I want one so that 2 to 3 cooks can function in the kitchen and when one is cleaning up and washing dishes someone else can be rinsing veggies/filling and emptying pots/getting water/filling & emptying coffee pot, etc. This is a limitation in our current kitchen.
It was one of our higher priorities, but unfortunately we weren't able to convey that adequately, apparently. There are a few things included in the design that aren't as high priorities for us.

Get a kohler stages sink instead. However your layout isn't the best either.

Your dishwasher will be in the way of your prepping and you have two blind corners which is lots of wasted space in a small kitchen.

If you want a prep sink, do a peninsula. First move the DW to the side between sink and fridge.

Then DO NOT get a downdraft hood. They are useless. Go look in the appliance forum for what I mean and do a search.

I would do an L like this and put a prep sink on the peninsula. There is 48" between sink and end of peninsula and more like 50" between cooktop and peninsula.

Yeah. We're pretty bummed about our situation. We hired the arch/designer over 3 months ago, the above layout came out 2 months ago, and our concerns haven't been heard since. We're long distance, might be the issue. But still, it's an expensive and disappointing issue.

The butcher block is supposed to be for prepping, but I think it's too small.

Is this room exactly 12x12'? Where does the cased opening lead to at the bottom of the kitchen?

the single door cased opening leads to a hallway connecting to the dogleg stairs up to the bedrooms, out the house from the side/down to the walk out basement, and to the LR. We had hoped to close this off and create an alternate opening, and may still in a future phase. We couldn't due to time and other issues right now.

The room is probably more 12.5" (on main sink side) x 11.5".

Here is the elevation of cooktop and wall oven walls.

Here is the elevation of West wall.

Are the range and the sink in those locations now? I didn't think it was code to have an operable window behind a stove??

Basically, b/c the clean up and prep areas basically collide, I'm hoping to co-opt a different area for prep.

My husband wants the existing large window on the south wall to not be closed off, similar to so, this would remove the upper cabinets and be nicer for a sink:

Proposed change to remove upper cabinets/increase window size, perhaps allow for a better spot for prep sink. Thoughts? We had to live in a hotel for a month with the only kitchen sink the size above.

It is not against code to have a cooktop in front of an operable window where we live. You can find many completed project pics of this here on Houzz. I did initially think the cooktop made more sense on the wall opposite the sink & fridge wall.

Were we to have closed that hallway, I would have wanted the cooktop on that wall and a delicious prep area where the cooktop is now drawn. However, with induction, if the cooktop is not in use you can prep right on top of it with a suitable cutting board.

If you use a 48" sink with two faucets, you can have prep on each side of the sink, and someone can also load and unload the DW while you are prepping and cooking. I'd skip the butcher block, but you could have a mobile work table which could be housed under the counter beside the DW, when not in use.

Pull-out cart--this one slides under the oven in the background:

I wanted a prep sink in our kitchen but could not find a layout that worked. I ended up with the stages 45 with two faucets and loved that set up. (We recently moved.). I found it worked quite well for two people to use the sink at the same time.

What does the butcher block have to do with the layout I suggested?

mamagoose - your layout is almost the exact one I supplied the arch/designer at the beginning with IKEA kitchen planner after posting about this kitchen many months ago. He thought it too choppy and revised, but having that big fridge at the end of the aisle feels closed off. 36" fridges just feel so massive to me. I've never had one this large.

I think if we close off the hallway (need to open a wall in DR to do so) in future, I'll scootch the fridge over to where the doorway or pantry is now.

cpartist - not sure what you mean - butcher block would not be necessary in the layout you suggested. I like it alot! At our stage of the project I'm not sure we could make such a huge change.

I did suggest using more of a galley/peninsula layout at the beginning as an alternative to the U-shape, but arch/designer didn't respond to that suggestion.

also researching your Kohler stages and downdraft alternate suggestions. The appliance ppl said downdrafts work better with inductions. I don't have a preference but would love to figure out a wall/ceiling ducted hood that could work with a window. I didn't even realize things could retract electronically or manually. Hummm.

Researching frantically.

The distance between arms of the U is 7-8 ft which seemed kinda large/inefficient.

Why do you think mamas suggestion will be choppy? In my opinion, putting the fridge to the right of the sink closes off the space. Placing both tall structures--wall ovens and fridge--on that wall that is recessed from the kitchen opening keeps the space open. At least from the perspective of the vestibule. Is the vestibule the primary entrance to the kitchen?

Do you still have your Ikea plan like this? If so, I encourage you to cruise around it in 3d mode. I think you'll see that having no vertical obstructions on the sink or range wall is preferred.

Mama goose photos and suggestions are always amazingly en pointe. <3

The appliance ppl said downdrafts work better with inductions.

Well they must need to meet their Xmas quota because they're full of bull stuff. There is not a stove in the world that works better with downdraft! What horse malarky.

Are you eliminating a dining area to add a powder room?

I like it alot! At our stage of the project I'm not sure we could make such a huge change.

Why not? If you like it better and it works better, wouldn't that be the way to go?

And frankly if your designer hasn't been listening to you, sounds like it's time to find a new designer. Remember you're paying them to do what works best for you.

(Sorry it's the Nu Yawkah in me.)

Sorry about your architect frustrations. I can empathize. We had to terminate an architect contract two years ago.

Oh sorry to see construction has started. I guess you're now stuck with his kitchen. If so, get the Kohler stages and a real vent hood.

I like Mama's plan except there would be no landing space next to the fridge.

cpartist, no kidding. I'm midwestern and in situations like this it poses a problem.

Benjesbride, thanks for the empathy. The eat-in DR is out of frame - it's 12x12 below the powder connected by 5' wide cased opening. We love it and use it for all meals.

This is our 2nd pro on this project. The first designer was super talented but we didn't really know what we wanted (our fault). She billed by the hour. The architect was so decided and certain how things should go, and lovely work, so we hired.

We since determined that the wall separating the two areas can come down, non-load bearing. Also, architect had a great idea to simply shift the cased openings to the left to make room for the 3'x7.5' powder. No bath on main floor currently.

I drafted up a design (below - gave to architect in August). This was working with the existing openings, except the sink window which doesn't yet exist - it's the old rear stoop door.

Tried to do a peninsula design with Kitchen Planner & almost died of old age. I'm really visual so the elevations were critical. Agree no landing space, which is why I thought something had to be in the middle.

Why is this so stressful? There are entire countries where people would kill just to have a working kitchen with the very basics.

I'll throw in a couple options. Wolf 36" induction range will let you delete the wall ovens and still have a 36" induction cooktop. This can help cut down on some boxy-ness with only the frig left.

A downdraft exhaust will always be less efficient than an overhead hood but this is about the most efficient of the downdrafts.Best D49M Downdraft Ventilation

Technically... I think the NKBA guideline is that there is a landing space 48" from the center of the fridge, so the counter to the left of the cooktop qualifies as fridge landing space. I think.

dan, BEST hq'd in my home state. Had no idea. Now wondering if it even fits behind a 21" deep induction. I asked a local appliance guy about a WOLF. I think it's 10-12K.

That 10k is before negotiating. You'd be surprised how often a 'floor model' becomes available. You just need to talk to more suppliers until you get a price you can work with to get the deal done. My Miele induction range is $7k with supposedly only a minor builder discount available on Miele. I found one 'new but not installed' for $5300 full warranty delivered. And you aren't buying those two ovens. You get more counter space without them.

The downdraft will totally fit behind a 21" cooktop if you design the counter depth for it. AJ Madison has the install pdf for the dimension info you need. It's built to fit a standard counter, but.....A 1 or 2" deeper than 24" counter doesn't violate any design laws. In my kitchen the 29" counters make work areas many times more enjoyable to use. It's not as easy in a 'U' design, but in yours the counter could just be widened along the back wall. If you want two ovens many like the second to be a Combi-Steam oven like Miele has. It gets plumbed in. People who have one don't use a micro. Miele Combi-Steam Oven They have a long thread in Appliances.

"Hi team, please help! I've been asking our designer to fit in a small
prep sink with no response, and rough-in plumbing starts in a couple of
days. Where would you put one?"

"when one is cleaning up and washing dishes someone else can be rinsing
veggies/filling and emptying pots/getting water/filling & emptying
coffee pot, etc."

So it's not really a "prep sink" you want, but a water source big enough to fill small pots (a retractable nozzle would make it possible to fill larger things).

I would call the designer and say halt the project until we get an answer to this question: "Is there any reason we can't have a small sink?"

In the plan I posted, would the inclusion of a couple of pull-out
cutting boards help with the fridge landing? I suggest two, for
symmetry, and if you aren't using a corner susan between the sink and
cooktop, a trash pull-out could be housed below (pic to follow):

We have a small kitchen also, but we put in a very small narrow second sink (9" wide x 16" deep). It's big enough to wash vegetables, etc, and to drain pots...it is located right beside the stove and has been very useful. It makes it much easier for two people to work together in a small kitchen, and we have often said to each other how much we really like having that little sink.

if we had more space, I'd make it larger, but still, it works fine as is. Previously, I had only one sink and it was a 1 1/2 bowl sink....hated it. I used the smaller 10" square sink side to was dishes and drain pots...the larger side had a dish rack sitting in it (always) for dishes to drip dry. I figured if I could use a 10" x 10" sink for all my main sink needs for 30 years, then I could handle a 9" x 16" sink for washing veggies and draining pots, LOL.

If you go with a small second sink, I would definitely recommend a faucet with a pullout spout!

Glancing through this thread, it seems that you are stuck with the cooktop under the window in which case you should definitely deepen your counters to fit the downdraft ventilation. Better still to have overhead island style hood ventilation but not sure how that would look with the window. You have space for the deeper counters and you will LOVE having them by your cooktop, whether or not you have the downdraft ventilation. If you were to have uppers on that wall, deepening them also (ie 15" deep uppers with 30" deep bottoms or 14" uppers with 28" bottoms) will allow you to fit larger items as well.

ditto what others have said about the Stages or another LARGE single sink with two faucets rather than a separate prep sink. I have that in my small kitchen and we have three people prepping sometimes, without having to wait for a faucet. One faucet is on a tapmaster which I also LOVE. Here is a thread to how I use it and all that you can pack in under and around it.

Kitchen cockpit- Stages 45 sink

ps. mammagoose's ideas ARE brilliant.

Also, we currently have 24" wide double ovens from the 1970s or 80s, one shorter than the other. We love them. Never needed bigger - fits large turkey. If there was a pullout landing I wonder if we could just move them over to the pantry, switch the fridge over to opposite the sink as Mamagoose shows, and then have room for the Kohler 45/a separate dishwasher+dishes area as mamagoose shows.

The wall ovens were always preferable but optional, as was a 36" wide fridge as opposed to, say, a 31" wide that is taller. We lived in Europe for years and the farmers market & grocery store are just blocks away, so we don't need a huge fridge.

"The wall ovens were always preferable but optional, as was a 36" wide fridge as opposed to, say, a 31" wide that is taller."

Regarding the refrigerator...stick with 36" wide by 70" to 72" tall. Manufacturers in/for the US are standardizing on 36"W x 70" to 72" tall refrigerators as their minimum size offering. Yes, you may find narrower ones here and there, but they're usually low-end of the mainstream refrigerators or very high end manufacturers (e.g., Liebherr).

So, plan for this size space for your refrigerator: 38.5" wide x 72" tall.

• Width: 36" wide + 1.5" for end panels (3/4" on each side) + 1" for air clearance and wiggle room = 38.5"
• Height: 72" tall

This way, you won't have to either search far and wide for a smaller refrigerator or pay $$$$ for a high-end refrigerator. Periodically over the years we've had people come to either here on the Kitchens forum or the Appliances forum frantically looking for a refrigerator to fit a small space (width and/or height).

If it's a built-in, you don't have to accommodate the end panels b/c a built-in does not need end panels to hide the sides of the refrigerator. Counter-depth and standard-depth do need the end panels.

And don't forget a 24" deep cabinet over the refrigerator (I can't tell for certain from the drawing if it's 24" deep, so I thought I'd mention it!)

Prep sink...if you go with a small prep sink, I strongly recommend a pull down faucet, not a pull out or standard faucet. If you look at these types of faucets, you will see that a pull down does not get in the way of using the sink b/c it's high above the sink. Pullouts and standard faucets, OTOH, are close to the top of the sink and stick out into the sink, taking away from work room. I'm speaking from experience - I put a pullout on my 17-3/4" x 17-3/4" prep sink and it gets in the way when I try to work in the sink. Hmmm...that may be one of the reasons why I think my sink is too small. (There's also limited room inside the sink if I want to work with food inside the sink - room for hands + knife or other prep tool + food.)

Buehl, thanks. Does your pullout faucet swivel out of the way of your sink?

Fisher & Paykel, Samsung, Summit etc. have reasonable decent quality 28-31" fridges. I'll go look at some in person tomorrow, hopefully. Otherwise, I'm fine conforming to the 36" wide. We have very old 1990s fridges that are 30" wide. Used to be the standard it seems, though not counter depth.

The saga continues. After cashing our advance check for the first month of construction, the architect quit days later.

Framing, plumbing, hvac, & electrical finished per his design. Guess what?! His measurements were 13" off in a length of 150." The cabinet guy couldn't execute the design.

The good news is that we were forced to move the dishwasher to the other side of the sink. The bad news is we're out $$$$ in arch/design fees for a defunct plan. And untold expenses redoing the systems if/as needed. When you guys could have designed all this for free! :)

After 5 years of hopes and dreams, this is a nightmare. Thanks for listening, fellow GardenWeb goers.

Oh boy, how frustrating. I'm so sorry. Would you like to try reposting your picture? It is not showing up, unfortunately.

I've noticed the posting glitch a couple of times, yesterday and today.

I'm sorry about the kitchen nightmare--an all too familiar story.

Is the half bath the only one on this level?

Yes, only bath at this level. No other place to fit one due to stairs, doors, windows, etc.