Well Moses I'll give you my humble opinion. I grow cloud ten and it is slow to go right now , in comparison to what new Dawn would be. I had new Dawn in pa and it took off and covered my small shed. Beautiful spring bloom then just a little rebloom . Pairs well with a clematis. So cloud ten will rebloom but mine (2nd year grafted ) hasn't begun climbing yet . It's nice and mannerly at the moment. To my recall no defoilation from black spot and I'll go look this morning but I don't think it has any yet, and a lot of my roses have it . I love that each cluster has multiple buds that open at different times so it seems like more roses are always on the way.

If I needed to cover a large area quickly and knew I was never going to need to move that rose I would pick new Dawn with a clematis to add bloom .

I wish I could say cloud ten was the answer but it just isn't quick yet. In a month with more heat I could let you know more! It is an excellent rose and I recommend it in general. It is not wimpy at all and looks like it wants to take off !

You are going to have to do a fair amount of pruning to keep New Dawn in that confined a space. A grafted New Dawn would cover that space the first year. I'd go for something small and mannerly that would be more in line with the area to fill. Possibly a hybrid musk would be good. I know nothing about Cloud 10, so have no idea how large it would want to be.

Sorry to keep coming back. I looked over my notes and last year the whole season cloud ten never had black spot . Also I took a photo this morning of what it is looking like. This rose has a slightly pepper scent to me. Although darlows enigma is close by and maybe I was picking that up

Thanks Lily Finch and Mad Galica. It appears Cloud 10 is the way to go for me.

The battle with New Dawn to keep it in line in the space available, as Mad Galicia pointed out, and its stingy rebloom are big negatives. It sure is beautiful though in full bloom, as your photos show, Lilyfinch, and in the same kind of fence setting it would be growing on here.

A strong clue as to Cloud 10's potential generous bloom production is the fact that under your care, Lilyfinch, it is blooming its head off as a young climber....not typical of a reluctant bloomer. If it does that for me, I will be delighted. Most climbers don't come into their full blooming potential until they develop for a number of years. Then they give a great first flush, doing very little until the following spring.

Plus, it is a Radler rose...lots of good qualities seem to be the norm with any rose he introduces, except for Rainbow Knockout, a dud, IMHO.

Thanks again, Lilyfinch, for you leaving no leaf unturned, very thoughtful of you, with your numerous photos, dodging traffic to get them! It helped me out a lot. Mad Galicia, thanks for pointing out the battle I would encounter keeping New Dawn in line. Both of your knowledgeable inputs saved me from making a big blunder.

Moses

If you want big, my Awakening (sport of New Dawn) reblooms a lot despite shade. I have read that this sport has more petals and reblooms more than ND. Covered 15 ft in its 2nd year. First bloom this year.

Thanks for that info, totoro. I accidentally ordered Awakening and am glad to hear I didn't just get a ND duplicate as I already have five of those! : 0

I have 9 New Dawn and 3 White Dawn, 3 small Awakening. A lot of thorns. :-) Deadheading is the key for New Dawn to repeat.

I do deadhead my Awakening though it is a pain. This is third year on the 3 trellises against the fence. There is another rose on the right trellis that Awakening is encroaching upon.

Lilyfinch- your Cloud 10 is beautiful. I just ordered two of these from a vendor on Etsy. Her roses are organically grown own root. A bit small but reasonable price- $12 each and shipping for two from Oregon to MA was only $12. I have three more roses on order and shipping is $18. These are band size but very healthy. She has a small but nice variety of roses for sale with quite a few Kordes. I have 'Honeymoon', 'Love Song', 'Floretina', and 'Tequila Supreme' on order.

I hope my 'Cloud 10' is as lovely, healthy and floriferous as yours.

sharon

Moses -

i just wanted to report back to you that my cloud ten in wrapping up its first flush, probably be done at the middle or end of next week . Over a month after its first blooms opened . My photos show April 18 for the first pic I took so it must have started opening around then. I am very impressed with it ! I just gave it some fish fertilizer and more bloom and will be top dressing with compost here soon.

I hope you were able to find one !

Sharon , good luck with yours! It sounds like you got some beautiful roses form etsy . I ordered honeymoon from roses unlimited and can't wait to see it

Lilyfinch- thanks for the fertilizer tips. My roses are quite a bit behind yours even though we're border line zone6 but high elevation, 900 ft. I'm slowly getting my roses planted and repainted with their vole deterrent in place. Just sooo much work in between the rain. Thankfully they don't attack my garden throughout he growing season so as long as I get everything ready before the ground freezes I'm good. I haven't decided where Cloud 10 is going yet. My Knockouts do well in some shade so they may be going in the shadier part of my front garden which gets about 5 hours of sun.

Good luck with your Honeymoon Rose. I'm hoping to see a couple of flowers on mine this year. She's only on her second season but growing nicely. Fingers crossed. :-)

Sharon