Some how you are killing your yeast....or not allowing the dough to warm up enough for the yeast to become active....has nothing to do with AP flour or OO...

I think you may be right. I took the dough out of the freezer this morning and placed it on the kitchen counter until it defrosted (about 3 hours), then put it back into the refrigerator until dinner. I took it out of the fridge about 1/2 hour before stretching it into the pizza pan. It seemed very relaxed. Perhaps it would have been better to leave it in the fridge to defrost slowly until I was ready to use it at dinnertime.

I think the yeast is too cold when you're making the pizza. It needs not just to defrost but also warm up. Additionally, how long it's in the freezer could affect it. Take it out of the fridge for a couple of hours. I usually make four dough balls at a time and do a slow rise (low yeast) in the fridge. 24 hrs. and you can make pizza. 2 days and it's perfect. Three days and it's still good. Four days and it'll rise, but slowly and with less oven spring. When I freeze it, it's only really great for about a month in terms of the rise.

No matter what, when that chilled dough has been in the fridge that long, warming it up is an absolute must. The dough will relax after about half an hour, just as you've described, but the yeast isn't happy and active until at least an hour, and that's in a very warm kitchen with the oven cranked up. Several hours in the Winter.

If you're seeing a difference to how it behaved with your all AP dough, it could be as simple as the yeast isn't as well insulated so just cold, or maybe your yeast is older and less active than you think. Or it could be that the way the gluten developed in the AP version was more forgiving.

If you decide to make the dough and freeze it, do you still do the slow rise in the refrigerator or do you put it directly in the freezer and let it rise after it has been removed from the freezer?

When I make dough to freeze, I put it immediately after the last knock down into the freezer. When preparing to bake, I lay it on the counter and don't attempt to shape until it has shown a rise....or some signs of rise. Sometimes I submerge the plastic bag of dough in warm water to speed up the thaw.
Flattening the dough out and getting some air into it helps too.....and if you really think the yeast has died, sprinkle a little yeast grains over the flattened dough, and work it in....and yes it really does work!! There are recipes out there that say to knead and develop the gluten in the dough before adding yeast....and they advocate sprinkling dry yeast onto the flattened out dough.
Yeast dough is a forgiving thing....no need to measure....just add yeast to flour and water. The only thing i measure is salt....because that's important...but you can salt to taste....and you can flatten out....change your mind, roll it up and make something else....the dough doesn't mind!

the dough doesn't mind!

lol. I wish my dough didn't mind but it definitely does! It's mystifying to me that the pizza that I made immediately was perfect and the one that was frozen became cardboard.

I remember one other thing I did that might have been bad. When I took the dough out of the plastic bag it seemed very sticky, so I put some flour on the countertop, covering the top and bottom of the dough blob so it would be easier to form into a circle. I was a little worried about doing that because I thought the flour might inhibit the rise in the oven. So maybe that's what did the pizza in.

I can't remember for sure because it's been awhile, but I think I've done it after one day in the fridge and right away, to similar results. It doesn't seem to completely stop developing when frozen, only really really really slow, which is why there's a time limit to the freezing.

I was thinking that adding some yeast might work (and might reverse the freezing time limit), but without Linda's experience didn't want to say so. Being that it's white flour, and it doesn't sound overworked (i.e., the gluten strands are intact) the dough probably doesn't mind it as she said.

Your extra flour might have shocked the yeast some. When it gets fed sometimes it metaphorically takes a postprandial nap then starts rising again. The stickiness was likely water migration, which is a thing that happens with freezing. You might have been able to just work the water back in, and too much added flour could have made it dense, but it shouldn't have stopped the rise, other than the seems like it's napping I mentioned.

Again, my best advice would be to let the dough come fully up to room temperature before you work it (or up to 85° if you have a rising or "proofing" setting, or use Linda's bag in warm water trick). Give the yeast a chance to wake up, and the starches a chance to relax. The biggest thing you need to add is likely time.

I think next time after I knead the dough, I am going to put it directly in the freezer. Then when I am ready to use it, I will try slow rising it in the refrigerator for 24 hours. Then 2 hours on the countertop should bring it to a good temperature. I worry so much about over-rising but maybe I should be more worried about under-rising.

Thanks for the tip, islay. I will try it.

Inspired by the movie Julie and Julia, I have been making one pizza a week. The only rule I have is that the pizza toppings have to be different each week. I believe the last pizza was week #18. So I don't mind experimenting with new ways to make dough. So far the best and worst dough recipe has been one and the same (NYT Roberta's Pizza recipe). lol.

The biggest problem I am finding is determining what size the pizza should be. Just because you can get a very thin crust by doing a lot of smooshing, doesn't necessarily mean that particular crust wants to be thin. When I use three cups of flour I usually manage two 16" pizzas from it but I think that is wrong. I think I should be making smaller pizzas with a loftier crust.

If you are calling yourself Jerzeegirl, you surely know that NY Pizza traditionally has a cracker thin crust while Chicago pizza has a thicker chewier crust...It's all what you prefer.
As I said....dough is very forgiving...I have risen bread dough and something has come up and I'f pulled it off the pan and beat it down and put it in an oiled bag in the refrigerator....and baked it the next day....after another rise. Just fine....a bit more of a sour taste but delicious.
Ands most likely your previous failure to rise was due to the extra flour... and the stickeyness probably condensation.....the extra flour messed up the hydration big time as well as gluten development in the added flour. Next time just lightly dust the counter and the top with flour....adding a tine more if really needed. But dough with well developed gluten shouldn't be sticky.

lol. I grew up in a Sicilian family so ALL pizza was very lofty. The anti-NY pie. I used to beg my grandma to make the thin crust but she never could manage to flatten it out. It was always at least an inch high! I think you are right about the condensation and the extra flour but I still think the 00 flour may have contributed somewhat. I don't remember having any trouble at all when I used AP flour exclusively. I know that it measures a bit differently in terms of weight but I have been measuring by weight so the amount I use should be pretty accurate. There is a great possibility that I might be overthinking this.

If I am right 00 flour is a grade related to the fineness of the grind...00 being the finest grind. Nothing to do with gluten etc

I think it absolutely is contributing to the "problem" you are having. Not sure why but my suspicion is it has something to do with how the water is absorbed with a finer grind. Perhaps freezing and thawing affects the moisture content......although I have zero idea what I am talking about!

...........where is Grainlady when we need her ?

ETA Most of the flour used in Italy and France is imported from Canada. Evidently our wheat has a much higher gluten content than American or European flour...who knew?

The bag of 00 Flour I have is much lower in protein content than the AP flour or the Montana Wheat flour. "They"Say it's good for pizza...because it is lower in protein and easier to roll into the New York style cruse. If you want a thick crust, like Jerzeeygirl likes, go for a bread flour with higher protein.

00 is very fine and I do believe it is lower in protein. If my memory serves one cup of AP is equal to 3 3/4 of a cup of 00. It's supposed to be the gold standard for pizza. I do taste the difference but I need to learn how to tame it! I am thinking of trying a 1:4 ratio of 00 to bread flour.

Some people use semolina flour for pizza crust....I have done it....it's great....big thick bready!

I use seminola for pizza and would not describe the result as thick and bready. Mind you I only use 1/4 cup and Canadian AP for the rest.

All this talk of pizza. I may have to make some sooner rather than latter. Now lets talk toppings !

my next one is going to be clams. I just haven't figured out what to combine the clams with.

OK ........thought highly of you until now....clams on a pizza are just plain wrong.

Homemade tomato sauce, fresh basil, mozarella......maybe some mushrooms. .....ok maybe some peppers....maybe

I will never forget having pizza in Paris. I understand French and was quite certain we had ordered what is basically a pizza margherita but it came with a raw egg, maybe slightly coddled, in the centre. Could not get my head around that.

lol chase. I would never put an egg on anything, especially not pizza! However, think spaghetti and clam sauce and translate it into pizza. Also, when you are making 52 pizzas and they all have to be different, you really have to start thinking outside the box!

Check out this recipe

When you said clam pizza I was thinking cioppino ....tomatoes...lots of garlic, olive oil...maybe oregano and parsley.....no egg!!!!

Raw egg would have me seeing spots, but I have made huevos rancheros (whole wheat) pizza, which is a natural considering it's usually on a grilled tortilla. Getting the eggs right is hard, but it's good. If it were planned ahead of time, rather than just fine, we can have pizza for breakfast, I would have put peppers or pepper sauce in the dough, as well as Mexican oregano (I don't do cilantro!) and maybe some ground corn. But for spur of the moment, it was fine as is.

Keeping in mind that my crusts have home milled whole wheat flour, malted barley powder and good EVOO -- they have a lot of flavor compared to many white doughs which taste mostly of yeast and salt--my number one favorite is chopped broccolini and onions sautéed with crushed red pepper. SO good!

I also like throwing a handful of wild argula (my favorite green and go to decor) on top of whatever else is on the pizza. It'll dry up crisp except for the part that's in the damp.

You can put just about anything on a pizza that you can on a sandwich. I haven't done curry yet, but I think I'd use a curry white sauce for the sauce, or if I had leftover madras sauce that would be good but it's a big deal to make right and I wouldn't do it just for pizza which is supposed to be quick and easy, and no fruit.

How will you do the clams? I don't have a lot of experience with them, but there's the San Francisco thing of white clam chowder served in a small sourdough boule, and the clams and bread are fine together. And there's that tomato-y clam chowder that could be deconstructed on a pizza. I don't think fried clams would be good at all, and remember, the clams will turn to rubber if they're overcooked, so you have to hit the sweet spot. They probably need to be cooked ahead unless you do a slow pizza, but just barely. I always think of zucchini when I think of clams, but that's probably something I've been served.

How will you do the clams?

I am thinking clams with garlic sauteed in olive oil, plenty of parsley (although I like the arugula idea a lot). For the cheese I am thinking of pecorino or maybe a combination of parm and pec. Some black pepper. I can parbake the crust first, so that the clams don't have to cook very long. The one thing I have discovered is that the best pizzas have the fewest ingredients. I have been trying to limit the toppings to three (garlic doesn't count).

I do like Linda's cioppino idea - maybe I will try that next month - if this clam pizza is a success.

What is AP? OO?

I find our local pizzas are often woefully deficient in oregano! Like garlic, this ingredient shouldn't count towards a pizza ingredient limit!

AP is All Purpose Flour and OO is Flour that is very fine. I agree about the oregano - I would never count that as an ingredient! It's an essential!

Agreed! Oregano, marjoram, etc., are what make pizza taste like pizza! Some of the "you can put anything on a pizza" combinations may not require them, but "Italian" does!

Week 20's clam pizza was a great success! I used Coastal Cheddar along with whole clams (from TJs), plenty of garlic, white pepper, red pepper, a dusting of parmesan, olive oil and parsley. Baked at 500 deg. in my electric oven. The crust was perfect. Thanks all for helping me figure this dough thing out!

Looks great! I'm so glad it was a success.