I think everything is a tradeoff. For example, we bought our lot and then the extra half lot and then found a beautiful affordable parcel overlooking the bay. Of course we don't know why they are having so much trouble selling the parcel, so it may have some problems we don't know about. Plus while it's in a very desirable neighborhood, it would mean we'd have to live in our car to get anywhere. Hence what I mean by everything being a tradeoff.

You can rue the idea that you could have had "better" or you can take what you have and make it better.

Cp, agreed this our mindset. You have such wisdom Take care and I'm so happy for you and your new build.

I know a couple who bought a 3.5 million dollar house in LA, and before they even moved, found one they liked better, bought it and sold the other one. Easy to do if one is an investment banker...

But Anglo, here in LA, sadly that 3.5 mill doesn't buy you anything that special ... ;-)

I've had the opposite happen more often. Missed out on a house or got out-bid, got really sad about it, but soon enough a much better home came on the market and we were able to buy that one.

We bought about 6 years ago and I've kept up with the market. In that time nothing has come up for sale in town that has made me want to sell, buy and move.

Land shopping and wedding gown shopping are soooo similar -- Be careful in your selection, and once you've made your purchase, STOP LOOKING. ;-)

You know how many girls I've known who ended up with two or three gowns? lol And my folks are currently looking at a third land purchase, having not done a single thing to the first two parcels. They now want to sell the first two lots, and will sell at a loss.

Craziness.

Not long ago the fellow building a house around the corner from my dad rang his doorbell and asked about gaining lake access. Disappointed in the answer, he asked if dad would be interested in selling his house and lot, and the fellow would sell his unfinished house! I asked my dad why he didn't answer with a dollar amount!

Yes.

About 5 years ago or so, we wanted to be in a specific location. We looked around for awhile and didn't see anything for sale we liked. So when we found a lot in our desired location we decided to build new.

If you've ever built new, you know that you typically pay a premium for that choice. Everything costs more and takes longer than you ever expected.

So we were maybe 6 months or so into our build and I was stressed and exhausted with the whole thing. My house was at the "it looks like a bomb went off in here" stage. My front "lawn" was a rutted mess, my side yard had a full dumpster in it.

Driving to the job site one day, I saw a "for sale" sign in the house 3 doors up from mine. It was bigger than my new house, had some nicer finishes than my new house, it was DONE, and it was substantially cheaper than mine. I sat there and stared. It had landscaping, flowers were blooming, and it was all staged and pretty for sale. Then I looked at my dirt encrusted half done house...and just about cried.

But you know what? I eventually realized, no matter what you choose - something better will almost always come along. That's the nature of the beast.

And I can honestly tell you, 5 years later, I'm glad we did build. Now that it's over. ;)

Anglo..very true if one has xtra $$ to spend and does not mind risk

Chispa..I am glad it turned out well for you

one devoted dame..love the analogy, never thought of wedding dresses compared to real estate. In our case it's a lot up the road that just came up for sale.

pbathome..wise decision on your dads part, anything with water priceless

patriceny....thank you so much, your situation is very similar to ours. We have not broken ground yet. But the lot, with better orientation (south) and wider just came up for sale. We are not risk takers, so we will keep our current one.

Yes ... I realized that if we had used different search parameters a house with more bedrooms and a bigger lot would have been available for less money. For the price difference, we could have added the bathrooms!

But it's not worth losing sleep over.

Lazy-gardens...awe thank you...!

Of course, but we are happy with the decisons as the best we could make at the time, with our constraints and circumstances. It does not good to stress about something that's int he past. Make the best of what you have!

My example- a BEAUTIFUL lot near ours was the same price, with 3 100 year old oaks on it. Lovely, lovely trees. We went to walk the lot, and although it's up on a hill, there was a large depression right behind the trees, and we didn't have the cash to spend filling it in to put a house and yard on the site (1 acre). Oh well!

Never had that happen but have had a few times where I'm designing a house for one site and the client becomes interested in another one mid stream.

Probably the best documented one was a about five years ago. Very difficult site. Here within 1000' of the Chesapeake Bay shoreline there are strict rules about impervious area, slopes, run off, keeping existing trees, etc.

This site, while not waterfront, was across a road from the water (sweeping Severn River views) and looking over the community park, so no worries about a house being there. Serious privacy concerns as we had the road in front and in the back was a R/W to three other houses plus the community tennis court (actually part of their property was ON the court, platted 100 years ago, and THAT counted against their impervious too!). We were required to access it off of the rear R/W which normally wouldn't have been a big deal.

We obviously wanted to bring the house as forward toward the water as possible but if we did that the driveway from the R/W would get longer and thus more impervious. The only way to maintain impervious was to keep the house to the rear.

Anyway, I came up with an "L" shaped concept which not only stretched out the house towards the water, it created a private "court" in the "L", not seen from the tennis court as it was being higher. One concern was the elevation change which I managed to make gradual. It's here:

Don't know if my impervious calcs will be legible here but we're tight. So much so I had to cantilever the house 2' over the driveway to make the number.

Anyway, half way through the construction docs another house came on the market a few doors down and they ended up buying that (we basically tore off the second floor there and rebuilt it). They never actually closed on the lot but fortunately got their deposit back.

A few months later, the lot came under contract again. I was aware of who bought it via the grapevine and it crossed my mind that, since this lot required a unique solution, to contact my clients about going forward with the new people if they could be reimbursed for work done to date. I'm sure they would have been most happy to do so.

Ultimately, I did not go forward with that idea. I was worried about my "big idea" being "stolen". The second folks were obviously going to want to see the design and, while I was not going to leave anything with them, in a 30 minute review meeting, while they probably wouldn't remember where the powder room was for example, they would remember the "Parti" or the "Big Idea"...the "L" shaped concept, and I didn't want them taking that to someone else.

They went ahead with another local architect. It's rare to see another's solution for a "real life project" and here's what he came up with given the same impervious hurdles, a square footprint in the back of the lot.

And the from the back R/W and tennis court with the same level change I had to deal with. A concrete stair is to the left of the porch:

Interesting exercise however.

WOW, that's really neat to see that ARG.

I was thinking about this thread.. And I understand buyers remorse.

But ultimately, you can't really live life this way. If you do, you'll never make a decision at all- a house, a car, TV, computer? I mean at some point you have to take the leap and stop looking. Midway through negotiating to buy our farm (it took 1 year and 9 months from start until closing), a property I had inquired about buying a few years prior came up for auction as the owner passed away. It is closer to my office too. We were in shock. What should we have done? We ultimately chose to continue our negotiations as we felt buying the property would mean getting a house built in the 80's (complete with 80's HVAC and windows, etc) versus buying land and building new. Right decision, who knows? But I can't worry about it now. We keep planning our new build- I think in the end its going to cost us more money. But the views are nicer, and something about the farm we bought just sings to me :)

Architectrunner. Your story about putting together an awesome home plan vs another architect's design idea is exactly the reason, is why I am a bit frightened or Leary about trusting someone to design my home.

My wife and I have owned 7 different primary residences in 25 years and I can honestly say that I've had zero regrets after our purchase...also purchased 4 different lots for "maybe" builds and only built on 1 (where we now live) and no regrets. After a year or 2 in a home I have very little attachment to it and am ready to move on to the next one...wife doesn't feel quite the same way though :). We have also purchased and sold quite a few homes, condos, and lots strictly for investment purposes and zero regrets on these....it may sound kind of cold but it is just business to me.

Your story......is why I am a bit frightened or Leary about trusting someone to design my home.

And trust is critical in any relationship with a good architect. I wrote about it on another thread. For convenience I C&P'ed it here.....

A good architect, when given the chance, will provide a design that can give a client everything they want, but often in ways completely unexpected. But for that to happen it takes a critical element necessary on the part of the client in every successful project and that element is trust.

Often during our initial meeting, the client will reveal their ability or inability to trust others. If I feel the element of trust is not there they will likely be referred to a permit drafter. A creative person should explore other approaches with you in the spirit of "That's great but have you thought of this.......". But for that to be carried forward successfully it takes a trusting client to not only allow the architect to expand on alternative ideas but to objectively look at other approaches in a collaborative effort with the architect. And that's an intangible that all successful projects are born out of.

And as an aside, that's why the charrette process works so well in that ideas can be explained, heard, modified, explored, remodified and evaluated all in their rough form and all in real time. I can't tell you how many times a client sitting across the table from me has said "Wow! We never thought of that. We like the kitchen idea but how 'bout if we move the entry here and the...." As I hand them the pen. In some of those design sessions the client commands the pen almost as much as I do!

Just be ready to expect any preconceived ideas to be questioned. They may in fact turn out to be perfectly valid but at least they've been evaluated against alternates as any good architect should do.

Finally, regarding preconceived ideas, I've quoted on this board before these two quotes by two creative people.....

Henry Ford observed "If I had asked people what they wanted they would have told me "A faster horse".

And Steve Jobs mused “A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them. Everyone wanted an iPhone when they first appeared, but no one could have described what they wanted before seeing one".

So put trust in your architect to carry you through the process in the spirit of Mr. Ford and Mr. Jobs and you'll have a home that is the very best.

And speaking of the best, here's wishing you the best of luck with your project. Exciting times!

pbathome..wise decision on your dads part, anything with water priceless

P G, no, he should have named his price. Dad is 90, mom 93, they need incentive to move out of the 6,000 sf on 20+ acres into a condo!

Architectrunner. Wrote "Often during our initial meeting, the client will reveal their ability or inability to trust others"

I totally agree with this statement. The client depends on the pro. but i have seen so many people who were disappointed with the design process, including multiple back and forth changes due to not being ' on the same page''. With the end result being waste of time, money effort etc. this despite, reference checks etc.

My question, then, is it ok for me to ask for some kind of a concept to see his thoughts on how he would design the home?

Pbathome...oh I get what you are saying...at this stage of their lives ..I hope they realize that selling sooner is better than later.

It never happened to me . . . but I have noticed my neighbor's grass is greener.

My question, then, is it ok for me to ask for some kind of a concept to see his thoughts on how he would design the home?

Not a thing in the world wrong with that. However in that kind of arrangement, there still has to be the element of trust on the clients part to maximize best results.

And the best way to represent that trust is for the client to have something of worth to them on the table as part of the relationship. And the easiest thing to do that, is with money.

It's all well and good to say "show me something" without investing anything but on the other hand if you say to me, "Here. Here's something of value to me, now show me something of equal or greater value." Then I know that mentally you've already crossed that "trust" bridge and decided that what I have to say will have value to you. And a trusting attitude is critical for success. Kinda like the difference between me saying "Here. Here's two free movie tickets" to "I have two movie tickets. They're $20 each". The difference between the two is with the latter the "value/trust" question is going to be crossing your mind because you're required to have something of value in the arrangement. And if the answer to that is "yes", then you're far more likely to enjoy the movie because you already decided before seeing it, it has value.

To be honest, I look on money more as an element in measuring client trust than having something to put in the bank. That's nice too but I look on that as "gravy".

And then of course as a sidebar, one has to wonder about the folks who represent themselves as committed to spending several hundred thousand dollars in an endeavor but run fast away from an initial design consultation fee. When one thinks about it, there's probably not much client trust there so it's a "win" for the designer.

I used to do stuff here for free. Then realized the element of trust was missing. I then asked for a donation to some charity, St. Jude and the clients local SPCA being two. But after a while I wasn't really sure that was happening so now to get around the "trust" element, I get a check and then I can make a donation.

Interestingly, when I can't find an unsolved crossword or Suduko puzzle, I sit in my recliner watching TV and "solve" GardenWeb puzzles. I end up putting "pen to paper" for most "dilemmas" posted here. The fun thing is there is no pressure. No "trust", so no expectations and no pressure to be brilliantly creative. LOL! A rare few I've posted but most I don't because of well, there's that five letter word again "trust". Here's one that I only have in a digital form because I sent it off to someone (no, not the poster):

Most is still my head. Trust me here (geez! That word again!).

So, for best results, take that leap of faith.

And I've been thinking a while about posting something about closed design competitions. I've been involved in three over the years and the client always benefited greatly.

I "trust" this answers your question.

Architectrunner. You are obviously very talented and probably able to glean a lot from your clients wish or needs lists. We recently spoke to a few architects and some just blew off my thoughts and pointed me to their previous designs...showing me what they did for clients, suggesting that I might like something similar. Noooo, not the type of home I was looking for, too cookie cutter for me...

i have been influenced by design thoughts on this forum and suggested a T or L shape, given the constraints of our lot..so I was quite surprised when one pro immediately said no...and brought me to his show home...I expected something awesome or different. boy what a let down when upon opening the front door, immediately walked into a strep set of stairs...and he was quite proud that the house, custom designed was sold at a ridiculous price...

PG even architects are not perfect. To give you an idea of what I mean, here is a town house that DH and I looked at before we found our lot. If you look carefully you can see what the major problem is. (Hint, it's two problems related on the second floor. And no, it's not the size of the balconies although those are ridiculous too.) This townhouse was designed by one of the most well known and supposedly most respected architects in this area.

When I pointed out the mistake to the saleswoman, she was flabbergasted and assured me that, "no way it was meant to be that way and it must be drawn incorrectly."

The next day she got back to me to let me know that, "yes, the way it's drawn is correct and it's not going to change."

We thanked her for her time and let her know we wouldn't be buying there.

Hi CP. are u referring to the fact that the elevator goes only to the MB . Thus the only access to the 2nd bedroom, is via the Master. Indeed a strange design and I bet many would not notice it till after buying and living in the house

Exactly PG. Not only that but to go up the stairs from the second floor to the roof deck, would mean you need to also walk through the master bedroom to get to the roof. Can you imagine having a party and having 10 or 20 folks walking through your bedroom to get to the roof.

I guess getting back to the point of your questions to me and hiring the right person PG, let me quote another architect here... "Don't put time constraints on the selection of
an architect. It's akin to selecting a spouse, you will know when you find the
right one. It's even easier, you don't have to sit through boring dinners or
watch movies together." Mark Bischak

The first one's didn't work out but you'll find the right one.

CP, I guess they just want everyone to take the elevator up? Crazy. Better hope there's no power outage! Oh, wait, you're at a party on the room, you'll have booze, cheese platters, and a view of the chaos below lol!

ARG, that's a great way to express it: you're about to drop a lot of money and emotion on the place you will LIVE, why skimp on the first step?

cP., pbathome...it took me awhile to see the design flaw..and absolutely amazing that it occurred...Must be party time on the bedroom floor lol

and yes, I am abt to drop a nice chunk of change, and can't afford to make a mistake. Cheese platters sound yummy by the way.

Architectrunner ....we just sent in our list, this guy at least listened to what we said and was right on board re our thoughts with how we should "plop" the house on the lot. In fact, he looked st the sun path, looked at the very boring surroundings etc and yup...our first instincts were correct...(DH walked the lot many many times in the past year, did his own research...but it was nice to get professional confirmation). And it was -10c outside....wish I was in Florida.

And another thing the "money on the table" thing gets around is use of ideas. Back in my early naive days I would present basic ideas for no fee. Leave, and then about a year later would drive by the house and see all MY ideas are there, in built form. Would call "Oh yeah, we used a draftsman". Now in my charettes, I leave ALL sketches with the client and leave with a check. And if they go to someone else with all MY ideas, I'm flattered.

Architectrunner ... the illicit use of your ideas is sad, its unfortunate that people don't disclose their intent and/financial constraints, thus giving the pro an opportunity to bid the job.

In our case, we have submitted our needs/wants list, along with our idea of a potential L plan which we threw together. We, however, clearly stated that we are open to thoughts, suggestions, ideas etc.

we figure this will at least help to see if we are on the same "wave" length. I.e if he comes back with "complicated fat' house idea then we will know he's not the guy for us.