is there a reason your contractor advised against pulling up the floor?

can you lay new wood over what you have? potentially, lots of things need to be reviewed before doing it, but first is why your contractor suggested what he did?

New hardwood over old is tricky at the best of times. The 'best of times' being solid, healthy, fully intact planks. You don't have any of that. And to get the new floor over the old floor = full sanding (down to raw wood) of the old floor = NO SAVINGS whatsoever.

The next option is to lay a NEW subfloor (yah....1/2 plywood or THICKER) over the OLD hardwood (no need to sand). You WILL inherit ALL THE PROBLEMS the old floor offers...but it will be covered up and you will have a decent chance of getting a new hardwood floor down with only moderate problems. They will shim out the new plywood, add some feathering compound or self leveling compound to flatten that baby out....and they you are ready to roll. You will pay someone to take down the doors, trim them and re-hang them. Door jams and baseboards will need to be dealt with...and on and one and on. That is what I mean by "moderate" problems. It won't be cheap...but it should be quite fast.

The biggest question becomes "Why not remove the old floor?" In most cases it is BETTER to remove the old wood, find out what is going on, fix it and then start again. It is slow, painful, expensive work...but often times once it is done, you NEVER have to worry about those problems ever again.

Check to see if your BUDGET is getting in the way. A contractor might suggest the fastest/cheapest trick to stay on-budget rather than do what is considered Best Practices.

If the Victorian is 170 years old, and there is prior water damage due to the radiators, there's a good chance you're dealing with those old 400lb steel radiators which are never fun to move. If it's an apartment, I'm sure there are other tenants using the same lines that your radiator is on... meaning a plumber will most likely need to be brought in to take care of removing the radiators even if you go with pulling the old flooring up. I would have to agree with not pulling the old flooring up though. In my experience with old Victorians (and there's a lot here in the North East) your floors are probably pine, and better off staying where they are. Chances are, there's not a single screw in that whole floor; they're all nails (which is what causes all the movement and squeaking). However, we've done countless jobs on old Victorian homes (even older than the one your in) and we've had great success installing a new subfloor over the old flooring, and then installing new hardwood. The key to making this work (where the experience comes in) is the installation of the new plywood. Adhesive and long screws directly into the beams are going to be what makes the new floor Solid. It's not a terribly painful process (especially if you have a nice high ceiling) and can be done just fine, as long as you figure out the radiators.

Good Luck!

The Couture Floor Company

The importance of a solid subfloor

I would be a little concerned about what could be under the boards around the radiators. Water plus organic material (wood) are two of the main ingredients in a mold problem.

Could you try just taking up a couple boards near the radiators to see what they are like? that should not be a major endeavor and would give you with an idea for how bad taking out all of the flooring would be. That would also let you know if you have any other issues going on with the subfloor around the radiators. Once you start though, you may be opening a nasty can of worms, so be ready for it.

"I live in the second floor apartment of a 170 yr old Victorian. "

Do you own this "apartment" or rent? That will be the most telling on replacement or how it gets approached?

I like jcwood's suggestion. Caution is always needed. If mold was found, what has been done about it? Has it been mitigated/sprayed/cleaned up AT ALL???

So long as the mold has been contained then there are several ways to go about this. More investigation is needed to assess which path to take. If "all roads lead to Rome" that implies there is more than one way to get there. Finding the MOST appropriate way to do it will take a bit of effort.

I personally don't like the hollow sound of a floating floor and gluing or nailing the new floor over a layer of plywood would help strengthen the assembly.

I agree will jfcwood about the sounds that a floating floor makes, you could get insulating padding to go underneath but still. it sounds hallow. not to mention with a floating floor its going to look like crap when they lay it around your radiatiors, since they cannot set the radiator on top of a floating floor, they would have to cut around it and ad some kind of molding around the legs, or just leave the area around it bare with no flooring material.

if this was my house, and i was dealt with the situation you have, i would yank out the old floor, shim the necessary joists to accommodate for any major height differences to flatten the floor, and then lay new 3/4" ply and then lay new solid hardwood. but thats just what i would do.

I'd probably do the same as gregmills unless it's determined that the wall partitions are built on top of the wood floor. It's not the cheap or easy route but it maintains the height of the existing floor and provides a quality outcome that could potentially last another 170 years.

@gregmills ~ wouldn't they have to drop (or cut away) the rafters 3/4" (assuming the original wood floor is 3/4" thick) to maintain the same height as the original floor? keep in mind there is no subfloor under the original wood floor. so you now have to add 3/4" for the new subfloor plus 3/4" for the new wood.

If there is no sub floor, you could use the original floor as your subfloor and put new hardwood over it as you asked in the original post. Either way if you want to install new subfloor/hardwood or hardwood over old floor you are going to have a height differential now assuming the old hardwood is 3/4" thick (plywood + hardwood or old floor + hardwood). That means you are going to have to undercut everything such as doors/trim and have a transition between bedrooms and other areas in either case.

Has anyone suggested ripping out the old flooring and putting in a new nail down floor? Crazy idea but it worked for 170 years.

Count me as reading/comprehension impaired. That's what I thought he was suggesting. Adding a layer of plywood would add to the integrity of the structure if the added height isn't an issue.

Knowing that there is nothing but the beams under the current flooring, (which is very common, we see this all the time) ripping it out could do more damage than it's worth. The integrity of the beams also need to be considered if you're thinking about removing the current floor. There are only so many times you can nail into a beam, then remove the nail (after being there for over 100 years) and then nail/screw into it again before it's not good anymore. Is it an option? Of course it is... Is it the best option? Not if you're not ready for that possible "can of worms" being opened. If there's no mold (which you've stated) then it's not a necessity to remove the old flooring. As I said before, if you have the ceiling height for an added inch and a half (3/4"ply + 3/4" solid hardwood) than that is really your best choice. A 170 year old Victorian with anything other than solid hardwood flooring, is kind of a shame (in my opinion). No other flooring retains or adds to the value of your home like a solid hardwood floor. Undercutting the doorways and trim is a must (we wouldn't do it any other way) but that's not an issue, you'r flooring installers should already figure for this. The decision that needs to be made is about the feet of the radiators. If you're not going to have them removed to install the new flooring, we often use escutcheons around the feet to cover the cut edges of the flooring, which work quite well. They look like this:

The Couture Floor Company

The Importance of a Solid Subfloor

@tech first, if you wanted to maintain the original height of the floor then yes, but what i had proposed was actually adding an additional 3/4" via the new floor. but what i had proposed was only what I would do in that situation, whats best for the OP may be different.

Ah yes, well if you don't mind adding 3/4 to the overall height of your floors and having a 3/4" reduction at your doors then just lay it over the old flooring. Just make sure the old flooring is prepped/leveled before putting in the new. I just had to remove some old subfloor, due to rot and its actually pretty time consuming (of course the guy who installed it had put a nail ever 2" and had smeared the thing in construction adhesive). Like The Couture Floor Company suggested, you might be opening your own can of worms if you try and pull up the old stuff.

Not sure I would recomend adding plywood AND hardwood on top of the old stuff though. While it certainly would be easier to get flat/level, that 1.5" transition at the doors is a lot. 3/4" you might get a away with by putting in a nice threshold, but 1.5" is going to be a lot to try and blend in with the hallway.

We bought a house with a thick pink carpet in the kitchen. It had to go. I bought engineered flooring (Hickory) that was highly rated and had no bevels on the joints. We had the carpet removed and had a 1/4 inch cork underlay (about 3'X1' planks) put on top of the subfloor. Then we used a floating floor that had a tongue and groove edging that was glued together. It has worked perfectly, even under our side by side refrigerator. The kitchen is small, but the floating floor has no hollow sound or problems other than normal wear and tear of a kitchen floor.

Thanks to all of you for your wonderful advice!

To: THE COUTURE FLOOR COMPANY - I shared your posting with my contractor. She threw her arms into the air and yelled, "That's what I've been talking about! We start pulling these old nails from these old joists and we could find ourselves removing chunks of wood and doing major damage! Leave this raggedy floor where it is!"

She also was not a fan of my floating floor idea.

All of my ceilings are 10 ft high so I can certainly spare an inch or so for new floors.

DECISION MADE! THANKS EVERYBODY!!