knocking on wood...I can honestly say we've only had 1 bad renter in the 15 yrs or so that I have been living in my condo. This lady had people living out of her garage and they'd pee outside in people parking spots. Enough people complained that it didn't take long to get them out...especially knowing how long an actual eviction process can take.

Mixed feelings. I don't really mind who is next door to me, as long as they are considerate.

No one that I know of is doing this. However, a neighbor up the street has rented out her basement, it has bathroom and kitchen. Previous owners had their daughter, DH and kids living down there so it was set up like an apartment.

I think the new owner was called out on it though and had to stop. We are zone as a single family neighborhood.

That said, I would be upset if this was going on in either one of my DD's co-ops. There was an issue in one where the subletter was subletting! The new people were noisy and the board got them out. I don't like the idea of strangers being able to get into the building. Unless it's a special key that can't be copied like Medco, what's to stop someone from making a copy of the front door key and having access to the building.

We're not supposed to be able to rent out houses until it was under ownership for two years, but it does happen. One family got transferred to Sweden so they rented out their less than two year old house. No way would I do that. The guy across the street rents to what appears to be a college kid. I don't have a problem with the kid, he seems polite. The owner makes him park in the street with is against HOA rules. He does cause a problem for us with backing out and traffic. I think someone must have complained because he now parks in the driveway.

My town which is a tourist destination is struggling to find the right approach to short-term rentals. I don't think anyone wants their next door neighbor in a neighborhood of SFHs to be a commercial venture. Also, because landlords can make more money with short-term rentals, there are almost no long-term rentals available.

I have very mixed feelings about these arrangements, mostly negative. I understand vacation rentals like chisue has - we have a favorite condo location in her Maui town of Kihei, also another on Kauai. These are units zoned and permitted to operate in this way and they are what they are. People don't buy homes in such developments expecting to play catch with Junior in the driveway and have a barbeque with the next door neighbors on the weekend.

There are no short-term rentals in my neighborhood - it's not permitted by the CCRs (see other thread about HOAs) - and I wouldn't want to have one nearby. We've rented a few large houses through VRBOs for family get-togethers on holidays and I would say the experience has been so-so. It's hard to find a place with large enough capacity and with just one exception, the few others we did find were underwhelming.

A few years ago we lived in a larger apartment building (all rented apartments). A number of the seniors would winter in Florida and sub-let their apartments, often to college kids. This didn't last long though it quickly ended after there were break-ins in the underground parking garage and it was found to be friends of the renters.

Thanks. I think some here are confusing leasing a property for months or years with what I'm talking about.

These are Short Term Vacation Rentals. People advertise online offering to rent anything from a guest room up to an entire house. They rent for as little as ONE NIGHT. People are arriving and departing at all hours. Most are 'on vacation' -- not quiet mice. There's no vetting of who is renting. These are not temporary *neighbors*.

With this activity, no one knows who 'belongs' in the neighborhood and who doesn't. While I think some parents go overboard with the "Stranger Danger" stuff, I sure don't like this -- and neither do the police.

May I ask you to call up VRBO.com or Airbnb.com and tell me if you find listings in the area where you pay homeowner taxes?

There's one down the street from me. It was a tiny mountain cabin, real chinking....fully updated &remodeled it rents by the night.....and it does rent! I walk by it every day coming home from my 7 mile/walk-run. Usually there 's a fat lout sitting on the front porch making rude comments....or maybe a nice person that says "Hello". I'm good with it....

dedtired....My renters have 1 year leases and several just renewed. They "do" take care of the lawn. One just hired a lawn service.....

Our CC&Rs don't have anything in them about short term rentals, and so far the board has yet to move on something in the way of guidance regarding the issue - but we are a gated planned residential development that requires key and/or remote gate access with a limit on how many keys can be issued per unit (kind of like the number of parking spaces excluding the garages which are not attached in all cases, you can only have as many of them as you have licensed adult drivers - a 2 bed gets one space and one garage so the logic is that 2 licensed adults reside there - if there are three then one will have to park in guest spaces or make some other arrangements because the way the developer set things up on the property resulted in limited parking, it didn't consider a future where people would have a third car that was non-operational or an economy where people might need to bring in others to help pay the rent so that a 2 or 3 bed could have 5 or 6 adults who all have cars.) This has been an issue in recent years to the point where we now have a company that patrols and then tows vehicles not 'safelisted' or with the plate registered to the occupant of a home here on file. To some degree we're limited to how many vehicles we can 'safelist' through the company's online portal but some have figured out ways to get around that limit. We've got pools and the property is probably pretty attractive not to mention safe when it comes to those looking for a short term rental, only time will tell if it gets to be a major problem but right now it's only a barely noticeable issue since there aren't too many owners who are offering this, the majority of our landlords who live elsewhere (rather than simply renting a portion of the home they also reside in here) have regular lease-holding tenancies.

Chisue, I looked and there are two at the edge of my neighborhood of small, older single family homes. Both are new listings, so no reviews yet.

We're not a vacation town, but we do have a large university. I imagine graduation days and football weekends could be popular.

I forgot to mention that my HOA is located a short drive from some of the major tourist destinations in SoCal, so while the walls and gates may keep some would-be-landlords-of-short-term-rentals out, it's unlikely to prevent all of them from starting up here (and hasn't, just limits how many we've got thus far) so there are many owner-occupants concerned as well as traditional lease holding tenants worried that they might lose out if a landlord is replaced by one of the more short-term property rental operating type.

If anyone is running an AirBnB around me, I have yet to notice it. But I'm not in a high-destination location. Perhaps at graduation time the local college might draw in parents and relatives, but that would be fine by me.

I've never stayed at an AirBnB... When planning trips lately, it just hasn't occurred to me to do so. (I've been letting Motel 6 leave the light on for me!)

EDIT: I just checked the two sites - VRBO lacks any listings near me, but there are a few located on the lake on the other side of town. AirBnB lists one on the road behind me. I checked it out, the owners are in residence, so it's not like whomever rents there would be able to get away with being loud/rude/whatever for any time.

Although we knew short term rentals were permitted when we bought our Maui condo in 2001, at that time the majority of owners lived there. Fast forward to now...only six of 316 units are NOT short term rentals.

It appears that I may be the only person on this forum who has lived in this kind of situation. We use our condo January - March. I do not want this transient experience at my home in Illinois. My home neighborhood is zoned single family residential, and I want it to stay that way. I don't want boarding houses, party houses, or short term vacation rentals.

Do not buy into the Airbnb ads showing some poor widow managing to get by because she can 'host' guests. Many of these rentals are entirely investment properties with non-resident owners. The properties turn more profit as short term rentals than they would by leasing them long term. Their owners pay RE taxes as 'homeowners', but they are running short term rental businesses.

Ours is a prosperous community. Homeowners pay substantial taxes to maintain a pretty community with a lakefront beach. I don't want to subsidize a business selling all that in an area not zoned for it.

I wouldn't want to see commercial STRs in my HOA either, but right now we don't have a specific rule in the CC&R preventing them which leaves the door open to that becoming a more common situation and at that point how will the board be able to change course and stop allowing them while still complying with all the legal stuff that the Davis Stirling act obligates HOAs to in California.

Our home is not in a 'destination' area either. I'm just trying to get out in front of this. All but one of the Airbnb rentals near me was first listed within the last year. This isn't stopping. On the contrary, it's being encouraged by Airbnb and VRBO -- because they profit from every additional rental. It would be easier to keep the Genie in the bottle than try to stuff him back in if you sit and wait.

Don't your towns or cities have regulations, along with an added layer from your HOA? Our city does the zoning, sets floor area ratio, setbacks, etc. Seems to me, this is a zoning issue that needs to be tightened.

So far the city in which my HOA is located hasn't decided what should be done about or even had the city council have STRs on a meeting agenda - though I do know some nearby cities with new regulations for sober living homes and are either in the process of making or have made rules for short term rentals but that is limited to certain neighborhoods and/or home types; a single family home being more likely to not be allowed to operate as a short term rental but multifamily dwellings especially those in the new luxury developments that have been popping up in the last 5 or so years are allowed to have STRs. The Davis Stirling act in California statutory law was created for the guidance and legal benefit of the HOAs it applies to and in some ways means that there are special rules and conditions the municipality/city would face a difficult road if they were to want to change something and make it apply to HOAs within their borders not just residences and businesses who are not within a privately held incorporated community. We are a city within a bigger city.

ETA: I purchased my home back when I was a newly younger adult and single person and having a safe home that didn't require a lot from me in terms of outside maintenance was important. But now things are changing, I'm married and both he and I have had some very enticing job offers recently that may ultimately mean we relocate to another state and buy a larger home and it may or may not be in a HOA.

Chisue, I can understand that concern, from what you've described happening at your winter condo home. I am not in an HOA, and in my region of town, people have always been allowed to run home businesses - when I moved here, my next door neighbor ran an answering service (an industry that has largely crashed, although apparently my vet still makes use of one for late night pet emergencies...) I am pretty sure I haven't seen this issue make the docket at town meetings.

City/town here does do setbacks, and zoning. And there is a limit on the number of unrelated adults than can live in a home. But that's "live in", not visit or spend a few nights.

I know when I lived in a condo in a different town, being able to get mortgages to own in that complex went on a disastrous spiral from a homeowner's perspective when more than a certain percentage of those became rental properties - and those were long-term rentals because AirBnB didn't exist in the '80s. To sell that place, I had to take some of their mortgage risk upon myself. It worked out, and I basically broke just under even (dip in housing market prices anyway then), but there are scenarios where this may not have worked out.

I think considering the newness of this short term rental via Internet plan, these things do need to be discussed in the various towns. Any zoning regulation changes can indeed be made to be separate from controlling ALL home businesses.

I will be moving from my town to a rural town in western Massachusetts, and I suspect that there, at least short term, their needs may differ. I'll check later to see if there are any listings in my future town...

Thanks for the input! I'm still hoping to get my city just north of Chicago to get MOVING on this.

That's really all one can do - someone has to bring the subject up with the officials and if everyone is sitting on their hands hoping someone else will do it, it won't get done at all. I know you're probably not happy that it looks like it's going to have to be you that puts forth the effort when it will benefit a whole lot of others too and they're all standing around but sometimes that's how it goes if you want something done. Good luck!

I have used AirBnB many times for personal travel with my wife, and even a couple of times for business travel. I greatly prefer staying at an AirBnB to staying at an anonymous corporate motel/hotel.

More recently, since buying our new house, we've been renting out the basement apartment via AirBnB. Thus far we've had approximately 20 sets of guests, mostly couples, and mostly for just a single night. Although all this week we had a single female professor from France who was visiting the University for a project she is collaborating on. Others have been couples in town for a concert or a horse racing event, or for wine tasting at the many local wineries.

I would say an AirBnB host knows more about the guests that are staying there than an average hotel or rental condo does, even though the hotel or condo front desk requires the guest to show an ID at check-in. Each guest has a history and reviews from previous hosts, and if they trash one place the bad reviews they receive will make it unlikely other hosts would accept them.

In any case I don't see how it is anyone else's concern what I do in my own house, unless it actually affects them in some way. That attitude is big a part of why the short time I lived in a place with a HOA, was also the last time I'll live in a place with a HOA. My guests are not parking on the street. For one there is no on street parking, for another, that would entail a 3/4 mile walk from their car to the house.

Another issue that chisue brings up often is real estate taxes, but I don't follow the reasoning. I pay RE taxes on my house. They are the same for us as they were for the family of 7 that moved out. I also pay RE taxes on the duplex that I rent out to long term tenants, the taxes on that duplex are no different than they would be if I lived there myself. So why should the RE taxes be much higher at my house simply because occasionally someone I don't know pays to stay there.

I realize it will probably change, since whenever someone figures out how to make money, the government is soon there with their hand out for their slice of the pie. The only reason it isn't considered a illegal shakedown is because they are the ones that make the laws, by which "illegal" is determined.

There are 300+ rentals for my town listed on VRBO/Airbnb and I know from city council minutes that there are only 36 extant permits for short-term rentals. The city council enacted a moratorium on issuing new permits and laid out some requirements regarding parking and noise for STRs, but were almost immediately sued by someone who wanted their own STR permit. That was in November, 2016. I guess the other STRs are guilty of permit violations right now, but there seems to be no enforcement process.

I don't think it's fair to assume people who are hosting on Airbnb and similar are doing so illegally. Most cities have addressed these short term rentals and have set up licensing and tax requirements. Airbnb for its part has been very thorough in telling hosts what they need to do to stay compliant as well as compiling a list of specific resources to do so. I'm sure some people are doing it illegally and not registering but there are systems in place to help report them.

Chicago has passed bills to address these rentals. You can find a summary here of one passed on June 22, 2016 if you're interested: https://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/bacp/ordinances/housesharesummaryfinal.pdf

Chicago requires licensing, registration, insurance requirements and penalties to protect neighbors and make sure the hosts are operating legally.

AirBnB also warns hosts about what they need to do to be legal and compliant:

https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/861/chicago--il

Here's Maui's also if you're interested: https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/895/maui--hi

We love using Airbnb when we travel, so it would be hypocritical to disapprove of them in our area.

"In any case I don't see how it is anyone else's concern what I do in my own house"

On a lighter note, Bob, there are zoning laws, commercial codes, business regulations and building codes. And even some health codes (there are limits to using a home kitchen to prepare food sold commercially). All of these apply in your house.

On more extreme scale, civil law and criminal law apply as equally in your living room as out in the middle of the street. Again, no choice in the matter.

So in very many cases, the law says it's the public (and its enforcement agencies) who have the right to regulate and, if needed, act on what you do in your house.

I guess it only matters when it's the people that the neighbor is renting their basement out to who neglect to inform them or post flyers in the neighborhood that they are business people and that business is running a meth lab..until the place explodes or the police raid. Then it might matter what someone does in their own house and who they invite to stay.

Or there's a nice couple who comes to stay for the weekend that murders and robs their host before disappearing off to their next stop halfway across the world in a country with no extradition agreement with the US.

I *may* watch too much true crime tv. And I *might* see things with work that those who aren't in the legal profession don't really see (until it happens near them). ;)

'Course if they're swingers then that is completely none of my concern unless they're doing stuff that is inappropriate in front of children (theirs or someone else's) or in public view. ;)

When we travel we often stay in STRs or AirBnB. We try to be the best guests we can be, and not do anything to annoy the neighbours. We have good reviews from all our AirBnB hosts. I suspect the majority of guests are ordinary people like us, not ruffling any feathers.

On the flipside, we own a unit in a block of four where DH lives during the week for work. We're at one end. The owner at the other end of the block is an AirBnB host and we have had no issues at all. I've checked the profile of the owner and all the guests (of which there are many) only have nice things to say. The owner lives in the unit and moves out to stay with friends when the unit is rented out. Our local council permits owners to rent out on AirBnB as long as the other owners give their consent. We haven't officially and would make it clear that we don't give our consent if there were any issues, but so far the only thing that's happened is that the owner has reticulated and upgraded all the gardens in the property's entry area, which for us as non-gardeners is a bonus :-)

We AirBnB all the time, and have used VRBO as well.

I know you said when you purchased your condo that things weren't like this. Yet you've been renting your condo for a week at a time (STR!!!!) since you bought it. You sound bitter that you're paying taxes as a business owner.

Times change. The sharing economy is here to stay. We also Uber and Lyft---and we aren't youngsters.

We have had ZERO problems with any of these sharing economy services.

The problems you're having (other than resentment about taxes) could be found with any type of renter.

I think that Chisue's problem wasn't with the STR condo in Maui because she knew that was allowed going in - she is seeing STRs popping up in the small community a little north of Chicago where she spends the bulk of the year and that area isn't zoned nor did she buy there with clear knowledge of a STR wave occurring in the future because there was no reason to believe such a thing would happen.

The issue of short term rentals is coming to a head in a neighboring beach town. Imagine that you can't enjoy your weekends in the quiet residential neighborhood that you work long hours to afford because your neighbor is renting out his home to Bridezilla's bridesmaids for her bachelorette party! Or the guys who want to re-live their frat house days and host a party!

Bob -- Why shouldn't you be taxed as a business when you are running one? Why shouldn't you be required to register as a business or be fined for running one where none is permitted under zoning regulations? (If you were actually running a B&B you would require a license, which would be dependent on zoning and inspections -- and you would be taxed a business.)

"What you do" in your own house isn't the issue. You are running a rental business in it. That is probably as much a non-conforming use as making fireworks in your basement. Neither is a 'plus' for your neighbors -- or the police or fire departments. The flat you rent Long Term can be taxed as the Single Family Residence it is. This is not the same thing as transient rentals.

You are kidding yourself that your guests are vetted. Airbnb and VRBO pressure both owners and guests to *love* the process. It's in their business interest. Their lawyers have attempted to forestall legal problems by adding boiler plate about being 'considerate' and to 'know and follow local laws', but you will note they absolve themselves of all responsibility. Every contract is between owner and guest.

Why should neighbors who do not conduct businesses bringing strangers into your neighborhood for an hour or two subsidize your business that brings them in at all hours to pay to rent your apartment for days? You and your neighbors pay taxes on Single Family homes, not businesses.

When you chose your home, did you want a neighborhood where transients come and go? Buyers have long been advised to avoid areas where many homes are not occupied by their owners, but the 'door' that revolves once a year on a long term lease is *nothing* compared to the revolving door on a short term rental. Transient areas are valued differently than SFH areas.

I'm not asking about others' experiences RENTING STR's. We've had many happy guests at our *legal* short term vacation rental on Maui.

My post is about living amidst STR's and how communities unaccustomed to them are regulating them. There is a reason we have zoning laws. There is a reason businesses are regulated and taxed differently than single family homes. Despite the sappy promotionals, this is not about 'welcoming other cultures' or 'sharing' anything. This is about money, i.e. business -- and property values.

Uhoh, Chisue, you've given me another detail that is going to need to be looked at regarding our relocation matter as if there weren't so many already! Scanning STR rental sites for *every single property we consider in the different state*. *headdesk*

And all with the mister-very-easily-excited-Labrador-retriever-ing in the peripheral. (sigh).

Our neighbors at our lake home rented their cabin out twice last year through airbnb, and we were not happy. There were parties and late nights and lack of privacy. I checked both sites and the home is not listed this year. We did not complain, but others must have. The cabin was sold by great neighbors to these people, and it's not great for us. There is a public access walking path between the properties which was overgrown with a lot of shrubs and little trees, and they cut them all down so now we can see them and they can see us. It's not even their property, it belonged to the city. I have no idea why they would want less privacy, now we are going to have to put up some kind of privacy awning on our deck. Sigh. At least no more rentals, for now.

Chi -- Thanks for the links. The Chicago 'proposal' is already outdated. Since Expedia bought Home Away/VRBO, it is the same operation as Airbnb. It charges he guest a fee to book (6% - 12%). There is no more ability for guest to find owner and set up a contract without paying a booking fee.

I don't think the Chicago proposal has been implemented. There's far too little money generated in it to actually enforce rules. (Same problem on Maui.) Things like this did prompt the brokers (Airbnb, Expedia, etc.) to add 'cautions' to owners, but they do not vet properties for licenses. Airbnb lists places where IT collects taxes FOR states -- and for Cook County in Illinois. (Nothing about license checking.)

There are MANY illegal vacation rentals in Hawaii. Kailua has been fighting them for years, yet they continue to make up the majority of STR's in that area. There is great reluctance to enforce anything that would reduce the number of tourists -- Hawaii's main industry. There is also a cultural tradition of allowing an ohana (Granny Flat) on residential property. There has been reluctance to see that marketing these as STR's is different. It's a combination of tourism/inertia/don't offend voters . *I* think Hawaii is nuts to forego the taxes. The infrastructure is tremendously overburdened, and STR's take away from what could be leased housing.

My small home city is not a Tourist Destination. We didn't buy a nice SFH only to have the neighborhood become a hive of transient housing. We're happy to pay high RE taxes to support a high-market-value *residential* community -- not to supply Airbnb with unregulated rentals where guests comment that they love the quiet atmosphere, parks and beaches! (Not to mention *on the cheap*.)

After a year and a half of living in our house, I just found out our immediate next door neighbor rents out the basement of their lovely home through AirBnB several times a year. They have an extra garage stall so we don't see strange cars or a lot of coming and going, and I never see any of their guests outside. For the most part, I think these are folks in town for a family event or something and aren't in the rental space much - the whole thing is so low key it doesn't bother me at all.

If everyone were doing it, especially in not such a private manner, however, I'm not so sure I would be in favor. And I can certainly see why businesses like AirBnB irk you, given the triple RE taxes you pay on top of the licensing and whatnot. It really doesn't seem fair.

Our HOA doesn't have any rules to address this, nor does our town.