the end, even though it flies as balletically as a butterfly.

Who cares about natural? Folks don't want a tree that's naturally dying or that naturally looks like something out of a spook show. They want a healthy plant that look good, and don't much care what kind of bad vibes someone saddles them with for making the extra effort to rise above the crowd that accepts their fate with stoicism not unlike that of a cow standing in a freezing rain.

Al

I'm not going into bonsai that make it different from houseplant in some part specifically, but basic biology that all of us have learned them in high school maybe needed. So it's in general.

Houseplants live usually less or without sunshine. As the result, tree tend to grow with bigger leaf, longer and weaker stem, with fewer branches. Lignification process are slow. Bonsai just in opposite. Sunshine inhibit auxin domination. Lignification process are faster with limited nutrients and plenty sunshine. Branching is easier since cytokinine operate in balance with auxin. As the result, the shape of bonsai will be in opposite of houseplant. Leaf size, stem strength, and some other are different. It's not about skill or technical train, but because both have different living environment.

On soil preference, those two also different. Bonsai need to adjust root and pot size small to prevent over growth so it's shape not much difference over time. On houseplant, bigger pot is better for plant vitality. It's keep them living in steady environment longer, and no problem with plant size. Grow faster is better.

Their soil mixture also (should be) different. Houseplant should be able to keep their vitality longer without human assistance. They're natural. They shouldn't make their owner spend too much time taking care for them. Bonsai is man made. Human assistance is crucial for them to keep their shape and vitality. Soil preference that eliminate the factor of chemicals and biological activity in soil is common in practice, they're not natural anyway.

I already post somewhere in this forum about soil for houseplant that should good physically, chemically, and biologically. Even we have to learn little more about nutrients chemical properties and some microbial behavior and functionality, but it's worthed. Plant able to stay healthy with less assistance, even for couple weeks without watering.

A mixture of soil that good in physical properties sometimes good enough. But the problem isn't there. It's the owner assistance. And plants that die because they dry is more common, but since everyone know that dry plant is an absolute death, no one asking for help. More porous or less porous, if it's still in range that tolerated by plants, it's fine. Only need adjustment in the owner habit on taking care of them. But chemical and biological understanding will give some more benefits. In good soil adjustment, nature will help much more.

Ok - if it's not about skill or technical training, why is it that maybe only 1 in a thousand people who try their hand at bonsai, give it up after less than a year because they are unable to keep their trees alive? You don't understand that improving the basic care the average houseplant gets by incorporating a few of the techniques used by bonsai practitioners, as it applies to a plant's vitality and eye appeal, can make a world of difference to even inexperienced growers. That evidence, which handily trumps theory, can be found in many thousands of exchanges all over the forums, but this forum is probably one of the best examples ...... Container Gardening being close on its heels.

BTW - the most common cause of issues related to plant vitality/appearance at all forums where conventional container culture predominates, is over-watering - not death by desiccation.

You can have the last word.

Al

It's about patient. People want it, but not patient enough to follow the process. I'll tell you story about poor old grandpa.

This old grandpa growing ficus benjamina in pot for years. He only have 1 beautiful small pot, so everytime the ficus' root getting bigger, he prune it, and every time the ficus grow too big that make it unstable in small pot, he prune it. He have no money to buy another pot. Without his intention, after years, the ficus turn into a beautiful bonsai.

Bonsai basically about patient and care. A wisdom. Don't let technical aspects make the wisdom out from our mind.

About plant vitality, as i said above, you have time to ask in forum if your plant overwatered. But if your plant die drying, no one can help. If only lil dry, give water and all be just fine, no need to ask in forum. That's why all you got here is help help help caused by overwatering.

Ok, that's all.