writersblock <3

I have to agree with Sushipup1. While everyone has different tastes and likes and dislikes, when the painting appeared on my screen, and regardless of frame, I do not think "old lady", I think Best Western. Just MHO. It could be how it appears on my monitor, and in person has a different feel.

Take the painting out of the frame and paint it a different color put painting back in and be amazed at the difference it makes, I've redone/painted almost all of my paintings frames.

Is it just me or does anyone else feel a little sad or down when you read shaming on here. I'm not what I would consider myself an "old lady" but soon approaching. I am actually starting to feel really bad about how I look these days. Wrinkles, jowels, etc. but that aside, I don't see any need to shame the person asking the question. The term "old lady" has bedn around forever and it's not like she made it up. I think if someone is not sure of meaning of something like a particular term they should just ask and then move on to answer the question. People use all kinds of different phrases depending on when they born, where they grew up or how old their parents were when they were growing up. My mom was 45 when she had me (oooops) so I was exposed to ideas and things that friends with younger parents were not. It can be that simple. Don't get mad about everything.

i agree about the frame being more of a "thing of the past". Maybe changing ut or painting it might make ou feel like less of an old lady.

Winker, I don't see objecting to words or terms that target or demean certain groups as shaming. I see it as an opportunity to provide new information about something that perhaps someone has never thought about before. I thought Pippie was very gracious in her response about it; perhaps she'll pass the info on to her husband! I agree with Writersblock that if we old ladies don't speak up, it's likely no one else is going to.

I agree with Olychick; educating is not shaming and hopefully because of this post, a few more people will stop using the ageist, sexist term.

I think the frame looks cheap and ruins the picture. However, it doesn't appear to be a standard size frame. If not, it may be costly to have it custom framed.

I don't have an issue with the term 'old lady decor' - in the past it stereotypically probably would have been Victorian furniture, velvet/lace curtains, doilies on tables & back of chairs, ferns on plant stands, etc.

The art in the OP is most likely from the 60's Funny thing, I could see a younger person having it in a house decorated in a 60's/70's retro-vibe and it fitting in really well

I also see macrame is coming back for that group

The frame looks like 1960s Spanish colonial revival, and if you have furniture to go with that, it is fine. The white part of the frame looks like it has damage. Like some others, it also reminds me of motel art, but then I've seen motel art that I really liked, and so I would not hold that against it. The cheap motel in Indio where I stayed in March (while visiting the wildflowers in Anza Borrego) had very nice art in it. It also reminds me a bit of art I've seen in galleries in Laguna Beach, but with an East Coast flavor.

I don't have an issue with the term 'old lady decor'

chijim, I'm not sure of your age, but I suspect you are not a "lady." So I can understand why you might not have an issue with the term.

Make no mistake, at 72, I cannot deny that I'm chronologically old. Sometimes (like when there are no mirrors around) I feel like I did when I was decades younger. I forget I'm old!!!

I know that Pip meant no offense and I really believe that no one commenting on it intended to "shame" her. But it's okay to bring up something that feels "ouch" and say, you know, just because we're old, doesn't mean we've lost our sense of what looks good.

I like the painting and agree with chjim that it has a retro vibe, especially with the frame's Spanish feeling. I would get the painting and either re-frame it or update the frame as others have suggested. (My sewing area also has art that would be out of place in the rest of the house. :-) )

No, it's awesome.

I think I even like the frame. (On my phone.)

I think old lady decorating and dated can be two different things. I also think we shouldn't be so sensitive all the time.

I commented earlier and I just want to say that I am 66 years old and have no problem with the term "old lady". Honestly, I have used the term myself. I have many friends who are five-fifteen years older me and I would absolutely describe their decorating style as old lady. I wouldn't say it to them, of course, because I wouldn't want to hurt their feelings, but, yes, their style is definitely old lady. It is was it is.

Ok. I might just be getting annoyed with people critiquing everything that comes out of someone's mouth. It seems like so many times on here the person asking a question gets slammed for how they pose the question or something else. I find that Houzz can be informative and relaxing as well when I don't have time or want to get engrossed in anything in detail. I find that people can say things on here and through phone messaging that they woyld not say to someone's face. Maybe this question/answer is not one of those. I just read smomething this morning and ight away though "ugh". No big deal. Maybe I'm just feeling extra touchy today or something. As far as clothing goes, my sister (who is more "old lady" and 16 years older) will ask if something looks matronly on her or not. She grew up with those terms; I did not. Oh well. No offense to anyone.

If you like the painting, that's all that counts.

If people focused on how their choices have taken them from age zero to 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, usually longer than their predecessors, they would not take offense at the terms old lady or old man. Shouldn't one wear his/her age like a badge of honor? All the knowledge, all that experience. Therefore, I do not understand being insulted by the term. It's just a loose synonym for "dated" "out of style". So what???? Like it? That's all that counts.

and btw, the painting IS old lady. Not because of theme but rather b/c of technique, colors and dimensions which seem to be mid century, when old ladies were young and setting households with this kind of art. The redo posted by suero is a little misguided b/c it's not only the frame that updates the art but also the elongated lines, a more contemporary rendition and not "old lady".

what if queen Elizabeth got miffed @ somebody referring to one of her pics/art as "old lady" and by gosh, she is an old lady!

If we call the above painting "old lady" because it is mid-century, then what do we call the paintings of Vermeer, Da Vinci, and Renoir?

Really really really old lady, ha

ETA: Renoir for ex. Would also be dated, 19th century dated. Old lady /old man is an empty term not worth getting insulted about.

It's the framing I don't like. That beige linen strip does nothing for the picture or the frame. I'd paint it.

I'm 55. Old lady to many but I am not offended by the term. So, I am going to explain what it means to me which will probably offend some.

I don't think of the term exactly equating dated. Many things can become dated. chevron pattterns and mullet dresses and have gone in and out of style quickly. They are dated but not old lady. Truly classic art is not old lady because it doesn't go out of style.

To me, old lady is short hand for a certain type of decorating laziness or tunnel vision. I lived in a wealthy area and many houses were professionally, expensively, beautifully decorated twenty five years ago and then never touched again.

It could be because the owners don't really care about decorating but do care about appearance. Or it could be a little bit of smugness. I have made my decisions about decorating, I think it looks great and I have no reason to change.

SO, to me, the term old lady is more about the person's attitude towards decorating and change and exploring and discovering new things for their surroundings. And consequently how that attitude shows itself through the sameness of their decorating choices and spaces.

Good observations.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this thread. For some reason I don't get notifications on all the threads I post in and I didn't on this one.

Pippiep, I certainly had no intention of shaming you, and I'm very glad that you didn't take it that way. I just think that it's irksome that women are so conditioned to accept these things that we often don't even think about it.

Bossyvossy, that's very clever, but there's no getting away from the fact that "old lady" is not ever used as a compliment.

But enough about that.

That painting reminds me very much of one that was included in the decor in the cheap rental apartment I had when I got my first full time job back in 1976. At the time the artist was considered significant enough that one of the artists at work was very surprised that they would put an original by him in a rental, although I've totally forgotten the name. However, even then the one in my apartment came with a plain brushed stainless frame. I think that "Best Western" is a very good way of describing this one.

I like the painting but maybe it's because I live on the coast. Have you tried googling the artist?

You want to call me old lady go for it but I if you do I'll challenge you to a two hour trail run and then see if you feel the same. I'm 64.

I understand why some take offense to the term "old lady." An "old lady" is neither good nor bad, it's simply a description of a woman of a certain age. However, it's used in a derogatory manner when "old lady" is intended to mean something that's no longer relevant or in good fashion. Outdated, outmoded, should've been put out to pasture. ;-) Some old ladies don't give two hoots about being fashionable, but others (such as myself) view themselves as hip and fashionable, occasionally even veering off into trendy territory. "Old lady" is inevitable when it comes to aging, but "old lady" with a fusty/musty connotation is something I plan to eschew becoming for as long as humanly possible.

As for the painting, it's got a strong midcentury vibe and the frame is probably Mexican. I like the combination. The frame provides the right heft for the style and subject matter. I think a lighter frame would take away some of the moody vibe of the painting.

I agree, there is no old lady art. Art is a very personal thing and it should make us feel something when we look at it. If that painting makes you feel good, you should definitely use it. However, the frame is outdated and it's really taking away from the piece itself. A new frame and matting will do wonders

"Old lady" in common usage simply means outdated, but upon reflection it is arguably ageist.

The painting and frame are not au courant, I think that is easy to conclude. That leaves two choices. Either it is outdated or it is timeless, LOL.

I stink at selecting art. Could there be something more subjective? I cannot even pick it out for myself. I like it and then, a year later, wonder WTH I was thinking.

Unless it is being auctioned at Sotheby's without reserve, or you want to put it in DH's office over his desk, I say why not?

Thanks for all the comments so far. I do find the "old lady" conversation very helpful. In my mind, there must be a negative connotation, otherwise I wouldn't have started this thread. I don't like the term, and won't use it any more!

I went back to see it today, but my husband really hates it, and now I keep thinking "Best Western". I've been on my husband's case for his taste not evolving, and wanting to keep our rooms decorated the same way we've had them for 14+ years... so I need to be open to change, too.

I left it behind, and am OK with that! I look forward to picking out pieces with my husband, not despite his opinion.

People who don't re-decorate for years-they might be non-curious or smug. Or they might be very sentimental. Or they actually do want to change it, maybe hate it already, but changes and transitions are hard for them because that's how they are wired(look at any group of toddlers-you'd be able to spot that kid. He'd adjust of course but he won't turn to be a different person)). Or they lost somebody and keep that place as the tribute to memories. Or they don't feel well enough to do stuff. Their energy might be very limited and they need to disperse it in a way as to sill function at their best, and house things are not their top priority. Or...

Really, we often draw conclusions about other people that ultimately have very little to do with what and how they really are.

I have a friend who's an ultrasound technician, a very educated one, and a very nice girl too.

So she asks one time "Why is that many old people obviously don't take a shower before coming in? Don't they care they smell etc?'

Well..I said: "Try to imagine being a very old person. So many things that were simple are hard now. Maybe they have trouble getting dressed. Maybe they're afraid to fall in that shower. Maybe they don't feel well enough to go through all that(and they probably don't if they come for an ultrasound), and don't have any help around"

There are many explanations for why people do this or that or don't do.

I must say that very innocent thread now starts making me inadequately sad.

@writersblock, whatever happened to stick and stones can never hurt me....

if somebody uses the term to belittle One's abilities, it's their bad and it is not about the term old lady but about being malicious or hurtful. I still think that if one focuses on what they can and have done thru their long journey, old lady becomes an irrelevant term. nothing clever about this, just common sense.

I kinda like the frame but would probably refinish or paint it. I don't care for the painting at all.

It's a terrible term, certainly - ageist and sexist. That being said, to me "old lady" with reference to decor involves doilies, silk flowers, potpourri, and lots of hummel figurines (or their equivalent). Not merely dated - but dated in a specific way. Perhaps we should call it "late doily" rather than "old lady." Works for me.

Wouldn't 'old lady' fall into mom & dad jeans, dad bods etc category?

BTW, I'm old enough to remember when some guys would refer to their SO as his 'old lady' ;-)

Seems like most of us don't like the "old lady" terminology, but we know exactly what it means, so ... it's got that goin' for it. ;-)

Mary's right. We should rename it. It IS a style and we all know what it is. So a new term that covers it without reminding us how little our society values women past a certain age would be nice.

Hmmm. If everybody knows or recognizes the term (and it seems like we do), then it is real. I don't understand why changing the words makes it less real or more acceptable. Ill mannered people would still find a way to be hurtful using the new word. So not about the word so much as intent.

i have a pair of louboutin pumps and a pair of Velcro sneakers very similar to what my 90 YO FIL wears. Does it change the essence of me whether I wear one or the other? No! So why the angst?

I actually like the term "old lady". and "young lady". and just "lady". lol. probably because to me it's something that I read in books, something with this other worldly flair

It's like some people here call their daughters "Natasha"-probably sounds exotic to them:) Or many people from there call their daughters all sorts of "Michelle" and "Angelica", because to them it's more unique

I also grew up when everybody was a "comrade" or "a woman", or something along these lines. Like, in a line in a store for example you 'd hear: "Woman, sorry, I need to leave for a moment, will you tell whoever comes I'm the next in the line?"

So since it's not my native language I hear all these nuances, I do, but in a very different way..to me it's actually fun, something different, you know?

I also like "Ms" and "Mrs" and "Dear Sirs" and lots of stuff like that..because to me it's like getting in a book I guess, just a bit, and travel the pages.

(as I guess some people from here might find "comrade" exotic, maybe)

So it's hard for me to put a finger on it..why the angst, and all. Maybe it triggers lots of other things..thoughts on art, life, death..I don't know

It's not always an immediate connection..why do you start feeling sad.

I just want to add..to me, it's an extremely brave thing to ask people what do they think of art..I don't do it often..almost never. It stirs up ..stuff in you. It's very personal.

So pippiep, I think you have guts that I don't possess, for example. Or maybe it's not guts I don't know..but anyway, to me, it's admirable, and thank you for this thread. Got me sad, in a rather unpredictable way, but who said we should be happy all the time, right?

We all know lots of at least once common words and phrases that we now recognize as pejorative and avoid because why use phrases that denigrate and degrade even if that is not one's intention? Call it political correctness if you like. I call it not being rude at a minimum and, beyond that, avoiding continued complicity in harmful stereotyping and repression.

I think the frame is kind of "gas station".

But only because when we used to drive to Virginia to see my grandmother there was a particular gas station/carwash/food/_____ that also sold paintings on black velvet and they were all framed in this frame.

So it's just a personal reference.

I would sometimes call certain things "craft lady" because they seemed to be liked by women of all ages who often also liked to do crafts and went to craft shows. Like my mother once bought a casual sweater with kittens on it, and I said "That is a craft lady sweater, not a you sweater" (my mother is the sort of person who started knitting my Christmas stocking when she was pregnant with me, and finished it when I turned 21, and still paid her tailor, who also knitted at warp speed, to finish it for her on time.)

I understand that the old lady term is pejorative, but it's one of those things that is also pretty evocative--most people have an idea of what it refers to stylistically for good or bad. I know people who say oh, those are dad shorts or dad sneakers or a dad car, and that isn't quite a compliment either, but I don't know if men are bother by things like that as much unless it is in regards to relative masculinity.

I know people who say oh, those are dad shorts or dad sneakers or a dad car, and that isn't quite a compliment either,

No, but it's not the term 'dad' where the insult lies. Once again, nobody, nobody, nobody ever means anything positive when they say "old lady" in any context. You can say "He's John's dad," and no judgment of any kind is implied. (Jim, if you think calling a wife an old lady is an unloaded phrase, I suggest you try it the next time a business associate brings his wife over and see how well it goes over.)

It's like "old broad". People use that and everyone understands it, but not to mean good things.

Unfortunately, that's part and parcel of our culture and language. There are many words in our language to degrade women, to degrade persons of color, to degrade men who are not typically masculine regardless of their orientation, and to degrade people by questioning their sexual orientation. There are very very few words that can be used as a pejorative against straight white males, and to some straight white males those few terms are taken as a compliment.

On the other hand I grew up in a plain speaking family (people die in my family, people are Dead, they do not pass away, and they are not no longer with us), and my grandmother and my parents all say "I am an old woman/lady/man" and arent denigrating themselves at all by it. As in "I am an old man, I don't want to waste money on a new car, I am an old lady I would look ridiculous in that outfit" or that sort of thing.

writersblock

I know people who say oh, those are dad shorts or dad sneakers or a dad car, and that isn't quite a compliment either,

No, but it's not the term 'dad' where the insult lies. Once again,
nobody, nobody, nobody ever means anything positive when they say "old
lady" in any context. You can say "He's John's dad," and no judgment of
any kind is implied. (Jim, if you think calling a wife an old lady is an
unloaded phrase, I suggest you try it the next time a business
associate brings his wife over and see how well it goes over.)

It's like "old broad". People use that and everyone understands it, but not to mean good things.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

I never cared for the phrase myself, but I threw it out there to show how the old lady in the OP and calling a SO don't mean the same thing

BTW, I also remember growing up hearing kids say 'my old man' when referring to their dads

I know women who refer to themselves as "old broads", and even Bette Davis referred to herself that way, but this annoyed Joan Crawford no end when she used that term to refer to both of them. The head of our accounting department once proposed putting out a personal ad for herself with the title "Old Jewish Broad seeks old Jewish man". It's one thing when one uses the term to refer to oneself, but something else when it is used in the third person with malicious intent. Also, I do not think the OP's husband was trying to insult her when he used the term, as he is probably her age. It is also a different matter when it is spoken than when it is written. As Judge Millian always says, "Say it, forget it; write it, regret it."

I'm speaking solely for myself here, but the older I get, the more weary I am of being offended about so many things. And goodness knows, there's an entire world of offensive material out there, just waiting for us! (I rarely watch or listen to news reports anymore. Talk about ample opportunity for outrage!) I just don't have the mental or emotional fortitude for it nowadays. I used to think that the saying, "If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention" was so on point, but these days I find it so tiresome to be outraged. I crave inner peace so badly. I've lived through several decades of being more or less an angry woman, and I just can't anymore -- particularly when my anger/outrage does nothing more than keep me all riled up, but doesn't impact the behavior of the "offender" at all.

If a word or phrase offends someone that I know and love, I will respect their feelings and refrain from using it. I do think that expecting others to speak (or write) just as we do in a public forum is a little bit of a different animal, though - particularly over words and phrases that don't generate the same reactions in everyone. I guess I see both sides of the "old lady" argument. Is it offensive? Yes, possibly. Is it simply descriptive? Yes, possibly.

I'm really rambling, but hopefully my point can still be gleaned.

I agree that it is simply descriptive. I don't think a senior age female HAS to decorate like an "old lady." I'm in my forties, but I doubt I will switch to doilies and knick-knacks everywhere in 20 years. I can't imagine most older women would care about this term for decorating. I think our group on here is different bc we all care very much about home design, and the term has a negative connotation in our setting.

Again, I thank pippie for her graciousness as this thread sort of unwinds into a discussion of "old lady" and I really loved reading that she's decided, presumably from the opinions expressed here, that using Old Lady to describe decor isn't something she wants to do.

Ida, I am not outraged by people using the term, (as you said there is so much cause for outrage) but I honestly feel that things like this are like drops of water that drip, drip, drip and contribute to the erosion of women's standing as equal human beings on this planet. So if we don't speak up to remind people (or teach people) what power there is in their words, women (and other groups) will just continue to be demeaned - whether it's intentional or not. There are lots of things that are done unintentionally, or with no ill intent, but still impact society and the groups involved.

You make a good and valid point, Oly. I do understand where you're coming from.

Olychick -- what you said right there -- the drip, drip, drip -- is what I was feeling about this term as more and more comments came in. Even if some people aren't offended by the term, many people are... and it's clearly not a term used in a positive manner. Just like "run like a girl" or "scream like a girl". Obviously when boys are told either of those, they are being insulted. But WHY is "running like a girl" a bad thing??

Importance of such discussions in the larger context aside--and taking responsibility in contributing several comments to this thread--I think it is kind of depressing that many,if not most threads about interesting design topics pass through with maybe a dozen replies (if lucky) and not a ton of actual exchange or discussion, and a thread about a picture of no particular value (and I am not criticising the painting in saying that) gets nearly 70 replies and discussion, because people don't like the terminology someone used to describe it.

This is one of the reasons that make me wonder if the forum is slowly losing relevence. Actual design gets hardly a notice, but say the wrong thing, and the thread takes off.

I think Pal brings up a good point as well. To be honest, I am much more invested in my own personal opinions on all manner of topics (including home decor) than I am in actual knowledge of design elements. That speaks to a limited education and I don't participate in (especially) some of the more technical and academic design discussions because I would sound like an utter moron.

That's not to say that I don't sound like an utter moron when espousing my own opinions, but it's least that's an area where I'm much more sure of myself. ;-)

My MIL is 90 and refers to herself as an "old lady", because she is old. She is also an abstract painter, goes to the gym everyday, volunteers with "Meals on Wheels", and is the most hip person I know. She would not be insulted by the term "old lady" she would be insulted by the idea that simply because she is old it is assumed, she is not current or has "bad" taste. (I am not suggesting the painting is in bad taste.)

So when someone says to me, "Is this old lady?" I think of my MIL, smile and say "No." LOL