Engineers are notorious for giving accurate useless advice. All math, no real world. Talk to an experienced general contractor first. The guy you want has the connections for an engineer and the ability to integrate the engineering into the project successfully. On jobs like these, architects and engineers are subs.

Oh yea,you can tell fum looking dim stuz dat aint noz laod bearing walls.

Thanks Dan and Joseph.

We've had two GC's out. The first said he wasn't sure, couldn't really tell, but he had an engineer who could look over our old plans and draw us up new ones for $3000. He estimated around $20,000 to move the walls. The second said no problem, not load bearing and he can do it for $2700. Quite a disparity. We have another scheduled for tomorrow.

Mamacita Nikita: Obviously your first guy didn't want the job. If the second guy can pull a permit and pass inspection, I'd take him.

Walls in a one story house don't support gravity loads or brace other walls but they often act as lateral bracing for the trusses and indirectly, the exterior walls.

In this kind of structure when wind or earthquake forces push against a roof or exterior wall, the force is transferred through the ceiling plane (the bottom truss chords) until it reaches a braced wall parallel to the force where the force is transferred to the floor slab. There are probably other similar bracing walls.

Not only do you need an engineer to determine the nature of the existing structure but to provide a drawing for the contractor and the building department. I don't understand what you mean by "finding a structural engineer who will just give us an opinion and not remodeling bids". You need the engineer to provide a drawing before a contractor can bid the work or file for a permit.

" You need the engineer to provide a drawing before a contractor can bid the work or file for a permit."

This varies by jurisdiction. Better to get an experienced contractor who has a relationship with the building department. If the contractor determines an engineer is necessary, you're not wasting your money. Plus, the contractor you want is going to have a working relationship with an engineer, so the stuff the engineer draws will be practical.

I strongly disagree. I studied structural design for longer than most engineers and have been practicing architecture for 50 years but I would never modify a lateral bracing system for roof trusses without the help of a structural engineer even if I had the original structural drawings and calculations.

In too many cases I have learned from an engineer that the original design was inadequate to the point of being dangerous. I just finished a project where the owner did not want to pay for an engineer but when I told him I would have to resign he agreed to hire one and was shocked when he learned that the structure of the building had never met the building code or acceptable engineering practice. I had to explain to him that a structure was not "grandfathered" since it did not meet the building code when it was built. His contractor was very capable and thought he could modify the structure himself. the structural reinforcement he had already done had to be replaced. He thanked me later for intervening.

Advising people to rely on contractors with little or no structural training could cause them serious harm.

Advising people to rely on engineers and architects with no cost/benefit analytical skills can cause them serious financial harm.

I've been on jobs when right after the homeowners explained what they wanted I said, "We need an engineer."

I'm skeptical of an engineer who says the original structure didn't meet the building code in force when it was built. That smells bad to me. I'm thinking that's an easy justification for a new plan and the fee going with it. I'd check that statement by having the building department review your current structure for adequacy. They're more of a disinterested third party. If they find it inadequate then proceed. Otherwise keep looking for someone who knows stuff and is honest. . . . It would be helpful to add some pictures of the trusses in this area too.

As a licensed builder and renovator, I rarely even came across structural engineers in building departments. Though maybe your municipality is different. In any case, they will not be legally liable for whatever they tell you.

An independent licensed Professional engineer is responsible to you and carries insurance to cover mistakes.

I would bet lots of homes don't meet the Codes they're built under.

In one home I built that passed two sets of framing inspectors--one for the mandatory government warranty and one for the city--at the last moment my framing contractor noticed a virtually complete lack of internal supports to the basement girders for half the 2,000 sf second floor. He rushed around for two hours building posts and installing them at key points. After that, the plans for all houses I built were reviewed by an experienced structural engineer.

An interior wall may support loads from above or it may be an interior shear wall or it may simply be a room divider; it's not always obvious without considering the context in some detail. To this end, a structural engineer can provide useful insights.

As with any profession, there will be structural engineers of varying degrees of competence (as a licensed professional engineer, it's my opinion that the professional engineer's license exam is not a particularly good differentiating standard); with varying degrees of practical experience, and with varying degrees of ability to prescribe a cost-effective solution. That doesn't make them bad or negate the need to consult them. It's just a reflection of the real world. Experienced contractors are great resources, too, but they don't substitute for a licensed structural engineer--ever.

Id say it is a bearing wall, Looks like the ceiling joist from the Dining room to the kitchen lap on that wall, Also you can see the vents orientation is in between joist, and you can see a joist end at the rake ceiling. The span from the rake ceiling thru that wall to the outside kitchen wall is fairly long, I wouldn't expect to see ceiling joist that long without mid span support, which is the wall in Question. A small hole in the ceiling next to the wall would answer this question, If it is you still have options, they all involve a Structual Engineer and money though.

Thank you for the responses; theyve been helpful.

The dining room ceiling is being held up by trusses that run parallel to the walls. The rake ceiling trusses run the same direction (this is visible from the attic). That's not a joist end at the rake ceiling, it's the end of a very large header running parallel to the wall(s) in question.