I think it's about doing something you care about and are interested in.

Clearly RBG and GS had successful careers they were/are passionate about. Such is not the case for many. In contrast, I felt my job was sucking the life out of me. There wasn't enough work so I was thoroughly bored most of the day. I did not feel respected or appreciated by management. My coworkers were nice people, but everyone kept to themselves and didn't share much personal information. There were no friendships or getting together outside of work. There were some aspects of the job I enjoyed, but it certainly wasn't enough to make me stay and finding another position in the organization was nearly impossible.

I have not yet hit my stride since retiring a little over a year ago. I spent most of 2015 tending to health concerns.......but even that was better than being at the office. I don't miss getting up at the crack of dawn or making small talk throughout the day. I don't miss the nonsense of management.

Getting up in the morning, getting dressed and going somewhere will not necessarily make you stay vital.......in my case it was the opposite. Doing things you enjoy will......and that doesn't mean it has to be a paid job....it can be sewing or golf or volunteering at the library.

I've always known, even in my 20's, that middle-age doesn't hit until you're in your 70's and that there is no such thing as old age. I'm 63 and am not yet middle-aged.

Thinking that you're not vital unless you're dressed up and going to work is, in my mind, a sad way to think. I'm up by 6:15, dressed in workout gear and either going for a 10k trail run (this is my 42nd year of running) or to the gym for a strength training session with a trainer. Home by 9 and ready to go for the day. I may not work but I'm vital, and I feel sorry for those that don't feel the same. But, each to their own. We all find value for ourselves in different ways.

Oh and I do go for lunch/coffee/ walks with my lady friends. That may be a generational thing, I don't know. It is something that my 87 year old mother has never done.

To me, the gist of the question is, what is your goal for "82" and how will you achieve it? It will vary for everyone, but I think one needs to be proactive about it. It is not narrowly about work vs not work. Most people set a goal for "where they want to be" when they are, say 30. I am just realizing I need to think about and plan for my future if I want to be more like the "old ladies" in the photo. And yes, of course, good luck or bad luck can certainly change one's plans, but we make them anyway.

The thing I, personally like about working is that it makes it more likely you come in contact with people who are different than you. Not just people in one's own demographic. I also like the fact that it offers some stress and possibility of conflict (crazy, huh?). I notice elderly people can exhibit a lot of stress over minutiae, and have come to believe we all "need" a little stress.

Ellendi, When I first cut back to three days, it was to spend more time with my young kids and to volunteer in their schools. I am so very happy DH and I have been able to do that. Now I work 1 day in the office and 1ish at home, and I am able to belong to clubs and do more volunteering, some school and some not.

Funny though, I don't think I would volunteer full time. TBH, I can't get over how cheap people are (and I mean people of significant means) and how hard it is to raise money. I am an earnest and dedicated volunteer, but I could help everyone a lot more if I went back to work full time and sent bigger checks, frankly. I'm not that special.

LisaD, Yeah, that was not pretty. DH, who follows these kinds of things more closely, stood up for GS and pointed out that she has been in the spotlight for a very long time with no major gaffes, so maybe give her some slack. But it was not only offensive and inopportune, it was dumb. And then MA's exhortation. I have never understood that line. I have tried to help other people, but not because they are or are not female. Because they are people. But to invoke it in that context? About something so important? Sheesh.

PPS Can someone clue me in about why it is bad to go to lunch/coffee/walks with lady friends. I always thought the "ladies who lunch" barb was about women who did nothing else. Kind of like they were spoiled and vapid. People seem to be impling lunch with friends is somehow bad? wha?

That was an interesting article, mtn. I am still shaking my head at Gay Talese's comments to Gloria. However, that was not unusual thinking back then and sadly for decades to follow.

I agree with blfenton on staying vital without working. I retired at 39 and wasn't married or have children. I never stayed at a job longer than two years and then would take a year off before taking another position. When I quit my last job, I never took another paying job and fortunately, I have felt fulfilled these past 28 years.

I do know that good health is everything and I appreciate each day that I feel good. I also know that it can be taken away in a nanosecond. I think that keeps me going and not take it for granted.

blfenton, I'll meet you on the trail tomorrow at 6:30 a.m. :-).

BLFenton,

My sentence was "I think getting up in the morning, getting dressed and going somewhere are vital to staying ... vital."

You are certainly proof of that! Brava.

And I feel very vital now, with three kids and two households to run, my volunteer commitments and my work. I am thinking ahead to how to stay that way for decades to come.

Well mtn - you'll appreciate this - Wikipedia does say it's usually well dressed women who meet for social lunches, typically they are married and non-working, who meet in a high class restaurant, sometimes during a shopping trip or under the pretext of fund raising.

But it also mentions that the phrase was introduced in a 1970 issue of New York magazine and then later became popularized in the Sondheim song - "The Ladies who Lunch" from Company.

It's an interesting read and a great quote from Merle Rubin who wrote the article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladies_who_lunch

Yes, I've always been curious about this, because the origin of the phrase is decidedly not complimentary, especially if you listen to Elaine Stritch sing the song.

Love that song, and all the songs from Company. It's a kinda sad song though.

Tina, I always enjoyed hearing stories about your grandmother. I'm so sorry for your loss.

My mother is 90 years old, and while physically she has issues with movement, standing or walking for long periods, she is sharp as a tack. She did not work after my brother and I were adopted somewhat later in life (for her generation...she was 36) except for a few part time jobs that were more hobbies. She is an avid crafter and is always learning new things. This, I think, is critical. Being open to new technology, new skills, new experiences, etc. She lives in a continuing care retirement community in independent living. This was also a benefit because there are so many more social and learning opportunities in this environment. She had grown somewhat stagnant in her routines. When my family moved away 8 years ago she said she would never move, however, within a year she decided to follow us and the CCRC seemed the best option for her at that time. This move probably added years to her life in terms of the relationships, activities and opportunities available to her here. The people who live in this community are fascinating, vibrant people for the most part...but I have only met those in independent living. I'm sure it is somewhat different as you move into assisted living and skilled nursing care. They are all reading a book right now called something "Live Long, Die Short" and having the author in to speak.

Judy the lurker

Thank you Shay, Outside and Jmck. I loved her dearly and certainly looked up to her. She and my mother (who passed away at 72) were such major influences in my life. For some reason, it seems like a generation was skipped and my grandmother and I were much more alike than my mother and I or my grandmother and my mother. We had a special relationship. I know though that she had a long and happy life and I was blessed to have had her this long. I have missed my mom so much these last 5 years, now to have my grandmother gone is truly a blow. Thank you for listening to my stories and for your good thoughts!

Due to health issues, I'll be retiring from my job in a few years. I work in a field that requires a lot of physical ability, and my mobility is declining, so I'll go on to pursue my other passions instead. I plan to be a vibrant old lady when the time comes. This photo is my muse, it speaks to me of who I want to be as an old woman. dressed in faded denim, covered in turquoise jewelry, collecting rocks and sticks in the desert and crating art from them. Being a story teller and teaching people to recycle and love Mother Earth and how to plant a gorgeous garden using native plants. Learning astronomy and teaching my grandchildren about lizards.

I have no plans whatsoever to fade into the background. I've got too many rock concerts to attend while my rock gods are still alive!

Fabulous, Neetsie! A muse!

Love your attitude Neetsie!

"Attitude" is key. Not mentioned in the article is that Ruth Bader Ginsburg has survived colon cancer and pancreatic cancer and relatively recently had a heart stent (because she noticed a problem during her gym workout), all without missing much of a beat. "Notorious RBG", indeed! Both women are heroines of mine.

I was very fortunate to be able to change course and go back to school during my 40's (including taking calculus for the first time!), finally getting a master's degree in ecology with a restoration emphasis. I am now in my early 60's and can see doing this (consulting and teaching biology at the local community college) for a long time still (I did have to take one semester off to have surgery done last year, but that was just a blip). What else would I do?

As for the ladies who lunch - I have a wonderful group of 5 women friends and we try to get together once a month for lunch. It started when we all had children who were high school juniors and we volunteered to plan the Post Prom all night party. We really enjoyed each other's company and decided to continue our meetings and we're now in our 20th year. We all had careers and it was difficult at times to schedule.

Now we're retired from full time work but each of us is active in various volunteer activities - church work, social work, crisis hot line, the food bank - and the others do their share of watching the grandchildren (I'm still out of work on that front).

Every now and then we plan a special day - a trip to Longwood Gardens, a Broadway show, exhibits at a museum or even just a day at the beach.

As my parents aged I watched their friendships dwindle and health issues increase and their world seemed to narrow. It's important to me to stay involved and 'vital'.

My dad is a good role model for aging well. He turns 81 this month and still works 5 days/week and goes to the gym every day. In fact, he changed gyms because he was annoyed that his old one was closed on Sundays. At 59, he took early retirement from a job he had hated for 30+ years. My mother had just passed away and he had all this time on his hands. His friends recruited him for a bunch of volunteer things, one of which was delivering for Meals on Wheels. Before long, he was hired as the area coordinator (paid job, not volunteer) and now he has been doing it for over 20 years. It is the perfect job for him and he loves going to work every day. He works about 9-2, then goes to the gym. And at least 3 nights a week, he is volunteering at one of his other gigs (bingo, Elks dinners). Meanwhile, he has outlived his second wife and for the last two years has had a casual girlfriend...who is 20 years younger than him! He never complains. He says "the doctor says I'm amazing" and "the key is that I keep my mind and body active." At 81, the only sign of aging I see is that he often repeats himself and his hearing isn't good (which he refuses to admit!).

On the flip side, my mother was "an old lady" for most of the time I can remember her, and yet she died at 55. She didn't have friends, she was suspicious of most people, did not exercise or eat right, and ignored symptoms of ovarian cancer until it was too late (she didn't like to go to the dr. because "he's going to tell me I'm too fat"). So there's a lesson there, too.

My two best friends and I sometimes talk about how we want to age -- now that we are all around 50. We often joke about wanting to live in a commune together, the 6 of us (with husbands) and take care of each other. Not a bad idea, really.

I have been very fortune to have such a woman as a role model. She was 94 when she passed last summer. Until the end she was glamorous, intelligent, well read, principled and accomplished. We always had great conversations about things going on in the world and what we thought about them. We never discussed illness or problems. "Just too boring," she would say. She was part of the Greatest Generation and, having had a world war during her formative years, everything else did seem like nonsense I suppose.

My friend became a lawyer in 1947. She was one of two women in her law class. She was a successful lawyer all her life, worked for the surrogates court in NYC and in the family court. She was a mother who had a great relationship with all her children and never interfered. Had a successful and celebrated husband, traveled and had a very glamorous life until the last 20 years when her husband was wheelchair bound. She handled that restriction the same way she handled everything else. Effortlessly.

I was always fascinated by what she had lived through. I asked her once what it had been like to be young during WWII. Was it like the movies? It was she said. I found out about the Spanish Civil War and why it was so important to her generation.

Our relationship was improbable from the standpoint that we got to know each other through out husbands. But it was a huge bonus for me, and a privilege. If I can be as vital and intelligent and independent as she was into very old age I will feel my life has been well lived. Hers was. And boy, what an example and how lucky I am to have known her.

Last two postings are inspiring. I get that you can/should do things to improve longevity as long as you don't obsess and believe you are 100% in control. Easier said than done

Like maire_cate I became friends with 6 women from my kids' high school and have kept the relationship going for nearly 20 yrs. I'm ashamed to admit that when I was a young working woman I felt somewhat disdainful of women "who lunched." How nice, I thought, to be so carefree - out & about, lingering over a good meal, nicely dressed and coiffed, just gabbing and laughing the time away.

Boy, life can school you. The women in my group are remarkable role models. Some are accomplished in their professional fields and some have been tireless volunteers for people in need. All have been great moms. Two have recently lost their spouses and showed bravery and resilience during & after losing their life partners "too young". Some have fought tough medical challenges themselves. This little group has faithfully rallied around one another through bad times and to celebrate the good.

My Mom didn't cultivate friends of her own. She came from a large family & was close to her siblings, but none lived nearby. She was old fashion in her belief that a woman shouldn't go out socially without her husband. So since my Dad was content to stay home & putter, my Mom rarely went out unless it was with me. While I enjoyed being with her and taking her places, it sometimes was an emotional burden that hung over me. It's hard being everything to someone. And I never wanted to put that on my kids.

So to the casual observer, lunching ladies may look like indulged women frittering away their time. But now I know that the cheeriness may be celebrating someone's last chemo treatment and that it probably took a lot of effort to get one date when they all could gather, given work obligations or caregiving for a parent with Alzheimer's. The event or venue isn't the point, it's making the effort to be there and keeping the connection alive.

I believe wholeheartedly that while the love of a spouse/family is a gift, the importance of having your own true friends can't be overstated.

To those who are happy and productive in their retirement years, I apologize if my initial post offended. I don't believe it's necessary for everyone to continue working as long as they can. I believe it's necessary for me to work as long as I can. I know myself too well--I would not be productive as a retiree.

(Joaniepoanie, I spent just 2 years at a dreadfully mundane job and do believe one can indeed "die from boredom." I'm glad you're out of that situation.)

As for ladies who lunch, my friends and I have built our calendars around some sort of regular socialization at every point in our adult lives. When kids were little, it was playdates and volunteering. As they got older, we'd try to lunch but when some of us went back to work, it became evening get-togethers. We've read plenty of anecdotal evidence in the stories above about elderly people who benefitted from regular socialization throughout their lives. Whether it's lunch or book club or concerts, I'll always be a lady-who-does-something-with-the-ladies.

I didn't mean to offend when I commented my mom never "lunched" -she just didn't. Didn't sit sill long enough. Total type A. Tough to live with sometimes... I was just trying to connect to the article. Didn't mean lunching or socializing was bad at all.

amck2 - nicely said.

missymoo12 - I didn't take offense. I hope my comment didn't indicate that but I will stand up for those who do go for lunch or coffee with their girlfriends. I know some people don't do anything without their husbands (one of my running partners is like that) but there is such value in having girlfriends.

My husband took suggested early retirement ( fancy word for lay-off) when he was 60 and the first thing I told him was that I wasn't his hobby. He needed at the least to reconnect with some male friends which he hadn't had in his 40 years of working. It has done wonders for him. He has a hiking buddy, a skiing buddy and he just organized a group of the neighbourhood men to go out for a burger and then to a junior hockey game. The guys loved it and have picked a date for next year.

I think having girlfriends adds an extra dimension to one's life as a female. It adds a level of understanding that men just don't get no matter how many times you explain a situation or an emotion to them! Oh, and the same for guys.

My mother is a vital 93. She no longer drives, has endured numerous health conditions, has lost almost all of her close friends. She is strong, independent-minded, lives alone in her own house, cooks her own meals, keeps track of a laundry list of medicines she takes on a daily basis. Has a dislike for dairy products and has never drank milk her entire life. Strong bones genetically must have saved her from fractures during two falls. Never worked after having children. Her identity in life was not from a career. Being a mom, a wife and having a thankful attitude keep her focused and appreciative for the things which we really have no control over. Waking each morning, the gift of children, and a good husband whom she lost almost 30 years ago are blessings in her life.

Being vital can mean so many different things. Having a grateful heart, giving to others, making a difference in someone else's life. When the job is stripped away, we are left with just ourself. It is a difficult transition in some respects, but it's also an opportunity to really find out who we are as individuals.

I haven't read all the posts but I can offer this: Ten years ago I was a woman who never wanted to retire I loved my business and couldn't imagine not getting up and going to work every day. I truly thought I wanted to work every day until I died. I am a very goal oriented person.

My DH and I had the opportunity to sell our businesses and we took the opportunity. Within two months I was starting another business. I grew the business and sold it this past July. I knew that I didn't want to start another business. At least not one where I needed employees.

My goal went from growing businesses to having fun and enjoying the years I have left doing things I didn't have time to do as a SAHM, a nursing student, and an entrepreneur. I wake up each morning with a smile on my face and gratefulness for a life well lived and the blessing of another day.

I used to scoff at people who said they had no idea how they had ever found time to work, once they were retired but now I know exactly what they meant. I sold my business seven months ago and haven't spent a minute wishing myself back. I have been busier in retirement than I was in my business.

I am having the time of my life reading, pursuing sketching and drawing, enjoying classical music, puttering around the house, and spending more time with my family.

Arapaho nailed it when she said "Being vital can mean so many different things. Having a grateful heart, giving to others, making a difference in someone else's life. When the job is stripped away, we are left with just ourself. It is a difficult transition in some respects, but it's also an opportunity to really find out who we are as individuals".

One other thought ... Mtnrdredux, maybe not having a job has provided you with time to be on this forum and the opportunity to get to know all of us who frequent here. Sharing your home, your projects, your take on life and your fabulous taste has been a unique and valuable contribution to this forum.

I've never said it before, but I truly appreciate the GW's I got to know back at the old site and have continued to follow here. So thank you!

And when I sit down here I always have a cup of coffee in my hand. It's my time for coffee and GW friends. :)

I think I missed the negative comment, if there was one, about lunching ladies. I have lunch or breakfast with my closest friends about once a month and it is always a highlight of my week! We are certainly not lunching at the country club, though -- we are at a diner or something similar!

I also take a trip with my 2 best friends once a year (one significant trip -- we usually manage to get one night away at the beach too, once a year), which is great fun to plan, look forward to, experience, AND reminisce about afterwards! We are going to Nashville in just a few weeks for 4 days. I swear it's the occasional lunches and the trips that keep us feeling young and fun. I can't imagine not having a social life at my age (my mother never did, and the older I get, the more sad I feel for her). My DH is great but he's no substitute for girlfriends!

blfenton mentioned GW friends. I am also grateful for the folks who pop by here regularly. I've learned much about decorating and so much more.

I have a full life with family & friends nearby but I really appreciate logging on and finding familiar people and a sense of community. If I can't sleep, if DH is traveling for work, if I'm stuck in doctors' waiting rooms (a lot of that lately) it's a pleasure and comfort to find good conversation and companionship among the many nice people here.

I think this is a great topic-- and very timely for me as I have spent a lot of time thinking and talking about this recently.

Until recently, I have been very job focused-- to the exclusion of ALL else. In a very unhealthy way, I based my self image .. and ultimately my self worth on my work. It worked for me through a lot of my years but after some pretty major changes culminating with a merger with a company to which I did not feel aligned, I suddenly felt myself with nothing. Yeah, I had work-- but I didnt feel good about it. There were lots of other changes .. and there will be more until I settle into something I love as much. So now I am focused on rekindling my interests and finding better balance in my life. My goal is to weave a much richer and more colorful tapestry.. borrowing from Carole King.

I have considered going back to school to change the direction of my career but honestly, I don't know that I want to invest that much in my work. I do want to work.. maybe own a business.. but I want much more and I want it on my terms.

It's interesting that I number of women my age (and a little older) have recently started very successful businesses.. also many are breaking into new artistic hobbies. Like someone else mentioned, I don't think we look like the 50 yo women of our mother's generations.. and we definitely don't live their lives.

I am excited to see what 60, 70 and 80 look like.. and 90 if I follow in the footsteps of my maternal grandmother and great grandmother!

And on that note, TInaM, I was so sorry to read that your grandmother had passed. I know she was a big part of your life and I loved hearing your stories of her. She clearly had much joy for living and was blessed to have had such a long and beautiful life. I know your heart must ache but I hope you find peace in your many memories and the knowledge that you carry her on in your own spirit!

What a wonderful role model for you to have had, Roco!!

Arapaho, that's very sweet of you. Thank you!

Thank you sweet Funky!!

I started working when I was about 10 and then worked full-time beginning at age 18 and continuing through till age 59, getting married, earning my bachelor's degree and raising two boys along the way.

I retired last year - I was simply burned out. I remember looking at women who didn't work, thinking what a luxurious life they must lead. Go to the grocery store at 10:00 a.m.? Visit the library in the middle of the afternoon? Have a day totally free of any obligations? Unheard of for me. Ever.

Clearly I remember my first step out the door of my building on my last day of full-time employment. It was at the end of April, blue sky, sunshine and warm. Such a feeling of freedom and eagerness for the future!

Now, less than a year later, I am still finding my balance. I work about 10 hours a week (at the same place where I worked full-time) and a couple of hours a month for a local civic board. I don't really need the money, but these little jobs are weaning me out of the workforce gradually, as I didn't want to quit cold turkey. As I have so many years of experience at my place of employment, I am treated with great respect there by all. I am working on little chores around the house (when I retire, I will have time to . . . .), but I'm not sure those little chores will ever end.

Mostly, I feel that I really don't know how I found time to work full-time - I am so busy now. There's always something in front of me to do. And I don't need to be vital - I was vital for many years - but now it's time for me. I have earned it.

".... I remember looking at women who didn't work, thinking what a luxurious life they must lead. Go to the grocery store at 10:00 a.m.? Visit the library in the middle of the afternoon? Have a day totally free of any obligations? Unheard of for me. Ever."

Is this what you truly believed? That those of us who didn't work had days totally free of any obligations? Really?! How dare you.

You know nothing about us.

I didn't take that comment as an insult - - especially when you consider the last paragraph where she realizes how busy she is now - without working full time.

@dsg - I count myself lucky, truly.

The last time we spoke, I called her on a Tues. She sounded awful, like she had bronchitis. She would never say talk about illness or say what was wrong -- she would just ask "can I call you back?" In her mind, no explanation was necessary because I was smart enough to understand that she wasn't feeling well. I waited until Friday and called again. Her daughter answered the phone. I said hello and told her I was calling to see how her mom was doing as I'd spoken to her earlier in the week and she didn't sound well. "Yes," she said, "She has a note here on her desk to call you back." Then she told me she had passed earlier that morning.

Total lack of drama. Total respect in the knowledge that a friend gets it all. She set such a high bar.

Tina, I'm thinking of you as you remember and celebrate your sweet grandmother. (((((Hugs)))))

I actually LOVED Elaine Stritch for so many reasons. And the song isn't necessarily about the act of ladies going out to lunch but a particular kind of unhappiness that can creep into your life for a variety of reasons, which I won't go into since it isn't the topic of the post.

As for "old ladies" I am not having lunch with a bunch, but tea this afternoon. All of my mom's old friends that I could gather. And it's because I need a dose of THEIR VITALITY. Like a lot of you, they are my role models, and they "lunched" to share ideas and support each other in the work that they did every day to bring love and light into the world!

May I suggest, blfenton, that your comments regarding my post were unnecessarily harsh. Of course I was not suggesting that those who do not work enjoy an endless schedule of "days totally free of obligations." That would have been incredibly presumptuous and rude of me to assume such.

I was trying to explain, perhaps not very clearly, that to those who work every day, all day, the idea of being able to visit the grocery store NOT at noontime or 5 p.m. right after work - when the store is packed - is a luxury. That waking up in the morning and not having to go to work and therefore being able to schedule one's day at one's own pleasure - is a luxury.

Maybe my idea of luxury, and your idea of luxury, are two very different things. Perhaps you do not know us at all.

I don't know if I'll make it 82 -- probably not.

I say, strive for a "healthy" lifestyle but know there are no guarantees; live each day as if it were your last; seek and experience joy, be grateful, help others. Living a happy, positive life, with or without housedresses or makeup, is enough for me to strive for, however long I live.

@blfenton its not to insult some as the @maire_cate said in his comment. She just want to tell us that its really busy time when they are free and didn't work anywhere but see they are busy with their whole day plans.

I was fortunate to be a SAHM, and I did appreciate it. I agree littlebug, that those that had to work full time, plus raise their kids, had it harder.

I did try to step in when I could. Invite the child who's mom/dad couldn't to the baking project, so that child could participate. Or, offer to drive a child home from ice skating so they didn't have to go to after care. I felt lucky to be able to do these things.

A friend who worked full time confided in me her "Oh no, heart sinking feeling", when she got to work and realized she forgot the permission slip, or to pack the special sports equipment etc. as there would be no way to correct the problem.

Littlebug - I was a working mom until I wasn't. I know both sides of the coin. And if you really think that I got to get up in the morning and schedule my own day you are sadly mistaken. There are days when I would have loved to still be working. To actually talk to another human being, to not have to drag screaming toddlers to the grocery store and pick-up the buggy of stuff that they dumped on the floor, to not be the go-to person because the working mom's school pick-up fell through, getting those phone calls from working moms stuck in traffic and needing to get little Johnnie to soccer practice. SAHM's and part-time SAHM's (and some dads) are the ones who keeping the schools running with more and more funding cut-backs. The volunteer work that I did at the school was in itself a full-time job.

Shopping at 5 without kids hanging onto me would have been a luxury, drinking an entire cup of coffee without re-zapping it because it got cold would have been a luxury, having a peaceful 30 minute commute to set myself up for the day would have been a luxury.

Your type of attitude is what leads to the unacceptance of SAHM's as valued people. We have a place and it is an important one.

I'm done with this conversation.

Running, you stated perfectly what I was thinking.

@runningplace well said..!!

As another who was both a SAHM and a mother who worked outside the home (single mother after divorce), I have to say that IMHO littlebug is not wrong in what she said. Runningplace is correct in all she says I think, but perhaps kinder than I.

Frankly, I never found it difficult to shop with my child and he wasn't "hanging onto" me. Few of my daily commutes are peaceful due to traffic. I did not drag screaming toddlers anywhere and if we were somewhere when a tantrum started, I would scoop them up and leave or stand back and watch until they stopped, which didn't take long. I do not think anyone is judging SAHMs as less, but it is different. I much preferred being home. Now, I do both the work at home and the work at a job. I teach, so that has its own issues. In my 20 year career, no parent has ever been at school volunteering to the point of it being anywhere near a full-time job. Perhaps you do, I can't say, but the work parents do is very different from what is normally required in a job for which you are paid. I volunteered also. I even planned leave, so I could do so at least a couple of times a year in our elementary school.

I had much more control over my schedule when I was home. I do consider being home when a child gets home from school, being able to pick him or her up from school, being a den mother or scout leader, not being too exhausted to help with homework, not having to be dressed and ready for a job before a child leaves for school, etc. a luxury. It sounds as if blfenton is very stressed, defensive, and resentful and perhaps staying at home is not working so well for her, but I don't think littlebug is the one with an attitude. If staying at home is so awful, maybe a return to work should be considered. I, for one, would absolutely love to have been able to do that.

There's a lot of things I still want to do with my life that I just can't, plain and simple. When I was younger, I felt like I could/would be able to do a lot of them, because I felt I had time. Now I am acutely aware that I don't have that much time left, and yet I don't get to chose how I spend my time. I have to work and I have to take care of an aging parent, leaving little time for me. I want to be a vibrant old person, have a rewarding retirement, but I think that by the time I can "retire" from both work and parent care (the folks in my family are long lived) I will be worn out myself! I know my dear cousin is looking at a lifetime of caregiving between her aged father and her grandkids since her messed up daughter keeps having babies she can't take care of. I doubt she is an exception nowdays. Anyway, she also doesn't look near as "old" as you might think she is, because at 63, she is raising young grandchildren. So our stereotype of an "old lady" is just what we think it is, grounded in reality for only a few people who fit the idealized conditions, one way or the other. I find the gross stereotypes in the media rarely fit with the general reality of the times.

Cyn, I wrote a comment similar to yours but deleted before posting. I was a SAHM and counted my blessings every single day. My kids were a joy to be with day in and day out and I was so grateful I had the luxury to do so. My hat goes off to working moms!

Ha, dsg-I probably should have deleted, but at my age I tend to say what I think more than in the past. I am also less tolerant of angry people.