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nanabeth

Baking question...

9 years ago

The one cookie my kids insist on for the holidays is date pinwheels. I have made these for years with no problem until last year and again this year. The dough is just 1/2 cup each of both brown and granulated sugar creamed with 1/2 cup butter. Then one egg and 1/2 tsp vanilla is added and dough is chilled for later rolling out and adding the date filling. My problem is the dough is so fragile it hardly holds together and seems like it could use more liquid. The recipe is an old one from my Better Homes cookbook. The egg size is not specified, but I always use a large. I also have my butter at room temperature, but not mushy. Any suggestions?

Comments (31)

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just taking a stab at it -

    Brown sugar comes in both "light brown" and "dark brown". Are you using the same type as before?

    Butters' water and fat content vary depending on the manufacturer. Are you using the same brand of butter? Have you tried using a higher-fat content butter such as Président or Kerrygold? I am assuming you are using unsalted butter regardless.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked friedajune
  • 9 years ago

    Flour? Martha Stewart has a recipe for fig pinwheels, 2.5 cups flour, ½ teaspoon baking soda; 1 cup cutter softened; ½ cup granulated sugar and ½ cup packed light brown sugar; 2 eggs. I haven't tried this one specifically but her cookie recipes are usually very good.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked H B
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  • 9 years ago

    No flour?

    lizbeth-gardener thanked ci_lantro
  • 9 years ago

    I too think there ought to be flour, though there are some cookies where there is none. I just can't imagine being able to roll up a butter/sugar mixture.

    This is also where you can see a big difference between cane sugar and beet sugar--there's something like a 3% difference, but it shows up in baking. Beet sugar is dry and crumbly.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked plllog
  • 9 years ago

    Sorry! Yes, it has flour. After the sugar, butter, egg and vanilla, the dry ingredients are added. Two cups sifted flour, 1/2 tsp. baking soda and 1/2 tsp. salt. Then the dough is chilled, Then rolled out and date filling is spread on and then rolled jelly roll style, chilled and later sliced and baked.

  • 9 years ago

    I don't always buy the same brand of butter and the brown sugar isn't specified. I used light brown. I was tempted to add another egg when the consistency of the dough hardly held together.

  • 9 years ago

    Have you switched brands of sugar? I agree with plllog... you should make sure you're using cane sugars.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked party_music50
  • 9 years ago

    I would add a little water...a tablespoon or so and see it that helps. Depending on the flour and the time of year (humidity), I've noticed that, when baking bread, sometimes you just need more liquid.

    Another thing you might try is to let the dough warm up just a bit so it's more pliable.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked ci_lantro
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    party_music: That's possible. Do all of you stick with just one brand of sugars and butter? I don't always shop at the same store and sometimes pick up one or another. Also, does your bag of sugar actually say whether it's beet or cane sugar? I can't answer on my granulated as it is in my canister. I do always make sure my butter is AA rated and doesn't have any extra ingredients added. Do I really need to buy President or Kerrygold for cookies? Will I notice a difference in the finished product?

  • 9 years ago

    I always buy cane sugar. If the bag does not say it is cane sugar, then it is most likely beet. I would not buy President or Kerrygold for cookies. For my baking butter I only purchase Land o Lakes or Challenge, never the generic ones. It goes on sale here before Thanksgiving for $2/lb (the lowest price I have seen here) and I buy 25-30 lb at once and freeze it. I would probably try an extra egg but it could be a bit of a hit or miss process.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked tishtoshnm Zone 6/NM
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, if it doesn't say "cane" on the bag, it's almost sure to be beet, or some kind of mixture. I would bet that it's your problem. PM's extra water might work, but I wouldn't waste any other ingredients on it.

    This is a standard pinwheel cookie (with the missing flour. :) ), not something delicate that requires fancy butter. Additionally, if the greater amount of water in the butter were the issue it would be too gooey, not crumbly. I think name brand butter, like Tishtoshnm mentioned, will give you more consistency than off brand discount butter, but even that will conform to the standards for percentages of components.

    I really think it might be the sugar. I wish Grainlady were here--she'd know for sure. C&H and Domino are reliable names in cane sugar, but house brand that says "cane" should be okay. I think they stint on the packaging and brand name, but that the sugar is the same sugar, probably from one of the name sugar processors. Since brown sugar is a combination of white sugar and molasses, however, there is more variation there, so maybe after a fail, it would be worth buying C&H or Domino.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked plllog
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kerrygold and President butters are fine products, but no, of course you don't need imported butter to bake a good cookie.

    Your old recipe is a trusty one. I would take a few steps back and try to figure out what you might've done differently, if anything.

    I would start by rolling the dough between two sheets of parchment paper, or plastic wrap. Chill cookie dough overnight. The dough will benefit even more if chilled and allowed to rest over several days. This gives the ingredients, e.g. eggs and butter, enough time to hydrate the flour, and result in a dough that is easier to work with.

    Once the dough has rested, remove from the fridge and let it soften slightly at room temperature, until just pliable (but don't let it get warm). If this happens, put dough back in the fridge 15-20 minutes to chill.

    If you've tried all these methods and the dough is still crumbly, I would add a bit of water, by spraying it (with a fine mist spray bottle) onto the rolled out dough .*

    Let it rest until water is absorbed, and apply the filling.

    Use the bottom parchment sheet to support the dough as you roll it.

    * Do not pour water onto the dough, or you'll have to knead it in, which will overwork the dough. A fine mist spray of water will give you better control.

    Sol.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked Solsthumper
  • 9 years ago

    Sometimes the ingredients in my shortbread recipe make a dryer dough than other times. Sort of like your problem. I just add a bit of water at a time until it's the consistency I want.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked User
  • 9 years ago

    I do adjust for humidity, etc., but that was Ci_lantro who said it. :)

    Sol's directions are good, but I worry that it's not sufficient. It wasn't so long ago that I tried to work with some brown beet sugar, and there was no improving it. At all. I would much rather be sure of the dough than potentially waste the filling ingredients.

  • 9 years ago

    Sol, except for the dough going into refrigerator formed in a patty, I did as you suggested. No parchment for rolling, but did use a Silpat. I knew something was wrong before I chilled it by the crumbliness when I mixed the wet with the dry. I usually use Land of Lakes butter, but sometimes get the butter made by in state dairies when on sale. Good to know about the water misting, too. I do wonder if it was the white sugar as this last bag seems really different for sugar, very whispy, not as heavy and fine as normal. I will certainly pay attention to cane and beet labeling in the future.

    Thanks to all for your suggestions.

  • 9 years ago

    I am not really an expert on baking or cooking, but I will share what my niece told me with my Candy Cane Cookies. Mom and I always fought with making them. They would crumble and be very fragile. My niece was taught by her grandmother to cook and bake by feel. She told me to add 1 egg WHITE to the dough. In fact, I took the dough to our family baking day for her to help me with! That is when she looked at it and felt it and said it was as she had thought when we talked about it. She said the egg white wouldn't change anything but the texture of the dough, with no other ingredients to add, like more flour, if you added the whole egg. I did as suggested this year, and my candy cane cookies came out great, with no issues making them, taking them from the cookie sheet, or packing up and bringing them home. I hope you can figure out what the issue is, and that they come out as good as they have in the past.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked tami_ohio
  • 9 years ago

    Thanks, Tami.

  • 9 years ago

    The amount of flour may be the problem. I see it's one of those nice old recipes that calls for sifted flour. That's a more exact way to measure; with newer recipes you have to hope the book tells you if it means "stir-and-scoop" or "gently spoon into the measure."

    Did you sift the flour? If not, there's your answer. The dough is crumbly because it has too much flour.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked cloudy_christine
  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here is my date pinwheel cooky recipe is it like yours?

    Date Pinwheel Cookies

    Filling

    1 pound pitted dates, cut up

    1/2 cup brown sugar

    1/2 cup water

    Combine the top 3 ingredients and cook, stirring constantly until thick Remove from heat and cool.

    Cookie Part

    1/2 cup butter

    1/2 cup brown sugar

    1/2 cup white sugar

    1 egg

    1/2 teaspoon vanilla

    2 cups flour

    1/2 teaspoon baking soda

    1/2 teaspoon salt

    Cream the shortening and the sugars. Add the egg and beat well. Add
    the vanilla. Sift together the dry ingredients, add to the creamed
    mixture, stirring until smooth. Chill. Divide the dough in half on
    lightly floured surface, roll one part in a rectangle, about 1/4 inch
    thick.

    Combine the date mixture with 1 cup of nuts and spread half of the
    mixture on the dough. Roll as for a jelly roll. Repeat with the rest
    of the dough. Wrap dough in foil and freeze. When ready to bake,
    unwrap and let thaw a bit. Slice and bake on lightly greased sheet in
    hot oven, 400 degree oven for 8 to 10 minutes. Bakes about 7 dozen
    cookies.

    I have had this recipe over 60 years. If you make them I hope you enjoy them.

    Sue

    lizbeth-gardener thanked Marilyn Sue
  • 9 years ago

    CC: Yes, I did sift the flour. I happened to be getting something out of my pantry today and noticed that I had an extra bag of sugar and it came from Aldi's and does not say cane sugar, so I'm guessing it was the sugar. I need to make another batch if I have time, so may solve the mystery.

    Sue: Your recipe is almost the same. Mine has sifted flour and my filling part uses white sugar, rather than brown and just 1/2 cup walnuts. Mine also doesn't say anything about freezing, just chilling in refrigerator and baking, but I'm sure that would work and be a nice idea to have for spur of the moment needs. Is your recipe from a BHG cookbook?

  • 9 years ago

    No, Lizbeth, my recipe is from a very old Westinghouse, Betty Furness Cookbook. I was married in Dec. of 1953 and in January we went looking for a few pieces of furniture at a furniture store. We were given this cookbook as a wedding gift or for buying some furniture, not sure now which it was. It has been a good cook book all of these years. Since that time I have found two more at garage sales and have given those to two of my daughters. I hope your cookies turn out well.

    Sue

  • 9 years ago

    I was just re-reading this. Does your recipe say 2 cups sifted flour, or does it say 2 cups flour, sifted? I have one recipe that mom made , Mexican Tea Cakes, that we always called nut balls, that I have to sift the flour BEFORE I measure it because the dough is too crumbly. I am wondering if that might be the problem.

  • 9 years ago

    Oh, and I use Aldi sugar all the time now. Don't have any problem baking with it, so I don't think the sugar is a problem. We didn't have Aldi when I made the Mexican tea cakes last time so sugar wasn't an issue then. Mom always sifted before measuring for those also.

  • 9 years ago

    The Aldi's sugars sold here are not cane sugars -- I tried their brown sugar with a T&T toffee recipe and it was the first time it ever failed on me. The non-cane brown sugar was the only difference, so I won't use it for any baking or candy making anymore.

  • 9 years ago

    It says "2 cups sifted flour". I sift the flour onto waxed paper and then carefully scoop with a spoon into my measuring cup. I don't believe that is the issue.

    I did pick up a good supply of C&H cane sugar in both light brown, dark brown and granulated. My flour is not old and is a AP name brand (Gold medal, Pillsbury, etc.) If I can eke out the time, I will be doing another batch in the next day or two and will come back and report results. Now I'm just trying to figure out what to do with my opened almost 4# of Aldi white sugar. We don't use sugar much except for baking.

  • 9 years ago

    It should be fine in drinks, adding a spoon of sugar to something acidic, etc. You can save your cane sugar for baking, and use up the rest slowly for any other sweetening needs. Or give it away.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked plllog
  • 9 years ago

    OK, I went back and corrected myself to give Cilantro that credit.


    Thanks, Plllog.

    Lizbeth, do you make jam? Or candy? I used Big Chief for fudge for years and it was fine. I'd still use it except for that pesky GMO issue...

    Annie

    lizbeth-gardener thanked annie1992
  • 9 years ago

    Over the years, grocery eggs seem to have gotten smaller. I started measureing out my raw egg in grams, and sometimes it'll take 1 1/3 egges (cracked, no shell), etc to make it the right "weight" for the perfect outcome. It may be worth experimenting with.

    lizbeth-gardener thanked Renee Texas
  • 9 years ago

    Pillog: We don't use sugar in drinks, but the give away sounds good.

    Annie: I used to make both, but rarely anymore. Good to know what it works well for though.

    Renee: Interesting point! I notice that quite often from one carton of eggs to the next. Is there a standard measurement for what an egg is supposed to weigh when a recipe calls for a certain size?

  • 9 years ago

    I did make a second batch of the date pinwheels with C&H sugar (chilled overnight) and they were noticeably better at holding together. That was evident while still in the bowl. I also noticed a difference in the filling, which had seemed too thick previously. That said, the dough was still too rich. In the past I didn't have breaks in the dough where the filling peeks thru. The cookies are delicious, they just aren't perfect! I think I'll need to play with more of the ideas above. I did use Sol's spray bottle idea and seemed to help some, but didn't have notes nearby, so didn't let it rest after spraying.

    I appreciate the help all of you have so freely given. I do now know more than I did before about sugar and butter. It's so nice to know I can get an answer for my cooking/baking questions so quickly and without ever leaving home! Thank You!

    Liz