Maybe...I think some of theseare very recent additions to their collection,however.I did check on their site, and found all but Wang's Purple now on the official list. It's confusing, however, because they don't call Vicomtesse D'Avesnes a climber,yet another French site that I found on HMF describes it as a small climber (1.50/2.00 cms x 1.50 cms)

I sure miss Vintage Gardens'wonderful web site...those drawings that illustrated the habits were SO HELPFUL!

In a very, very general way, many Noisettes are considered to be ideal pillar roses and will tend to have a tall, narrow habit, and can be trained to climb a bit- or a lot. In the absence of real information about your varieties, this could be a hint, but Noisettes have varying genetics according to what they were bred from, so Tea-Noisettes, for example, can be large, tall, spready climbers. I'm sure you know to check the 'References' tab for roses at HMF, but some of your acquisitions may not have much info. I agree with Kim that any info you can get from the Hooks is likely to be your best guide.

If possible, you might find it useful to keep these in large pots for a while to see how they are inclined to grow, and then plant them out accordingly?

Good luck with your rarities,

Virginia

How wonderful to have received such rarities! Maybe any info you can find on direct ancestry will offer hints as well? I miss Vintage's site, too. I had hoped (when Vintage closed) that someone/some organization would offer to maintain it, darn it! Carol

Thank you for your comments! I do actually plan to grow them in pots for their first season, but I'm not very good with pot culture; it is so labour-intensive. So after the first season I'd prefer to plant them out.

In my garden, noisettes seem to all act very differently. Narrow Water, Jaune Desprez,Belle Vichyssoise all grew quickly and well as obvious climbers. Crepuscule , too, though that poor thing had to cope with awful soil.I've got about four plants of what I assume are all Blush Noisettes (one of these was supposed to be Ornement des Bosquets,another Belle Vichyssoise,the third I'm not sure, but I wound up with four that all seem to be Blush Noisette...) and these all grow like shrubs, but many people say that that is what BN is supposed to do. Then there are the frustrating Deschamps and especially Fellemberg. Both of these seem to refuse to put on any size ,though they do try to bloom a lot, so maybe if I keep on pinching off buds they'll eventually do something,(unless it's just the bad soil issues again). Bougainville seems to want to be a shrub, and is basically following the growth habit depicted on Vintage's site. I, too, so wish that the site could've been maintained, Carol.

FWIW, here's a very early reference describing 'Lily M' from Journal des Roses, 1877:

Rosiers noisettes.

Lily Mestchersky, fleur moyenne, très-pleine, bien faite, très-remontante, rouge violacé, la seule de ce coloris dans son genre; bois foncé grimpant, très-épineux et d'une grande vigueur.

Roughly translates as:

Noisette Roses.

Lily Mestchersky, a very full, well-formed flower of medium size, very remontant, of a purplish red color unique to this class; a strong climber, very prickly and of great vigor.

I have an uneasy feeling that I already had added this reference to the HMF record, but it is not there, so I'm worried that references may have been lost when HMF did a recent "upgrade". I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed any HMF records that seem to have fewer references than before...

Virginia

Not yet, because they are still working on the system. I haven't been able to add references nor new nursery listings since the upgrade. They know and they are working on it. Hopefully, what appears to be lost information is simply a temporary glitch. Good job picking that one out of thin air! You're impressive! LOL!

And another reference for 'Vicomtesse d'Avesnes' from La Belgique Horticole, 1854:

Noisettes.

Vicomtesse d'Avesnes. (Ræser.) — Plante très-vigoureuse, fleurs moyennes, pleines et bien faites, rose lilacé.

Très-bonne variété propre à garantir les berceaux, tonnelles, etc., remontant assez franchement, aussi vigoureuse greffée que franche de pied.

Translating as:

Noisettes.

Vicomtesse d'Avesnes. (Ræser.) — A very vigorous plant with medium-sized, full and well-formed flowers of a lilac pink color.

A very good variety for beds, arbors, etc., repeating well and vigorous when grafted.

Kim, it isn't just that one reference, but an impression that some records used to have more references than are currently showing up. Hopefully, if I'm right that things went AWOL, the glitch will be fixable.

Thanks,

Virginia

Thanks, Virginia, understood.

Thank you so much to going to the trouble to hunt up that info for me, Virginia. I hope that they will really prove to be "trés vigoureuse" and "d'une grande vigeur" in my garden. Fellemberg is "very vigourous" according to HMF, but not as far as I've seen! My older one has been there more than 7 years and is only about 1-2 feet high at most,and no wider-bad soil,perhaps? but the younger one I put in two-three years ago hasn't been impressing me either...