Be still my heart, those first two pictures are incredible! It even seems to have more petals than the bloom from the year before. I don't think anything can get more purple than your beautiful little rose. There's nothing in my garden that comes even remotely close, although my Plum Perfect is fairly new and hasn't even had a single bud. I'm quite sure it will never rival your rose, though.

Wow. I don't know, my purples aren't in bloom yet.

Wow! Gorgeous! Is there a little more shade hitting it during the day this year from trees growing bigger after all our crazy rain? Maybe dappled or shady sunshine is making it darker this year? The only things I have that come close to that deep purple are pacific coast irises! How funny that it's called Old Red Runaround. Should have been Old Purple Prevarication. ;-)

I found a photo of one my Falstaffs in dappled sun/shade from November. It had quite a bit of purple.... Not even close to your purple Old Red Runaround though!

I think my most purple are Ellen Tofflemire

And Veilchenblau

It does get shade from a pepper tree in the afternoon, Cori Ann. Cooler temperatures also make it more purple. 'Falstaff' and 'Veilchenblau' are quite purple in those photos! I've always wanted to grow 'Veilchenblau', but have a chronic and annoying shortage of space....

'Cardinal de Richelieu' is my most purple rose.

:-)

~Christopher

Blue for You.

I love the purples, and catspat your rose is not only a luscious color, but I love all its little scallops and ruffles that are remind me a bit of a ruffly petticoat. Kim, Blue for you is definitely a smoky blue--what a unique and stunning color.

My most purple roses are modern ones, Twilight Zone and Ebb Tide. I've noticed how much darker TZ gets as our season winds down in November. Diane

Twilight Zone in May

Gorgeous, Diane! Tom's poiples turned too red where and when I had them, but I love Midnight Blue, plant and all.

love'em all!

I didn't get as many pictures as I thought, or maybe I haven't took them oss my camera yet. I'll post more later..

This is my kind of thread, Catspat! Red Runaround is gorgeous!! Is it commercially available? I'll see if I have any purple photos I can access. I'm waiting for my daughter's last tuition payment before I purchase a new computer, so my photos are limited at the moment. I'm thrilled that so many of you grow purple roses and that you're sharing your images. Please don't stop! Altorama, thank you for Ellen Tofflemire. I have a baby in my pot nursery and can hardly wait to see her bloom! Carol

Ellen Tofflemire was one I didn't order, I was trying to get what I thought would bloom here. I really enjoyed the photo as well! I don't think Red Runaround is available anywhere, it's one I've been looking at, you can get it in California, during the Sacromento sales I believe? I can't travel that far for it, so I have to content myself with pictures. :)

Diane I really hope the weather starts agreeing with your garden soon because the photos of your roses (and your entire garden) are always outstanding!

As far as I know, "Old Red Runaround" is not commercially available, nor does anyone know what it "really" is (hybrid China?), and, judging from the photos on HMF, there are different versions (interesting to note that the version Vintage had looks very different from mine). "My" version is present in at least several old cemeteries in Sonoma County (CA), which is where my plant came from.

I somehow forgot about Nightmoss

Thank you for the ORR info, Catspat! And thank you for the photos of your found version. Absolutely gorgeous!

Alana, Ellen Tofflemire might bloom for you. I believe it is a cross between Tuscany Superb and Othello. You have a gift for growing purple Gallica hybrids. :-)

Altorama, I love Nightmoss' color! Isn't the fragrance heavenly? And it's a MOSS! (My latest passion.) I have a Nightmoss in a big pot in my driveway nursery. It's awaiting the new bed I have yet to dig.

Carol

I think I love all of his roses!

catspat, I do wonder if "Old Red Runaround" is a single variety that is fairly variable according to garden conditions, or if would be more accurate to say that it's a family of similar varieties that are each fairly stable?

If you had a plant propagated from your rose, and traded it for a rose propagated from a redder "ORR", would you and your trading partner end up with two roses looking like what you already had, or would you each end up with one red and one purple rose?

Hybrid China certainly seems plausible; there used to be so many HC's in commerce once upon a time.

Virginia

It CAN be much redder . . . And maybe it's one of those roses that varies slightly from clone to clone. EVERYONE has speculated about it, of course.

Here it is in the Historic Sacramento City Cemetery:

And here it is in an old cemetery up off Hwy. 49:

I think it is variable according to weather, Virginia, Mine can be more on the red or bluish-dark-pink side at the end of its blooming season, but certain years, like this one, certainly do bring out the purple. It is, by the way, excellent as a dried flower, since the little pompons dry readily and make good additions to potpourri. It is scented.

The records (and photos) on HMF are in conflict. One reference (Vintage) says, "Old Red Runaround" HCh. No rebloom. Outstanding fragrance. Habit [diagram] 2. Found 20th c. [Provenance Robinson found]. Found in more old gardens, cemeteries and roadsides than perhaps any other rose in America, this small red pompon flowered rose is a true survivor." The two other references say, "Rosa gallica made its way to North America with the European colonists where it generated some new forms, like Red Run Around... in the California countryside... semi-double and somewhat domesticated." and "A loose shrub, that forms large thickets by suckering, hence its common name. A semi-double red Rosa gallica of unknown origin, often naturalized near old cottages in California."

Now, this rose is certainly a "loose shrub" and suckers like nobody's business, but it is, no-way-no-how, "semi-double" (as, by the way, the two most recent photos on HMF show it, but not the rest, nor do Jeri's photos look "semi-double", I would say). The most recent photo on HMF, described as being the Vintage clone, doesn't look very double, either, and the bloom (judging by the hand holding it), larger than what I have and not a "pompon". So, it is a puzzle.

Oh my!!!! Old Red Runaround.... a beauty!!! Wow wow wow.

My purplest is Capitaine John Ingram, which looks especially purple next to his pink friends in the border....

I agree, catspat, that "ORR" is certainly not semi-double. Even the two most recent photos at HMF don't look semi-double to me, although they do look a bit less full that the other blooms pictured. But that could be atypical blooms (most recent pic), or misleading camera angles (next most recent)? Dunno.

So, the description invoking semi-double blooms is puzzling. As for origin, it certainly could be an American original, and if it isn't found outside of the U.S., that could be an explanation why. Some American roses (Noisettes for example) did become popular in Europe, but generally Americans imported more varieties than they exported. I'm guessing this trend continued until the HT heyday of the 20th C.

Another explanation, though, could be that the rose was of European origin, but Americans liked it and kept it growing in their gardens and graveyards long after Europeans had moved on to newer, more fashionable varieties. Plenty of immigrants treasured momentoes of the "Old Country", and plants often served that purpose.

Fairly early on in rose cultivar history, there were at least two pompon roses that were similar in appearance; 'Pompon de Bourgogne' and 'Pompon à fleurs pourpres'. I wonder if "ORR" is related to either or both of these...

Virginia

Kim, I have got to get Blue for You someday!!!!

I can hardly wait until my Capt. J Ingram grows up and blooms! A kind rose friend took pity on me and sent me a rooted cutting of this lovely moss. (I had been eternally waitlisted.)

Still trying to access a photo of something purple....

Carol

So, I finally got around to downloading GIMP yesterday, and have been uploading some photos I've taken over the last year or two. Yes, I'm a procrastinator, which makes things even more delightful when I get anything accomplished.

Long story short, here's a photo of 'Lauren' taken last year, and looking rather lovely, no? She's a great rose with charmingly glandular buds.

Found another 'Lauren' portrait, looking more purple, less plummy:

PS I'm no bug expert, but suspect that that's Toxomerus marginatus (a hover fly) hanging out on 'Lauren' in the second photo...

RDV

Mignonette (may have already posted this?)

Roseseek - I wish my Blue For You was the same color you have! Mine produces a variety of colors but none of them is violet blue.

Dark pink

Pinky purple

Recently it's been purple but not deep violet blue.

Reine des Violettes

Twilight Zone

Great photos everyone!

Ann

Hi Ann! That isn't surprising. Most darker purple roses vary quite a bit in color. Presuming they are budded, it's mostly temperature, light intensity and humidity that cause the issues. Own root, who knows? Blue for You is own root and it is a bit more "blue" here on the Central Coast than it was some times in the inland coastal mountains of So Cal. It's cooler and much damper here with higher UV. Your Reine des Violettes is about as red as mine was in the mid desert...WHEN it was mulched with Ironite and Camellia/Azalea mix and fed Miracid. Otherwise is had light yellow leaves with white flowers.

Here's my 'Reine des Violettes' a couple of days ago, about as purple as she gets here (other times of the year, can be screaming pink). She's looking pretty chipper this year, after all that rain, especially for a rose that's been pulled out several times (I've conceded) and gets no direct irrigation water, only what might flow her way from roses further up the hill.

Thanks roseseek! My Blue For You is from Chamblees (Texas) so I believe it's an own-root. I'll see how it does this season and may experiment for some soil supplements to see if I can reproduce your color!

How tall and wide is yours? I've planted BFY between Koko Loco and Candice to create kind of a novelty, odd ball section. I might be able to fit one more oddball in there if BFY will be staying small.

Ann

Love this thread, great pictures everyone!

I have a lot of purples but none want to stay purple in my climate. I only wish that my Ebb Tides looked like Nanadolls!

Midnight Blue is my most consistently purple here. RdV has been violet all spring but so was Madame IP until she turned fuchsia, ugghh.

I am collecting pollen and this is Blue for You right now. The first image is with natural light, the rest are flash.

Wow, love these Roseseek!

That seems about as close to blue as a rose could get without looking strange.

As with all of them, it can be quite variable, but it often does THAT. And, with a silvery-white reverse and hand painting. It's one of the parents of Eyes for You, where Eyes got its coloring, painting, health and scent. I LUST this rose! It is seductive!

It looks gorgeous ! In spite of having wanted it for while, I'm sort of scared to try it, in case I kill yet another bluey.. I bought a batch about 2/3 years ago; Route 66, Ebb Tide and Rhapsody in Blue. They were all pretty great the first year, in that just pre main spring flush time; nice and healthy, wonderful intense shades of purpley blue - then it started to warm up, and by late spring if they bloomed at all, they were tiny, and pinkish and blew within a day. Route 66 was the first to go, but the other two I still have. Rhapsody just doesnt want to grow ( didnt get a single bloom last season) and Ebb tide is good during the early part of the year, but seems to exhaust itself trying to produce crappy sad little flowers. Now in autumn, they are sad sticklike things- Ebb Tide has respond to the rain and cool by producing a bud and some new growth, but no new replacement canes..

RDV does a lot better! She was quite purpley and floriferous this year, and one of the healthier roses in the backyard, surprisingly free of BS and mildew.

Of course climate makes all the difference, but I will share my observations on those in my old "extreme heat, extreme fire danger" climate. The only one I have grown in my new coastal-beach climate is Blue for You. Route 66 and Ebb Tide are both very weak with "compromised" foliage in that climate. Neither can withstand hours of direct, unrelenting sun and heat. Both demand protection from the hottest of both to be any good. I avoided Rhapsody in Blue because it was known in that area for having black spot issues. Again, something that is going to be quite variable due to the strains of the disease group existing in the area, but if I am going to breed with it, I want to use those proven to be as resistant where I am as possible. Jiminshermanoaks was a great friend, who lived eight miles east of me, about as far from the ocean as I was. He lived in the Sepulveda Pass, between West LA and the San Fernando Valley, so he had a great deal more of the marine influence, heavy fogs and ten to fifteen degrees cooler than where I lived in Encino. His experience with Rhapsody was that it flowered marvelously in the "coolth", as he described it, but it stopped flowering when it got hot there. He loved the color and scent, but not the climbing habit nor its refusal to flower when hot.

Another friend, who lives in the Santa Clarita Valley and grows bazillians of roses in large pots on her massive patio, grows all three (and MANY more!). I worked her roses for most of a year and observed that even with filtered light through surrounding trees and her large patio cover, Route 66 and Ebb Tide were difficult and never developed in to the full bushes desired. She spends a great deal on very good soil; feeds regularly; sprays for diseases and insects; and waters copiously and she grows some spectacular plants and blooms. She's delighted with any and every flower that develops, but in those conditions, Ebb Tide and Route 66 are "also ran" types. Twilight Zone is significantly better for her that those two for health, quality of foliage, density of plant and plant architecture. Rhapsody in Blue is acceptably healthy for her and it definitely climbs. Its flower production also slows to a stop in the highest heat, and hers is heavily mitigated by the surrounding border of large trees which line her lot and defends it against the bordering streets. Her roses receive little reflected/radiated heat from the hard scape because her plants are large and the foliage mass is sufficiently dense to shade the concrete most of the time.

My Blue for You is own root and trapped in a seven gallon can of MG moisture control potting soil. The soil prep, tree (and extreme root) removal and re grading have yet to be accomplished to permit planting anything in the ground. Yes, the flowers crisp in the worst of the too brilliant sun and UV and the higher heat spikes, though mine are significantly lower than yours as far as "heat", so far. But, you expect that. Flower petals are the most sensitive, tender and fleeting of all the tissues the plant produces. They are its "ovulation", meant to attract pollinators to perpetuate the species. Of course, they are the precise reason we grow all of them, but they aren't supposed to last long, only until something pollinates the bloom, or it pollinates itself. Even in my cooler, damper conditions, all of the roses demand some protection from the highest, brightest, hottest of the sun for their flowers to last any length of time. For many, I can't provide that as the area is too large and there are too many to protect. And, from what I have been observing for the past several years, it is increasing, getting worse.

Kim, you are so right, it is getting demonstrably worse from one year to the next. I've noticed that it may be quite tolerable in the shade but stand in the sun and after a minute or two it's unbearable. That variation is much greater than I've encountered in the past. I'm left with only 48 roses now, with as many planted in afternoon shade as possible, but that precious commodity is difficult to come by here. It will be interesting to see whether I can grow roses or companion plants like irises or pelargoniums at all in five or ten years. Scientists are constantly accelerating the rate of the timeline toward disastrous conditions. It's extremely sobering, especially since the present administration seems bent on making the situation worse than better. I imagine roses with thick petals and foliage will be the ones to hold out the longest.

I agree that Ebb Tide suffers in the heat and dry air, but my plants have gotten much better at handling these conditions over the years. They have grown here since 2006, the year they came into commerce. Ebb Tide still fades when the heat is on, but at a level I can tolerate. At least its blooms don't turn a noxious coral orange like my Princess Alexandra of Kent-ha. Diane

Ebb Tide