CMK, I remember reading you have drainage issues. We had a little bit of that ‘wet without draining’ in early spring, a couple of times when it rained and the ground was still frozen. I thought I was going to have trouble and I don’t know why I didn’t. I normally have good drainage though, so that must make the difference. I’m sorry you don’t. :-( That must be a particularly aggravating problem. I wonder if you’ve ever considered raised beds? I had plants very slow to show up this spring, so I was considering that I might have lost them, and at the time, I was thinking maybe I should add more conifers, until I visited the Conifer forum in the spring and they were posting long lists of plants they lost! So, if you are thinking about it, I’d read some of their posts on which ones they lost. :-) Mnwsgal, sorry to hear of your losses too. I have never had much luck wintering over in the garage. And the snowplow frequently digs into some edge of the front yard. We have a bed that borders the street, but it has a rock edge to it, which I suppose must help. Of course, they don't actually see the rocks under the snow, and once they did plow into those. Wow, what a noise that made! And 12ft of rock edge had to be reset, but I didn't lose any plants. [g] I wish we had sidewalks.

I look at it this way in simpler terms of course..... I am brain dead and bored, so here it goes..lol I if don't make sense, pardon me. If I can't or do not know how to grow anything in a pot with a Perched Water Table, which I mostly do not, then I won't use a soil that encourages it. Using bottom stones, or even water proof packing peanuts which don't weigh the pot down never helped me. By the way, if your determined to use bottom material, this is the way to go. No more heavy pots.:-) I have killed a many plants in the past this way. The bottom roots being wet ,stuck in that PWT above the stones, never drying out while the top half of the roots keep getting watered because I keep watering the top of soil that is bone dry. My roots can be thirsting for water even 4 inches down into my pots from the top, while the bottom half of the roots are in that PWT portion staying wet, never drying out. And rocks on the bottom of any pot does not get rid of that PWT. It just makes it higher. The Perched Water Table depending on the soil you use will be there, and maybe not if you use a wick or a fast draining soil. Of course this is not a concern to me in any pot smaller than 6 inches... They dry out fast, especially if they are in clay. I typically use something other than the gritty soil for these. But when I move up to a bigger pot, I am not willing to take the risk of root rot. Some people here can grown plants in any size pot with a PWT and have sucess. Some in 30 gallon barrels! I am not one of those..:-( This is why I use A'ls gritty mix minus the fines that could settle down at the bottom of pot and stay wet while the top of the soil gets dry. Bonsai have very shallow roots, therefore grown in shallow pots, and this is how a many of my friends including myself have killed our Bonsai. You can have a PWT in soil as deep as one inch. We can't afford to have a PWT at all in such shallow pots! On this we take NO chances. I can not afford to have a PWT also in big sized pots for regular plants. Since they and I changed to Al's gritty mix, we have been sucessful, with no Perched Water Table and bottom root rot, even in rainy everday weather if pots are left out all summer. We just have to water more often when because the soil dries out quicker. :-) Jean, I have done the same thing to most of my pots, especially the ones my Clivias are in. They are thriving!! I even drill bigger holes at the bottom of my plastic ones and hammer out a huge circle hole on the bottom of my clay ones, then use screen to stop the soil from falling through. I can only imagine the roots breathing all that air from the bottom!lol,and the water exchange because of this.:-) I love that Container Soils thread, at least what I can understand of it! One thing I did learn, I never knew what a PWT was until I read that thread. That was the culprit to the death of all my plants! Thanks for that thread Al! Thanks for all the great info everyone! Take care all! Mike

Actually, all you need to do for a lemon tree is plant it in loose soil, water the soil lightly, and stick it in a ziplock bag. See this thread: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/trees/msg111341588777.html That lemon tree is mine. I grew from seed. All I did was (STEP BY STEP leaving out absolutely NO information) 1) I grabbed the seed from a lemonade drink made from a lemon bought from a lemonade stand, this past summer 2) put the seeds in a cup of water. All of them sank(sadly, I have no clue where they are now) 3) Placed them in a container somewhere (except for 6) 4) took that plastic cup and cut some holes in the bottom 5) put soil (which turned out to be harder than rock when watered) inside the cup 6) stuck the seed in the cup 7) watered the soil lightly 8) stuck the seed in a plastic ziplock baggy 9) put it on the counter 9) Forgot it was even there About 2 weeks later, I said "OH CRAP! AM I TOO LATE? IS IT DEAD? I CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT IT!!! OH MY GOSH, PLEASE DON'T BE DEAD! PLEASE DON'T BE DEAD!!!" After panicking and looking for about 20 minutes, I finally found it buried under a lot of crap. I looked into the bag and I'm thinking, "Awwwwww!!!! It's so cute!!!" There was a little lemon tree with it's first two leaves sprouting. After I saw that, I stuck it in the windowsill where it's currently working on it's 5th leaf while finishing up it's 4th. It's the most beautiful thing ever. I would've increased the germination rate though to all six seeds instead of 1 of 6 if I had followed the directions provided online though(nick the seed coat and all that other stuff). But really, just planting the seed and forgetting about it for about 1-2 weeks seemed to work fine. I probably just got lucky though.

My Variegated Pink Lemon is a very pretty tree but more finicky than most of my other citrus trees. Mine is in a container. I find it likes a bit more shade in the summer than most of my other trees too. The new leaves are pinkish-purple and so are the flower buds. It is blooming in my greenhouse now. It's fruit are variegated too when it is not ripe, but turns yellow and loses most of the variegation when it ripens. Sometimes the raised lines where some of the stripes on the fruit are remains raised after it turns yellow. It tastes like the Eureka lemon that is not variegated.