rob,

Children may be allowed to choose what they eat, but adults should ensure that every option available to them is a healthy one.

I believe we agree that the food decisions should be guided by the parent, not the child. Unfortunately, there are parents who don't know much about nutrition set poor examples.

I wanna be just like him, yeah, you know I wanna be like him.

This "teaching how to eat healthfully", is much to be like trying to turn a homosexual, into a heterosexual.

Years ago I took a wine course (semester long at a community college in the culinary program). Unfortunately, very little stuck with me regarding all the grape varieties, regions, etc. But I do remember something the instructor said about palettes and children. He said that children have a much keener sense of taste until they hit puberty and then it mellows out. Hence, the reason why so many foods that we had as children tasted 'yucky' or bitter but as an adult they are pretty good now! He also said for this reason, if you really want to develop a good sense for tasting wine and understanding the nuances, the time to begin in life is when you are younger (um, his idea not mine!).

I do remember certain things tasting 'stronger' as a child so this makes some sense to me. I always loved broccoli even as a kid, but it took lots of Velveeta cheese sauce!

"This "teaching how to eat healthfully", is much to be like trying to turn a homosexual, into a heterosexual."

Really?

Really. You can't choose your height or hair color. You can't choose your sexuality, and you cannot choose what foods appeal to you. No matter how much someone shoves it into your zone.

I know food tastes change or at least they did for me. As a kid I hated any strong flavored foods like blue cheese, spicy mustard, horseradish, garlic, ginger, mushrooms, raw onions, but love all that now. If I said I am never going to eat that because as a kid I didn't like it, I would have missed out on a lot of good food. I have read that you have to try new foods 10-15 times over a long period of time before you really know if you like it or not.

As we age, our taste buds decrease. Maybe this is why we start to like stronger flavored foods, and why young children prefer blander options?

Although I do believe in the genetic component to food preferences, I also agree with Elmer about exposure to a variety of foods and parents as role models.

Just to be clear, I believe in setting the example and exposing. I don't think there's a chance in h-e-double hockey sticks you can change a picky eater into anything other than a picky eater. That's my one and only point. It's tiring to see the judgements of how people only buy fast food cause it. Uh no. I've seen kids in homes where nothing but the best was served stay picky. There are examples on this thread! So lay off the that's what the kid sees is why they're picky, was all I meant. It's just not founded in anything other than opinion.

I breastfed my daughter and didn't offer her any food until she was about 8 mo old. I tried baby food.....no way she would eat it. I tasted it....I didn't blame her. Horrible. From then on out, I fed her table food that was finely minced up. Broccoli was one of her favorite foods, by the way. ;) I called it "green things". she was never a picky eater, and much more adventuresome about food than I am. when we eat out, she will almost always try something from the menu that she hasn't had before. I will always go with something that I have tried before and like. I was always a picky eater as a child. My parents didn't force me to eat anything I didn't like....but there wasn't always an alternative...unless it was a tv dinner or can of soup. Almost all of the foods that I didn't eat then, I like now. I am still somewhat picky about food....especially how it is prepared.

Talk about picky eaters....I had a niece who when she was little practically existed on the crispy coating of fried chicken, and very little else. she grew up into a big old thing, so I guess she finally learned to eat something.

IMO. Some Kids that won't eat at the dinner table..but will chow down on a fas t food burger and fries...some of these kids just don't have to eat what's put on the table because they like fast food and in the end some of these kids know...parents will give me what I want all I have to do is not like dinner.

Who are these "kids"? Where do you observe them? Are they eating in front of you? Are you in their lives? How can you possibly know their entire story? I don't believe one word of those judgements.

rob, my "really" comment was to say I think your comparison of a person's sexual orientation (which is sometimes innate to personality and sometimes a deliberate choice) and their eating habits is REALLY off-the-wall. I couldn't disagree more.

For me, yes, observations. My friends, extended family and my kids (>2), their classmates, teammates, friends, and families. Parties, picnics, exchanging dinners in homes, etc. Many dozens and dozens of people. Eating habits are just that, habits. Parents who make poor food choices and who are picky and inflexible eaters very frequently have kids who are exactly the same. It's no surprise. Another trend for picky eaters I noticed long ago - it's often kids who are in single child families, having no siblings. When mealtime involves a roomful of people, there's no time or patience to do anything more than have boardinghouse rules. Here's the meal, there's enough for everyone but no individual orders will be taken. Take it or leave it. That develops broad tastes faster than anything.

You have no clue what "develops taste". Your work was financial if I recall correctly.

Further, I didn't say have you seen anyone eat junk food. I asked if you followed these fantasy junk food children throughout their days and lives.

I truly do not care if you agree or not, since your opinion is uninformed, based on bias. That's not something with which I align.

No need to repeat but I was talking about my own experiences. No one reading or contributing to this thread has professional credentials in this area - not you and not me or anyone else. Does that make my observations invalid? Are you suggesting creds should be required of anyone sharing thoughts and impressions on any topic?

Do I know as adults some of these individuals who were poor eaters when I knew them as children? Yes, some. The ones I still know haven't changed.

As for bias, I have none but your vehemence makes me wonder if you have any? You don't like what I'm saying - I'm politely disagreeing with you but you're attacking me. Might it be that your kid is a picky eater and you're being defensive?

I'm with Rob. We ate non-Mom-made food only a few times a year when we went to friends' houses for dinner. Verrrrry rarely a dinner out, and no fast food. I was the pickiest eater of my family and I can assure you, those thrice-boiled peas didn't get any better as I got older. Suggesting we're all the same when it comes to eating is ridiculous. I still cannot eat certain foods as they make me gag. One of my daughters has an actual fruit phobia (don't ask); as a baby, spooning fruit into her mouth you'd get the same thing coming right back out again. I think it's a shame you can't see people other than through your own lens, Elmer.

I went to weekly child parenting classes of 24-30 mothers (very rarely men) and their child/children, with each of my children from birth through kindergarten age. [Meals were a part of the classes.] For more than 15 years I volunteered regularly in elementary schools. Neighborhood children and classmates were over to our house frequently.

Over the years, I've had conversations with a great number of parents, and learned from various instructors, about the eating habits of children. In the classes, every semester there would be at least one week it was the specific topics of the instruction; other discussions were more informal, or as requested by parents (Requests were frequent.)

There is no one way, works for most, technique for getting the result of a child that will eat a wide range of healthy food. Sometimes one of a variety of techniques work; sometimes none of them work. Not only did stories vary from family to family, but from child to child within the same family.

Elmer, you may have observed eating habits, often in artificial settings of being company, outings, etc., but how often have you discussed eating habits with parents and professionals? I'm not referring to 10 minute long conversations with a pediatrician about your own child. Somehow, I find it difficult to believe you have had extended discussions on the subject with a very large number of parents.

Might it be that your kid is a picky eater and you're being defensive?

I only answer since you're trying to diagnose over the internet. Nope! I ate/eat whatever you put in front of me, cottage cheese, liver, broccoli that was steamed, not even butter, ANYTHING. My mom served up healthy, balanced meals every night. We were dirt poor, so there was no fast food. Ever. I watched my mom asking my sister on a regular basis, please just try one bite? Never. Still a picky eater. My brother, refused to eat anything unless ketchup was on it. She tried to get him to eat lasagne and even that required ketchup. All the same kids, all the same meals, and prepared by a good cook with the right knowledge. I too know how to eat/serve quite healthy and have brought my son up the same way. We tried it all. Nothing would make him try stuff. There are just picky eaters in the world. To deny that people just don't like stuff and will never like stuff is very short sighted.

Of course there are *just picky eaters in the world* sometimes for reasons we ...will never know.

Not everyone is going to like the same foods just like not everyone will like the same scents..

I didn't read all posts. I dont know if picky eaters are born or made that way or if you can even generalize about it.

DH's parents were depression kids, eating anything and everything which many times wasn't much. Add to it that mother was never going to be on food network b/c of her cooking skills. When rearing their kids, there was no discussion as to what would/or would not be eaten. He ate it period. However, as an adult he became a picky eater, not extreme but picky in my view. So is his sis. Was it rebellion? Dunno.

I remember eating battles w/stepchildren and I admit that 1/2 the time I succumbed to their pickiness. As adults they changed and became open minded eaters. I don't know if my behavior encouraged/discouraged picky eating.

i don't think I'm picky but I do have my idiosyncrasies. Ie. I can NEVER eat sausage casing--just can't swallow it. I peel sausages when I eat them and these days just skip it as don't even want to bother.

Never acted up. Ahem. Yeah. That's what I am railing against. They're not doing some wrong when they don't like certain foods. Even if it's many types of food.

"food shouldn't be a battle". Amen!

Forgot to say, also, people change over time. I used to like grape Kool-Aid, don't know if I could drink it today. Children's systems are different from our systems.

"Elmer, you may have observed eating habits, often in artificial settings
of being company, outings, etc., but how often have you discussed
eating habits with parents and professionals? I'm not referring
to 10 minute long conversations with a pediatrician about your own
child. Somehow, I find it difficult to believe you have had extended
discussions on the subject with a very large number of parents."

gyr falcon and others, we have different opinions and impressions. For all of us, the information sources are anecdotal, personal experiences and observations. We've all had observations, experiences, discussions with some people, some of whom probably have good thoughts and others of whom probably don't have a clue what they're talking about. There's no need to criticize my experiences nor will I do the same for yours, we're all drawing on informal sources of similar types. Yours aren't better or more valid than mine nor is it true vice versa. We don't all need to have the same view.

Hang on a sec. I apologize in advance for taking this thread in another direction (although it was introduced above), but did I really just read this:

>> "... person's sexual orientation (which is sometimes innate to personality and sometimes a deliberate choice)..."

Sexual orientation is sometimes a deliberate choice? Seriously, Elmer? Why in the world would someone CHOOSE to live a life of discrimination, ridicule, difficulty, etc.?

Wow.

Suzieque, I don't know where you are or what you do but I know plenty of people who have alternated genders in their dating habits from time to time. It's nothing new around here, There's no stigma, ridicule or discrimination against those in the LGBT community in the very diverse and accepting area I live in and hasn't been for decades and decades. The ones I know did so to experiment - some found it a positive experience, others didn't. For them, it was a choice driven by curiosity, not an inclination

I don't know anything about sexual orientation, but I think one of the reasons that my child wasn't a picky eater, and I was....as a child and somewhat today...is that I didn't allow junk food or sweets. Big difference on how I was raised, where I was allowed to eat sweets. I just didn't serve them. I was in my 30's when she was born and I tried really hard to do what I thought was best for her. I was also cooking for my very elderly mother at the same time, and so tried to always prepare well balanced meals. On the few times she was offered candy or something sweet, she didn't like it. Even today...at age 36, she still does not care very much for sweets.

Well, Elmer, good for you and your very diverse area. But I'm sure that you and most would agree that, in general, the folks in the LGBTQ community still face an upward battle. Even if they are "experimenting" as you say, I believe that there is no choice when all is said and done.

Anyway, I know that you love to be a contrarian about most everything so I'll just leave the topic now.

In SOME respects, i think a picky eater becomes a picky eater by what the parents do or not do. DD ate EVERYTHING!! DS, not so. but on the advice of my pediatrician he said " you are not a short order cook, he can and will eat what is in front of him at some point, he will not starve himself." so i followed his advice and after a year or so, yes a year, he eventually started to eat more at dinner. This non-eating was centered around dinner. we did not make a big issue out of it, he would pick at his dinner. when he said "I'm done", DH or me would say, "ok". and that was the end of the discussion. less said the better! no eye rolls or big sighs in disgust.....

i always cooked a good healthy dinner, not much junk food or sweets....

he always ate a good breakfast and lunch, so Dr. wasn't really worried about dinner. but his advice was great for us. this is the son who eats everything now. sushi being one of his favorites!!

point being: the less of an "issue" u make the less it becomes a "control" thing for the child.

not saying this is "one size fits all" but just one scenario....

"But I'm sure that you and most would agree that, in general, the folks in the LGBTQ community still face an upward battle. "

I'll happily leave this thread too, unless otherwise recalled, but not before saying you didn't read what I wrote. This is a ZERO issue in my area. There's no battle, uphill or downhill, to be had because sexual orientation is viewed as each individual's personal choice that isn't anyone else's concern. In my life and in the lives of others, at work, in social settings, in public, no one cares. Not an issue. I'm sure there are some Joe Sixpacks and also some religious extremists around that it may matter to but they're so outnumbered they tend to be quiet about it in mixed company or in public.

If it's an issue for you, or an issue in your area, that's a shame. People are people and they come in all possible types.

I work in a preschool and after observing hundreds of mealtimes, I do believe picky eaters are mostly made. I do believe there are exceptions and each person has some food they legitimately cannot eat (tomatoes and bell peppers for me!). And I'm sure there are some picky eaters despite a parent's best effort, but I believe the majority of the picky children that I've observed have been created.

Most children eat a somewhat balanced lunch with fruits and vegetables, but we have a couple who won't eat any fruits or vegetables at all, not even apple sauce. Those children bring in heavily processed foods or leftover fast food for lunch every day. Just fat, salt, carbs and preservatives. Nothing fresh or healthy.

Another child brings in salmon, broccoli, quinoa, hummus, all sorts of vegetables and fruits and eats every bite. I believe he's an adventurous eater because his parents eat that way at home.

I just have to comment on the LGBT issue. I live in the same general area as Elmer and my friends too are so diverse that we race,gender etc. don't even come into play. However I do have LGBT friends and extended family that do live in small town America across the USA. It's been my observation and it has become my belief that any gender issues, women's right issues and even racial issues come from the church, not the state.

Watchme, The only thing I was trying to say is that I do not believe that sexual orientation is a choice. That was my point.

The follow-on was that, in general… I repeat: in general in the world… Those of alternate preferences have a more difficult time. The world has come a long way in accepting people of different sexual persuasions but the world still has a long way to go in that respect. I, too, live in an area that is very diverse and very accepting. That is wonderful. But anyone thinking that an alternate sexual lifestyle is universally excepted is, in my opinion, in denial.

Again, my only two points are that I don't believe it's a choice and I don't believe that anyone would choose it if it were a choice.

I must apologize again for not commenting off-topic on this thread. I didn't start it but I continued it, and I'm ending it now for myself.

With respect to picky eaters… Beats me!

What in the world does ones sexual orientation/preference or whatever the correct term is...have to do with picky eaters..

Sometimes it's about quality. I wouldn't like hard fruit that didn't get fully ripe, over the hill broccoli, too ripe melon, etc. These days I don't like too salty foods (and I think it hides poor quality ingredients) but most people do I guess because everything seems to be loaded with salt. That's the calcium leaving your bones whenever you eat so much salt.

If kids eat take out and convenience foods from the market, they're going to expect all the taste that salt, sugar and flavor enhancement chemicals bring along. The bad thing is the lab created flavorings can now legally be included on the label using the word spices. The industry is always inventing something in the lab to make a cheap food taste like the best thing ever. Hard to get kids to like real food when they've been eating that cancer causing @$#! that tastes like food to them.

The same goes for pets. They like that flavored food but it causes so many problems later on.

Kitty Moonbeam , I've suspected for some time that the manufacturer puts crack cocaine in grocery store chocolate chip cookies LOL.

Interesting topic. I have two now adult children. Not only did I prepare very healthy food for them, I even grew it myself. As youngsters they ate everything... Squash, broccoli, the usual stuff too like carrots, beets,peas , corn any kind of bean that I could grow. My husband made them "kid salads" with faces using sprouts for hair and pumpkin seeds for teeth. For years they thought a garden salad or a Caesar salad was a dessert. Then youngest boy turned six and "poof".All that great eating disappeared. He became very picky and has remained so for thirty years. He is a meat baked potato pasta loving man and there is no changing him. The other child eats extremely well, following a sort of loose Paleo diet and gets many of her carbs. From fruit and veggies. I now have my son's son. Started out the same way but became picky at age 2. All downhill from there. Went to a nutritionist at age 6 and was told I was doing everything right. Had a psychological profile done and was diagnosed with ADD - isn't everybody - but the kid got sick. And sicker. And sicker. And ate hardly anything. Began to throw up several times a week, accompanied by headache. Medical intervention and a week in the hospital with a gastroenterologist and an eating disorder evaluation gave us a diagnosis:. CVS, Cyclical Vomiting Syndrome, related to migraines, and sometimes linked to ADD. Interesting that his Dad and aunt are also ADHD, Grandson doesn't have the H part, grandson has dysgraphia, a condition in which he cannot physically write or print. Taking migraine meds every day, nothing to stimulate appetite and no ADD meds. Eating lots but very limited. The most comforting words that I heard from the Cheif of the eating Disorders Clinic was "Your job is to provide, his job is to eat". So every day I pack him a healthy school lunch and every night I throw it out. It's just how he is. He is studying food prep at high school in grade ten. Go figure.

Its very important for children and parents to eat together so children can see and watch and find out about all kinds of different things. Now the way you might eat isn't for children. Like I used to be a nanny and found feeding chldren the hardest thing ever. What one minute they liked the next no, they didn't like. Vegetables were very hard to get them to eat I found out but I found alot like raw and dips, dip them into the dips, one mother used not dips but this salad dressing which is like a dip and was eating all colours peppers and broccoli and such and she was amazed as I had suggested dips to use. Now this same child wouldn't eat meat, no way, screamed and cried, baby food and also real food, it was awful. I got a ripping down from elderly lady when we were out in restaurant eating and how I didn't give him meat and on and on she went. I told her that he wouldn't eat meat of any kind and I didn't stop him from not eating, he just clammed his teeth together and wouldn't try meat at all. It wasn't until his parents went to friends who bbqued and gave him this chicken leg to chew on and he loved it after that but we had to tell him all meat was chicken or he wouldn't touch it at all. And don't over feed them either, give them a tiny plate with little bits of food. Tiny snacks during the day in otherwords mini meals as children need to re-energize and can't cope with a huge meal at all like adults do. Healthy good snacks too, not cookies and such. Also no take out places foods all the time, teach them and cook good meals at home for them to learn how to eat. They need to be taught like anything and grow up as an adult and eat those things that if you never introduced or they never had in their life no idea. Too many boys only eat peas and corn I keep hearing from wives with adult husbands. So teach your boys to eat veggies, make them interesting. Don't hide them all in foods to get them to eat veggies as that doesn't teach them what it is and eat them as they should. And not just good food but drinks, no pop except for special and only a little bit.

Anyone watch "Bizarre Foods" with Andrew Zimmern on The Travel Channel. Most of what he eats, especially bugs or certain parts (eyeballs) of an animal, I wouldn't touch no matter how much you paid me and I am not a picky eater. Even at 65 I am still trying new foods, especially new ethnic dishes. But I don't know how he does it. I cringe when I see him eating certain things.

I was a picky eater as a kid. We never went out to eat, nor did we eat convenience food. My mother had an interesting habit of trying to hide undesirable foods in other foods. You never did quite know what you were eating, so anything that was cooked to oblivion or might have who-knows-what hidden in it, made food far less appealing. It didn't help that after the fact Mom would make a big deal out of having gotten everyone to eat the mystery food she'd hidden in the mess. It also didn't help that she wasn't the spectacular cook she prided herself to be. I was a made picky eater as a child. As an adult I don't eat fish of any sort (just a personal aversion), but other than that, there isn't any common foods I won't eat- so I don't think I was naturally a picky eater so much as food was a problematic topic.

Because food was such a struggle for me as a child, I vowed to never do that to my own kid. For a long period of time when she was little she ate predominantly oatmeal and little else. It was never a struggle in our house, and she watched her parents enjoy all manner of food while she worked on her oatmeal. Now that she's school aged, there is very little she won't eat. I actually feel a little embarrassed when she asks DH to make her some dark, smelly fish for dinner and it makes me feel like gagging. I'm proud of her, but even I wouldn't take credit for whether she was made unpicky or is naturally that way- I think it may be a little bit of both, but first hand experience tells me that making food into a power struggle doesn't make for unpicky eaters.

when our daughter was about 3, we were at the mall and we decided to have an ice cream cone. Asked Erin if she wanted one and she said yes. so we got 3 ice cream cones. she put up a fuss because her cone had ice cream in it....so my husband knocked the ice cream out and gave her just the cone. she was happy. Next time we went to the mall, asked her again if she wanted an ice cream cone...and she said yes. so my husband order two ice cream cones and one just a cone. Handed her the empty cone. she immediately said, "I want ice cream in it!" People standing around us must have thought we were the meanest people ever....to have ice cream cones and just give the poor child only a cone. so he handed it back and asked for ice cream on it. You just never know with kids. One day they will want one thing....the next, something else.

"No one reading or contributing to this thread has professional credentials in this area - not you and not me or anyone else."" For all of us, the information sources are anecdotal, personal experiences and observations." "There's no need to criticize my experiences..." ". Yours aren't better or more valid than mine nor is it true vice versa."

Mr. Fudd, so in your mind, my multiple college credit courses in child development count for no more than your limited observations and personal experiences. And that I have more education about the subject matter, is "criticizing your experiences". How fabulously dismissive of you. lol

As a result of dating some ed. and psych students, and thanks to my own major that left lots of room for many electives, I too have "multiple college credit courses" in child development and education. My recollection is these included these full term courses: Early Childhood Education, Psychology of Learning, Education of Special Needs Children. There was one other, I don't remember the name.

We're sharing opinions and views, all have the same weight.

Where's Dr. Spock when he's needed.

"As a result of dating some ed. and psych students..."

You are an (unintentionally) funny man, Mr. Fudd!

I always tried to take a class with females I dated, it was an easy way to spend more time with them. Should the relationship end, all of these classes were large enough to provide room to avoid who you might want to avoid. I didn't take common classes with the odd science/engineering brainiac or two I encountered, for obvious reasons. (and there weren't many females in such majors at the time anyway). It needed to be a class I could manage an adequate grade in.

I remember the fourth one - it was Human Development. Yeah, so lets all be dismissive.

Quote: "You are an (unintentionally) funny man, Mr. Fudd!"

Maybe intentional :-)

I don't really care one way or the other PKponder TX. Flashbacks of my breaking up with an early boyfriend. He went around the school telling everyone he broke up with me. Whatever. I didn't bother to dispute it. I would hope most males would outgrow that after 9th-10th grade, 12th at the most. But apparently not.

Huh?

I feel bad for anyone with digestive problems. I've had migraines too. Your appetite withers away with the pain and you want to do nothing but sit in the quiet dark and wait for relief. Poor kid with both, no wonder he didn't feel like eating.

I hated eggs as a kid but I kept trying them as an adult until I could eat them. I still don't care for the smell of eggs. Trying something when you're really hungry is best. One vacation I was so hungry that I ate a big dried garlic mackerel from a market stall in Scandinavia. No one could believe it. Even the seller looked strangely at me when I asked for it in english.