Thanks Gardengal. Although you are totally right... this post belongs here in this forum... it's funny that there are so many more replies in the Antique Rose forum! That forum is pretty amazing!!! :-)

Thanks again for your recommendations!

Cori Ann, rose growers seem to be almost fanatical in their beliefs and activity on those forums is always brisk :-) But it also tends to have a lot of almost mystical, word of mouth practices or recommendations that have no horticultural or scientific substantiation. So it' a bit of a weeding out the wheat from the chaff situation :-)

And west coast posters to this forum are rare so you will find that most responses are generated late at night or very early for west coast time!!

I have no real idea how closely CERTIFIED physical therapists must toe the industry standard. My daughter is a registered dietitian. She gave up a good job in a heart hospital. One thing that bothered her was the standard line on healthy diets which she said was wrong...and I believe her.

Hmm... not sure exactly what you mean Wayne. The industry standard for education is this: Physical Therapists must have a doctorate and licensure, the process is much like medical doctors. Registered dietitians have a bachelors as well as licensure, the process is similar to nursing.

In my opinion, western society's understanding of nutrition is very "behind the times" and affected too much by media and biased research, so if that is what you're referring to, I agree.

But rehabilitative science and research is very different from nutrition science and research.

I hope your daughter finds a place where she feels she can flourish.

Yes, you got my gist...that nutrition dogma in the 'system' is very behind the times and is biased to monied interests.

I am currently reading in an old book on sustainable farming by Cyril Hopkins...1910. I know that is archaic in how things are done today but it does deal with chemical things in plant growth!

Now as far as nutrition and chemicals go in the body's health, I like Jon Barrons writings. He is a chemist. You can read a host of articles that have an end soon....not a text book.

https://jonbarron.org/natural-health/topics-alternative-remedies-treatments-prevention

When you say "the chemistry of gardening" do you mean:

1. Soil chemistry?
2. Plant chemistry?
3. Something else?

You'll get more out of it if you brush up on chemistry and biochemistry first, because soil science is hard-core. Statistics, too, because deciding if something is working usually means analysing a pile of data.

****

The drawback to old books is that they might have known something "worked", but they were not nearly as good at figuring out how and why it worked as now because they didn't have the tools and techniques. Sometimes their explanations of why it works are totally wrong, sometimes partly wrong and sometimes accurate.

EXAMPLE from medicine: it's been known since the 1930s or so that massive doses of antigens screws up the immune system. It wasn't until the past few years that the tools for figuring out what was going on at the cell level were available.

Sometimes something was thought to work when it didn't - poor test design, poor statistics, or wishful thinking can clog up things.

Thanks lazy gardens. I'm just thinking any sort of book that focuses on any part of the chemistry of gardening. The idea is to just refresh my memory before this next term by taking principles and applying them in an area I enjoy. Based on recommendations, I think I compiled a good group of books that should help here (for anyone else interested)... http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4326906/book-recommendation-for-the-chemistry-of-rose-gardening

Soil science is hardcore, you're right. But so are all premed courses. ;) I wouldn't say soil science is more hardcore. Statistics definitely helps, you're right. Stats, Trig, Chem, Biochem, Physics, etc... they are all premed prereqs. Already took em over 10 years ago (dare I say 20 years ago), but have to take them again due to recency requirements. I feel pretty "brushed up." ;)

Definitely don't need any additional "brushing up." LOL.

Just trying to use some wisdom (best thing about being the oldest in classes) to take something I enjoy and learn a little that way... to create more learning instead of just rote memorization.

Chemistry can be extremely boring, to someone like me that's more hands on and more biology/physiology minded. Unless I'm applying it to something that has more personal importance and meaning.

I don't remember how far this goes into chemistry, might be more biochemistry, but it definitely has science about plants. It is written by a professor at Washington State.

https://www.amazon.com/How-Plants-Work-Science-Gardeners/dp/160469338X

That book ^^^^ was recommended by the Facebook group on food and farming ...

As was this one by a long-time soil scientist.

https://www.amazon.com/Improving-Your-Soil-Practical-Management/dp/1770852263

Thank you so much for the recommendations! I will check those 2 out next.

So far I have bought 4 books that go into the chemistry of gardening and I am really enjoying all of them! It's much more fun to rememorize the periodic table when I can actually imagine what the different elements can do in the garden!

Heres the 4 books I have bought so far, if anyone is interested...

Botany for Gardeners, 3rd Edition (Science for Gardeners)

Chemistry in the Garden: RSC

Western Fertilizer Handbook

Secrets to Great Soil (Storey's Gardening Skills Illustrated)

and

The Chemistry of Soils - Including Information on Acidity, Nitrification, Lime Requirements and Many Other Aspects of Soil Chemistry

:)

addall.com/used  is a great place to buy used books, as in Amazon.

Cori Ann, that text recommended by socalgal is authored by the same person that complied the Horticultural Myths referred to in your other thread. I have met Ms. Chalker-Scott (she works locally) and she is an incredibly knowledgeable individual with a true passion for helping the hobby gardener. Everything she writes is worth review and consideration even if one doesn't necessarily agree with her 100%.

jeff gilman. he's written a couple books that deal with applied science behind some of the age old adage type of garden advice.

otherwise, trying to find books dealing with gardening science that are a) not texts and b) not propaganda of some form? that's a hard question to answer simply.

I have a textook from my college days on botany. despite bring a college text, even if it's a freshman level book, it's about as accessible as you're going to find and still be reliably authoratative.

soils are somewhat different. to truly understand soils, as mentioned above, that's some hard core, multiple discipline, advanced stuff. for instance, the intro to soils course I had in college had a prerequisite of three chemistry courses, one of them organic chem.

long way of saying, easily accessible, non-textbook and science based? who you ask will determine that answer, and no two groups will agree. in fact, certain answers will meet with robust opposition, and again, that can change with who the audience is.

Thanks Wayne. Great points. The multi discipline aspect is what I believe helps me truly understand content in context as I'm returning to college. Which is important when learning in your 40s, at least in my opinion.

This is a funny article I identify with A LOT on organic chem.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/03/education/edlife/how-to-get-an-a-in-organic-chemistry.html

The main diffference between the author of the article and me is that I already took 2 years of chem/ochem, but if I wanna be Dr Cori I have to take them again because it was decades ago. Sometimes I can't believe I am doing all of these prereqs again. I gotta make it interesting!

Soil science and botany are hardcore... but also helpful and supplemental when compared to human biochemistry, human anatomy and physiology. At least for me. It is an area that allows me the chance to learn principles without a human life and human health hanging in the balance. It's relaxing. I'm sure I'm an oddity.

As an example.... This year I decided I wanted to learn grafting techniques and I believe that will help me with cadaver dissecting techniques. As well as give me a pretty cool rose garden. I'm getting more into soil chemistry and I believe that will help me with Ochem, as well as pharmacology. It will also help my organic garden flourish. I'm getting more into permaculture and I believe that will help me with a well rounded and more intuitive understanding of holistic human health, as well as a sustainable garden.

Plus I just find it enjoyable. I would much rather conduct my own "experiments" in my garden than in a lab at school with a bunch of kids who are my own kids ages. And yet... there I am. ;)

But I'm also conducting my own "extra credit" experiments in my garden and I enjoy it. :)

To me, the chemistry of soil is pretty basic. I have a school textbook I picked up at Goodwill about soils. I have also used wikipedia to learn about soil horizons. Otherwise, I would recommend Teaming with Microbes for the Biology of gardening.

My observations are, you can have an influence on some of the chemistry that's involved by using greensand or other mineral amendments to introduce the needed trace elements. Otherwise what a person should be doing is tending to the biology of the soil. It is wonderfully complex.

Soil pH cannot be changed much but it turns out that it is far more important to change the buffering (a.k.a. CEC) of the soil to enable uptake of metals. That is done organically.

i'm going to provide a piece of advice that just might be specific for this particular question from this particular person.

if you are indeed looking to explore some of the science behind the how's and why of gardening, get ahold of of some of gilman's books (that's not very far out there) and get a hold of some of jerry baker's books.

to anyone that i've talked to that would remotely consider themselves serious minded gardeners, baker is just about the antithesis of what you'd want, so no one try to say just how far out there he is...there's controversial, off the deep end, and then there is baker, in a league of his own.

however, to someone who wants to conduct some of their own experiments, taking his concoctions and applying some critical analysis, just might be part of what you seek.

by the way, if I had known how important chemistry was going to be in soils, i'd have paid more attention the first time.

Sam on the organic roses also recommends Teaming with Microbes. Looks like a good one.

"Teaming with Microbes" is worth reading for the first section, which describes all the different life forms in the soil. The second half of the book seems to be all about ever more elaborate recipes for "bacterially dominated" and "fungally dominated" composts and compost teas, at which point I stopped paying attention. The OP's brief was books on chemistry, though, and "Teaming with Microbes" is more about biology - not that the two topics are really separate, of course.