Drainage company did job - soil is not hardening/muddy

7 years ago

In October, I had a drainage company come in to correct a drainage issue in my backyard. I had broken up patio/concrete that was collecting water underneath it and undermining the foundation of the house. This was $7000 worth of work. Removing concrete, putting in pipes and drainage ditch, having it drain to the street, new sump pump etc.

After they took up the concrete and put down soil and grass seed, the area is still very very soft. What is making it worse is the excessive rain we've had at the end of oct and all of November. (Western NY region). They did not state if there was anything mixed in with the soil. However it was stated that this dept was experienced in this work (landscaping area).

My question is, when will this area harden. attached are photos of it. The tarp you see I put down so that the dog wouldn't sink into the mud. Underneath the tarp are pieces of wood so that it won't sink when you walk on it.

Should I wait until spring to see if this improves?

Are there any questions I should be asking the company?

I've already asked them why there is still puddles (that weren't there before). Manager stated "Well sometimes we have to go back in and add more) he did not say if that would be an additional cost to me.

just a note, I've already had a few words with them on another issue - took down awning that they normally don't do and siding blew off my house. Told after signing the contract that the sales man drew up "well we don't normally remove items from houses. Sales man put that in as a favor." I asked "To cinch the deal?" I could have had someone come in and remove that if they were not able to do it. It would not have broken the deal.

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Yardvaark

7 years ago

Though not the only one, I'm one of the one's that usually helps people with drainage issues here, if they can be helped. The only way that help can be given is by first understanding the problem and then by understanding the conditions. While that sounds easy, it's usually quite difficult to get someone who doesn't understand all the particulars of drainage, to convey that information. You say you've had a lot of work done, but we don't know the specifics of it. We don't know the conditions. The pictures are of a wet spot, but they don't tell us anything about why it's wet or how it got that way and they don't help us to see how it might be resolved. In order to get help here, you'd basically need to illustrate (in pictures) the totality of the site and the totality of the project in such a way the people could see all the way from where water enters the site to where it leaves the site, in a continuous, connected fashion. And you'd need to fill in all the missing information with accurate, verbal explanations. It could be overwhelming for you, or possibly overwhelming to the people trying to understand it. Or maybe it wouldn't be so difficult. There's just not a way to speculate accurately until the information is seen.

You say that you've had lot of rain during November, which is just ending. Does your sump pump seem to be functioning fine? I would wait until a couple weeks of dry weather pass and then reassess the moisture conditions of the troubled area. If it begins to look like it's drying out to a normal state, then you probably don't have anything to worry about. If it continues to stay too wet after a couple of weeks, then you might want to pursue making it understandable on this thread.

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Comments (9)

nandina
7 years ago
Chris, I am very familiar with the topography and soils of Western New York. A few questions which may aid in understanding your situation.

1. New construction? Or age of the house? Are you the first owner? If so, for how long or when did you purchase the house? The new sump pump was installed in your cellar? How often does the sump pump 'kick on'? Any sign of water seeping through cellar walls? Have cellar walls been waterproofed? You mention 'pipes', where were they installed? At what depth were the pipes dug into the ground? Do you possibly know of the contractor who built the house?

Many questions. Sorry. Your answers will be helpful.
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Chris K
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi nandina Thank you!

1. New construction? Or age of the house?
Built in 1964

Are you the first owner?
No. Many owners since then and no one has really done any work on the house up until this point. Hindsight - should never have bought the house with this much work and problems.

If so, for how long or when did you purchase the house?
Purchased in June 28 1987

The new sump pump was installed in your cellar?
Yes in the basement. the pipe was re-routed because it was going into the sanitary sewer and we would not be able to sell the house. So the pipe from the sump pump which went a short distance is going a longer distance to the backyard of the house. So that would be the width of the house.

How often does the sump pump 'kick on'?
Noticed only when it's raining or raining heavy. It probably does kick on randomly when needed. Tonight, heavy rains so it seems to be going on around every 5-7 minutes.

Any sign of water seeping through cellar walls?
Only a leak in one corner (that went behind the washer to the drain).
That is gone now that the concrete in the back has been pulled up and the pipes were laid.

Have cellar walls been waterproofed?
Don't think so. No cracks in the walls either.

You mention 'pipes', where were they installed?
From the gutter on the corner of the house in the backyard. See the attached photos.
Going the duration of where the porch was - out to the side of the house and then to the drainage sewer/street.

At what depth were the pipes dug into the ground?
Attached are photos. I would have to look at the contract - I thought it was 4 feet down but now I look at the photos, it doesn't look like that much.

Do you possibly know of the contractor who built the house?
Could be Ryan Homes in western NY - unsure of that. We call it "the house that jack built" because of the construction of the house. It's not a well built house. Cheap. Pre-Fab.
If you hang a heavy picture up, the wall could fall down (Plaster board)
Chris K
Original Author
7 years ago
Hi Yardvaark thanks so much.

Attached is the concrete before the work was done. Each year, after the snow and ice, the concrete would get worse. The ramp was our only way of knowing how much it moved as it would squeak.

We have three neighbors where the water is being directed towards our yard (we are at the bottom of an incline). Neighbors to the left, put in their own drain tiles and pointed them at our house. Neighbor to the right did the same thing but in the back of his yard.

Per the contractor, we will be reporting both when we move which should be next year. Neither one got town permission and they should not be pointing the water towards us.

I just don't want to go into panic mode with the contractor if I need to give this some more time.

Tonight I went out to look at the side of the house where the pipes went towards the sewer and street. It looks like it was running correctly (a lot of water going into the street) but the where they put the pipes in is puddling (still muddy and grass still needs to grow)
PRO
Yardvaark
7 years ago
"... put in their own drain tiles and pointed them at our house. Neighbor to the right did the same thing but in the back of his yard."

A statement like that needs clarification because we can't see what you're talking about. You need to show in pictures that are of wide enough view (no close-ups!) to show how it relates to your property/house, and close enough to show the specific thing.

What is it that you are "reporting" to the town officials and why are you waiting until next year?

I take it that the street is the low point relative to your yard ...? If your's is the lowest yard, and surface water from the neighbors is draining through your property, then surface grading will be important for carrying water away. (You haven't really showed/told us anything about this.)

We all live and learn. One of the first houses I owned was a grading/drainage disaster and I resolved never to buy a house with those kinds of problems again. It was an expensive headache!
Chris K
Original Author
7 years ago
What is it that you are "reporting" to the town officials and why are you waiting until next year?

We are planning to move next year. This house was purchased on the grounds of my unemployed father who wanted to get closer to work - a place he hardly worked. My father died in April. My mother is 80 and wants no part of this POS house that my father did not contribute to purchasing. (deed means nothing). The concrete had to be torn up as that would not pass inspection.

Neighbors: You cannot dig in the yard without notifying the utilities.
You can also not put pipes in and point it towards the neighbors to move your water onto someone else's property. It needs to go to the street. That is per the town and verified by the contractors. I have pictures of them digging and pointing the pipes towards our property. You also need to get permits to do this work. They did not do any of that. Already checked. If the town finds this out, they will be in deep sh-- and will have to fix what they did.

This is going away from the point of my post.
You may be an expert in drainage (somewhat) but are lacking in common sense.

The neighbors will retaliate if we decide to report them for pointing their drainage to our yard. Would you like to see the security cam videos I have of the 40 year old man revealing his penis towards our house and peeing on the fence? How about the various cars that arrive at all hours and stop briefly at the house for a pop in?
How about the children hitting our house constantly (knocking pictures off the living room walls) with their basketball hoop pointed towards our house and property. The best one was when it hit our front window. I was hoping the ball would break it.

Right now, I'm doing EVERYTHING since my father died and between working 45+ hours per week, helping my 80 year old mother and doing everything my father did, I'm a big overwhelmed and busy.

I would have to go through some CDs to find photos of the back yard to post for you. What I posted it what was on my phone and easy to grab.

You know what - F-- it --- forget I ever posted here as I'm only getting criticism and other questions about my personal life that seems to be more interesting than the question of "WHO DID YOUR WORK AND WERE THEY QUALIFIED?"

This is a pretty expensive mistake to make (hiring the wrong contractor) with money that we don't have (dead father = insurance went to funeral costs). #smh
nandina
7 years ago
Cris, your 1964 house was built when the 'good times' arrived in western NY. Old and new business and industries were moving in or enlarging and subdivisions were hastily built to meet the growing demands. Yup, cheap housing. Much of it constructed on the numerous 'perched water tables' formed by the last receding glacier. Lots of underground springs and moving water close to the surface. One of the reasons that the State has areas of very productive farming.

Yet, at that time most towns were still fairly rural and had few building codes in place. Your situation with sump pump basement draining into the sanitary system was common. Of course, as the population expanded this method caused a costly overload on the system. New codes were enacted prohibiting this. Homeowners, left to their own devices, used various methods to discharge the water somewhere. And, as you have discovered, sometimes the simple solution was to drain it onto their neighbor's property.

From what you have written it sounds as though your neighbors discharging water is the basis of your problem. You indicate plans to sell. Due to NY law you will have to disclose this situation to a prospective buyer if the soil has not firmed by the time you list the house.

Based on my experiences with area governments I would encourage you to visit your local village or town or city building department now before heavy snow and request that its civil engineer and/or building department head meet with you for guidance before spending more money. Explain the situation and your attempt to remedy it. Hopefully you will receive cooperation. Now is the time to deal with your municipal government. Not later.

Or, as a last resort, consider asking the landscaping company to install an outline bed partly bermed on the house side for a water garden. With a bit of creative thinking an interesting garden feature with perhaps a small bridge to prevent muddy paws could be developed.
PRO
Yardvaark
7 years ago
Chris, sorry to hear about the trials and tribulations of owning the house. I get your frustration about the problems that seem overwhelming. As I tried to explain earlier, solving drainage problems often requires a lot of information to be understood. And sometimes its difficult and time consuming just to explain to a person who doesn't deal with it on a regular basis, all what is needed.

You seem convinced that the problems emanate from neighbor's mishandling of their own drainage needs and you may be correct. But it depends to a fair degree on exactly how they did what they did. If you are correct but refuse to get the city after them in order to correct the problem, then you are standing in the way of things getting fixed. I don't see how anyone here could help you around that.

Knowing if the drainage company did a proper job or not, requires that one completely understands the problem(s) that existed and understood exactly what the drainage company did. From what we know now, I understand neither very well.
kitasei
7 years ago
You have my sympathy for all of this. You may not come out of this with everything you want, but you will come out of it. You say the grass hasn't grown in yet. That will do a lot to absorb some of the runoff. And if you can plant even more water-absorbing groundcover in the spring -- ferns obtained free on freecycle or craigslist come to mind - it will be even better. I also disagree that you will have to disclose the condition to potential buyers. NYS allows sellers to pay $500 and choose NOT to disclose anything. Every seller obviously now takes that option, on the advice of their lawyers. It's terrible for buyers, but will work to your advantage. It's buyer beware in NY for all intents and purposes. Hope thing look up for you. There are worse things coming down the pike for all of us I fear..