Earlier this year, I noticed that Edmunds site said that they couldn't send roses to Idaho. Now there have never been such restrictions here on roses, and Idaho is not nearly as strict as California. I know of no other sellers that have this restriction, just Edmunds. What the heck is going on with these people? The inconsistencies are ridiculous. Diane

I looked at Spring Hill's roses - $49.99 for one rose! Absurd! They used to have reasonable prices, I was shocked to see this. They didn't have anything I wanted [ordered too much elsewhere!], but even if I did, not paying those prices. Too many other good vendors, will spend my money with them.

Judith

Yeah, but Judith they have a half price code on their catalog. I would never pay those prices!! It's like Brecks. They always have a half price, or $25 off of $50, $50 off $100, etc....

Oh! Didn't see that, will have to look again.........thanks!

I ordered foxgloves from Spring Hill, and then came very quickly. I wonder what the deal is with roses?

Jackie

Oh wow that's a bummer Kim! Well, like I said, I can wait til next yr when those roses (hopefully) will be available elsewhere! But the gall problem sounds horrific. I had it on my BUTTERSCOTCH CL rose a yr or so after I got it, but I cut it all out and sterilized it and whatever I used to cut it out with. As far as I know it never came back... but then, that rose has it's bud union below the surface, so who knows? It does ok tho, so I assume it's clean. I should take some cuttings off it tho in case it ever does die on me. Hope these growers can eradicate that stuff before next season!!

I remember buying a flat of plugs of 'Westerland' from Greenheart about 15 years ago and about 1/3 of the flat was infected with crown gall. It seems this isn't a new problem for the Greenheart folks.

Kim - Ball and Star do not produce liners. There are about 4 major own root liner producers in N. America. I have not seen the crown gall in this year's crop of own root roses so it is a surprise that this is being reported. Our licensees would be screaming about it now if there was a problem. Weeks does produce their own liners and I know nothing about what is happening with them.

There was a crown gall problem 2-3 years ago. I just have not seen
problems this harvest. I do visit the liner producers a couple times a
year and there have been a lot of procedures and controls put in place
since then. To suggest there has not been attention and $$$ invested in
prevention is just not the case Not all field producers have the best
controls, but some of them I visit are really up on the control and
spend more money on Galtrol than you can imagine.

There is somewhat of a shortage of roses this year, but mostly it is in non-patent budded crops. Budded crops have to be planted 2 years ahead of sales so there will always be a bit of mismatch with demand because of the speculative nature of this. Also we were just coming out of a recession so perhaps producers were being cautious. Most of us in the business are glad not to see the huge over supplies of past years repeated.

I have seen the problems right here in my own yard. All of the roses came from Greenheart Farms. I have now decided it is best for me to stay with own root roses from those growing their own cuttings. Just not worth it for me to bring in any more crown gall.

Patty - most everyone buys at least some liners from Greenheart.

Okay your right on that but some nurseries I believe are a little more careful with their reputation than say a place like Spring Hill or Michigan Bulb.

Can we buy roses from Greenheart Farms? I thought only nurseries can buy from them. Their prices must be cheap. Is Liner same as plug?

Greenheart is wholesale only, I believe.

Chris might correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I am; some clones/selections are far more prone to crown gall than others. I have seen seedling batches develop crown gall "out of nowhere" and it seems to be specific to certain breeding lines.

I stand corrected, Chris, about Ball and Star not producing liners, but don't they grow them on to larger plants for retail? Paul, I avoid anything derived from The Fairy, Bonica and Ballerina like the plague because of their addiction to gall. I've maintained many dozens of Flower Carpets of all permutations and they have all galled in the Los Angeles area. Francine Austin galls everywhere she touches the soil there. Unfortunately, I no longer have the photos of the Meilland landscape weepers purchased at Otto & Sons with galls down nearly every one of their canes (and on the trunks). Yes, some lines are extremely susceptible. Ralph Moore reported many years ago that Red Germain, a rose he sold to Germain's Nusery for "order premiums", later proved itself a gall magnate.

Kim you are spot on the cultivars with susceptibility to gall. Interesting they are still used in some breeding programs.

Ball is a broker of liners of a variety of genetic programs and brokers a couple of different liner producers. Star does broker some liners too, but most go to the fields for production of own root one-year plants. As you all know Star Roses sells a lot of roses in the market.

There have been some reports of gall being a problem in the budded rose fields too, but I have not seen this, I only heard some comments about it. If true, then gall has become more virulent. Crown gall is one of the biggest problems for greenhouses producing cut flowers roses the world over.

I always want to remind everyone that crown gall is a disease of a wide range of plants, not just roses. It is present in soil over a very wide area of N. America and may very well be present in the soils where you plant roses. It often can be fairly dormant and you will see no symptoms, but if the soil was tested it would be found to be present. Hot humid climates like Florida seem to have more problems with gall. Florida Ag gets aggressive about reports of crown gall in plants because it is a huge problem in the production of tropical foliage which is a pretty important economic crop for Florida.

It is often really hard to tell where the crown gall originates, the liner producer, the field grower, the container grower or the consumer's garden. It is spread through soil, mechanical wounding of plants and water - so a few plants with crown gall in a nursery can cause larger problems over time.

That said, yes the industry needs to take the utmost care in production. I find it interesting that the target seems to be Greenheart. I have observed that no other producer has addressed the problem and has taken more steps to make sure they have clean plants then Greenheart. They have hired the best consultants on crown gall and have worked with Oregon State and UC Davis to insure clean production. I think the problems are now limited or non existent at Greenheart. One of the largest growers of wholesale field grown own root plants has also really committed to procedures to minimize crown gall in the field. I think there will always be some problem as it has so far proved to be impossible to eradicate. There is some research being done in other plant species on the genetic markers for disease resistance. Intriguing and I hope that if they are successful we could apply some of this knowledge to rose genetics.

Thanks, Chris. I doubt gall can be eradicated. Even in "virgin soil", in which roses had never been planted, susceptible types developed it without any cultivating, weed whacking, digging in the beds, etc. It is simply part of the "California experience". It comes with the territory. Absolutely, selecting resistant types then practicing the best possible culture, should help reduce it, but that does little to reduce or eliminate the damage from gophers, moles, rats and other vermin. It definitely irritates when an otherwise apparently healthy plant develops gall in sterile potting soil without any mechanical damage and not coming in contact with "soil".