Hi guys, I was literally just about to start a thread called "trouble in paradise" because I have had a few problems this season too!

My yuzu that has never seemed to recover after repotting into 511 was experiencing major die back and I just had to chop it WAY back almost to the graft... not sure if it will make it. Also my citrumelo that frankly never looked that hot from the day I got it last summer just got the same treatment... again not sure if it will make it.... and lastly the brand new record buck thorny key lime I got in Sept last year just totally croaked on me! Completely unexplained die back like Laura's kumquat. Brutal!

It must have to do with my repotting techniques... that is the only common denominator. I am going to reread Laura's post about her citrus observations... I think I may rethink my whole philosophy on repotting as soon as trees arrive.... and I am starting to believe the story about citrus liking tight pots.... all my trees that are looking good for the most part in smaller pots.

I will be watering and checking out my trees this weekend... will post pics.

Sorry to hear hobbyartisan, I too repotted all of mine in 511 this year for the first time and they all died... Mine were thriving outside after I repotted them, but I clearly have no idea how to work with 511 inside.

And I shall study up on Laura's posts as well! I believe plants in smaller pots are generally easier not to overwater, which is a common cause for their demise. I have a hard time keeping them up in the wind, so I opted for larger pots... Probably a mistake there...

I'm so sorry Cory, Hiro, and Hobby! I understand how you guys feel! Let me clarify, most of my trees are NOT in tight fitting pots - for better or worse. I repotted them this summer into larger pots than most needed. Honestly, aside from some leaf drop of three Meyers (Alexander and his girlfriends ;-), my only issue has been with the kumquat. I did what Tropic said...cut back and sprayed down with 50/50 water alcohol mix. He has no leaves left, but the twigs have not died back more yet. I'm still not optimistic. Here's a pic...

here's part of the rest of the clan. ;-)

The beast is still alive.

There are two problems with using a too large container:

1) Danger of overwatering

2) Breaking the four inch rule: https://rootmaker.com/sites/default/files/pdf/4inchRuleWeb.pdf

I hope he hangs on Steve! How soon can I spray him with alcohol solution again?

once each night would be fine. you might place rags in the pot to keep excess out of the soil.

Using an oversized pot in a fine mixture such as Miracle Grow does pose the danger of over watering but not in porous mixes like many use here.

Interesting article by Root Maker tm. I don't know if much of it is true. My tree that broke the 4 inch rule

Cuban Shaddock from cuttings · More Info

I'm still confused - I've watered perhaps once every two weeks in 511 and the mix is still wet. I always let the pot on its side to drain for a few minutes and never let water stand. The simplest conclusion is that my 511 wasnt made properly? It's funny to me since my orchids (Catts that supposedly hates wet feet) grow happily in sphagnum moss submerged in water, while citrus grown in wood bark seems to stay wet after 2 weeks... oy vey...

Hiro, I have the same results with 511.

Since it's almost the end of January I thought I'd post some pics from yesterday I took while walking my yard. First photos are of my key lime that's starting to wake up and of some fruits that I just discovered.

Key lime tree on C35 · More Info

Key lime tree on C35 · More Info

Key lime tree on C35 · More Info

Key lime tree on C35 · More Info

And here is the new tango mandarin I just planted a couple weeks ago already starting to grow.

Tango mandarin on sour orange rootstock · More Info

Tango mandarin on sour orange rootstock · More Info

Tango mandarin on sour orange rootstock · More Info

Evan

Evan, outstanding as always..Thank you so much for picking up my spirits today! So pretty and I bet all your trees are sensing the longer days and hotter sun coming along..I love them.

My 5.1.1 mix does not stay wet like many here have had issues with in my containers nor is it suppose to...It does stay moist which does still allow oxygen to the root zone, but not wet and that is never an issue with my trees no matter what size pot larger than the roots...

If your mix is staying 'wet' too long, then it was not made correctly, the roots have died off, improper drainage, your trees are kept very cold, in the dark, or the finer particles have gravitated towards the bottom of the container...

if one was to stick their trees in a pot almost a bit bigger than the roots ball, like a one size up in the 5.1.1 mix, they would find their pots drying out too quickly to keep up with watering even in the winter...

I would make sure that no one does not under water by mistake just once so that many finer roots die off then once they stop working, even the 5.1.1 mix will stay wet too long for failure of root absorption..

Progression of growth

C-35 shares home with volunteer tomato, Meiwa shares home with purslane

sweet potato slips with their covers on

6b Steve

Mike, here's a couple gratuitous desert scape pics, not citrus but I know you like the drought resistant plants I have too.

Ponytail palm

desert plants · More Info

Penstemon coming to life with blooms

desert plants · More Info

Aloe barbadensis hybrid

desert plants · More Info

Germander that only blooms for a couple weeks a year but they're gorgeous flowers.

desert plants · More Info

Evan

Steve, what is the eggshell/coffee mix for?

Evan oh man, that Pony Tail Palm looks so majestic with nothing planted around it..It is like a show piece! I love that plant and it has always been one of my favorites..You can never get one to look that full up here..Is that the same one you almost lost to a hard freeze last year? It is simply beautiful! I love how you have surrounded all your plants with what looks like desert sand..So clean and neat. I wish I could get an Aloe to flower like that..Have you ever grown them for medicinal purposes? You are right beautiful flowers! It must be almost that time of year when it rains there and all the cactus that lie in wait to bloom explode like fireworks for you...Thanks so much for the extra pics..You know me well..)))

Beautiful desert flowers Evan!

This is my last Dancy. It has been ripe for a while but I let it hang on the tree as I know I will miss it when it is gone when I go looking for fruit in the greenhouse. It tastes great. I guess it had plenty of time to sweeten up.

Cory

Coffee egg shell mix is used on my roof top garden The dirt on my garden is made up of near 100% rotting tree leaves I pick up on the curbside on trash day. 600 bags per year. I augment with coffee/eggshells, twigs and small sticks, kitchen waste and liquid human gold. I also use grass fertilizer for the high nitrogen required to break down the leaves. I compost the leaves on the rooftop an provide soiltubes to the soil below the leaf surface for the plants roots.

6b Steve

Steve, I am going to start collecting used coffee grinds from Dunkin Donuts..Huge pale loads and spread it on my yard and the dirt in my greenhouse...You would not believe all the worms that come about!

Sorry about your luck too Hiro- I wonder if your mix was too peaty? It's possible mine was a tad too peaty but only a handful of trees out of 36 have had any trouble so I'm thinking mine was ok. However, I wonder if maybe I should have used smaller pots. I use 5 gallon buckets so they definitely weren't too wide but maybe too deep?

Thanks Laura, yes I know you use bigger pots so that can't be the universal issue either. I am thinking it had to do with poor transplanting on my part- I must have left too much original dirt in the rootball. We shall see when I do a post mortem on the key lime and the citrumelo. I'm hoping the Yuzu will pull through.

Mike

If you spread it on your yard you will be cutting grass 24/7/half the year. Be careful.

Gorgeous trees Evan and Steve! Cory your dancy looks incredible, I forgot the rind looked like that. I definitely want to get one now lol.

Here's the Yuzu, what do we think, will it make it? It used to be almost 4 feet tall but has been dying back.

Hobby, your trees look great. That yuzu does not look bad although you've cut it as you said. What is left looks great. Your other trees look great also. I suspect the curly leaves are caused by some type of bug that got them when tiny. I have had that happen to a few of mine. I've been fighting whiteflies in my sunroom, which is annoying. Evan, I'm so glad your new tango is already flourishing. That is great! Hiro, started modifying the 5-1-1 to more like 5-1.5-.5 bark, coarse perlite, and peat moss. I did not do that initially but started changing it around towards the later part of the summer. I find that the trees with that dry out more than the ones in my original 5-1-1.

Thanks Laura, whiteflies are a pain! I hope you get em. I just did another spray down with hort oil, I saw some mite residue although not really any webs. Yours are all looking amazing as usual. Did you get your mites under control?

Gorgeous tree's, succulents and tomato plants guy's .

Brian

Hobby, the curling leaves in my case are caused by aphids. I am having a hard time with them this year. They really go after the new growth and flowers. The damage seems to be done even before I notice the aphids. John Merr always says to kill the ants and you will no longer have aphids, but I cannot see any ants especially not farming them. Maybe they come out at night? Last year no aphids but lots of scale. Fortunately, no scale yet this year. There's always something though.

Cory

Cory, I didn't know the dancy looked like that, almost looks like a kaffir lime crossed with a mandarin.

Mike, I thought you'd enjoy the perennial pics, glad you liked them.

Laura, thanks! I think it's just because it's that time of year for me, everything starts to grow due to the lengthening days and warming sun. We hit 73 degrees today and will be in the mid 70's all week, time to drop fertilizer for me.

Brian, good to see you buddy.

Evan

Hi Cory,

A few ladybugs will go a long way with aphids, they can clean up even the most outrageous infestations.

Stefan

Evan, yes this Dancy looks very bumby skinned. The others on the tree were smooth and thinner skinned. Maybe this one is bumpy because it was on the tree so long. It was sweet with a little tartness and very juicy even though it was on the tree so long. It peeled very easily and had to be clipped off the tree.

Cory

Stephan, I was thinking about getting some ladybugs! I also read they hate onions and garlic and that chases them away. Maybe I been to grow a few pots of them in the greenhouse too.

Cory

I'd love ladybugs, but don't want to release them in my house...lol! I have found one or two actually in there, but have not seen any lately. Thanks Hobby, I think they are under control but I am spraying various concoctions every two or three days and trying to mist them almost daily with water. I think I may water tomorrow, but I misted everyone tonigh. Your trees look fantastic too...so green and healthy...lots of blooms also!

Today.

6b Steve

Thanks Cory and Laura! Cory definitely no aphids in my room at all... in fact I think my aggressive oil treatments killed all my scale too. As I mentioned I have seen some potential mite action on the higher tips of the trees where it is drier... so just did another treatment. That Buddha's hand is clean as a whistle for sure so it's weird? That's what made me think of a watering issue, I have been militant to let my pots dry right out before watering again... almost to the point of letting them get too dry. I'll keep an eye on it.

Laura I have noticed that the trees that have our lamps pointing right at them are doing the best and have the most blooms so the extra light must help. I have 4 more lamps here waiting to go but I have had the bulbs on order for over a month! Dying for them to get here.

It is an exciting time of year though isn't it? The days are definitely getting longer here.... looking forward to the 2017 season!!

I have been meaning to ask if anyone knows who this little creepy is? I have seen a couple of them in my room. I was thinking a ladybug larva molting but not sure? Maybe this is the culprit.

Blech!! I retract my statement about "eradicating my scale problem"... it looks like cotton cushiony scale! Great a new kind lol. The good news is that they are huge and easy to spot and don't seem to move around at all. I think I got them all.... they are squishy and sticky and much more disgusting than regular scale.

There were none on the buddha's hand though... I had another good look.

Ponytail palms, pic just taken a few mins ago.

About 12 years old, had them since they were tiny little things and now 3 feet tall (not counting the pot height).

Hobby, those scale are nasty! I hope you got them all! I know what you mean about the lights...my trees seem to love them - the closer the better - although we have suffered a few burnt leaves. Even those not right under them are growing, although since I have so many there is a lot of brightness in there ;-). Additionally, they heat up the room well - I've only had to turn the heat on two nights maybe. At night, the temp is often in the upper 50s and quickly rises when the lights go on.

Yeah they were really gross! I haven't noticed any burning from the lamps but I have kept them a few inches away at least. Good tip to keep an eye out for that though :).

Another observation I have been pondering... I know that we all like to order the biggest trees we can find but I wonder if maybe smaller is better? From my observations this year it seems my smaller trees seemed to acclimatize best.

But again, maybe that has to do more with the pot size than with actual tree size. If some of you guys remember my "little cuties" post about my 1 gallon trees from last summer, those all seem to be thriving. I did repot them into 511 but then put them right back into the same size pot and they are just booming now.

So I wonder?

Hooby I agree 100% on buying small trees instead of big. Most citrus trees grow so fast that it is not worth buying a larger tree that often has root problems. They are easy to transplant to their new home and start growing sooner than the larger trees. They also cost a lot less often 2 or more small trees to the price of a large tree. Buying a 20 tree from Harris or Briteleaf is the way to go.

Buying a $20 tree and put it in a $40 hole is better than a $40 tree to put in a $20 hole

6b Steve

Hobby I agree 100% on buying small trees instead of big. Most citrus trees grow so fast that it is not worth buying a larger tree that often has root problems. They are easy to transplant to their new home and start growing sooner than the larger trees. They also cost a lot less often 2 or more small trees to the price of a large tree. Buying a 20 tree from Harris or Briteleaf is the way to go.

Buying a $20 tree and put it in a $40 hole is better than a $40 tree to put in a $20 hole

6b Steve

I think you are right Hobby and Steve. I hope so because I just ordered two Buddha's hand from Logees...regular and variegated ;-)

That's a great point Steve... the older the tree, the higher the chance of root problems/rot that only get exacerbated/noticed once we try to repot. This may be why I am always complaining about my record buck trees... I have tended to buy the biggest ones and the rootballs have always completely grown into hard-packed, super fine mix that I can never get rid of... hence transplant shock and an ailing tree. The one smaller one I have from them, a varigated eureeka, has bounced back the best and is doing really well.

I think previously I was in the "bigger is better" camp... I may be changing my tune. Also smaller trees are cheaper to ship :).

That being said, the 1 Four Winds tree I have, my oro blanco, was in quite nice mix and when I repotted it the roots came easily free of the mix so that was a pleasure to repot. It also suffered no transplant shock so perhaps you can go bigger when coming from a vendor that uses a good mix.

Just my musings! :)

A variegated Buddha's hand Laura??? Now I'm really jealous. It will be gorgeous, congrats!

James. love the Pony Tails!! Thanks

My God, those bugs look just horrid! And I thought Bed Bugs and Mealy bugs looked bad!

Laura, your Plants from Logees should do very well..Everything I have from them although started small has never perished on me)

Hobby and Maggy, they are so beautiful! You should see the huge tree they have there..I could stare at it all day.

Steve, maybe you have a good point there. I have always favored starting most of my plants small or cutting verses buying larger ones..Gardenia falls into this catergory. I could never keep a large mature one alive, but a small one always grows bigger and bigger for me with each passing year..

Aah, don’t we all want to start with as a big a plant as we can reasonably purchase. A young plant is always more vigorous just like kids and they soon outgrow their "shoes" before you know it. Plus you have way more control over how quickly it can establish in its new setting.

Mike, I had been promising to send you a dwarf gardenia. I had two cuttings in a pot that were doing well. Recently I noticed they do not look too well - may be I made a mistake. In any case, I will start some new ones later. The mother plant is pushing new flower buds now.

I am so fascinated with bugs though. I just love to look at them under a lens, loupe or microscope. I had been thinking of buying a cheap USB microscope so that I can take pictures too. Such a marvel of nature - tiny creature that do a number on a large plant.