Where would this house be located ? How long term is the friend going to be staying with you ?

The friend would be very long term, likely until if/when his health gets bad enough to require living at a care facility. We are not 100% sure where yet because it must be located close to a very very good hospital that he says he needs to interview the staff of prior to moving (he has been to UCLA for 22 years and currently goes in twice a week to keep up with his condition).

Dallas is 1 area being considered, but we are also looking some other places as we would prefer to be a bit more north of there. I know part of which is better will likely depend on what the climate is, but this is still in the research stage. He wants everything nearly planned out first before spending a dime since that will have an effect on what land we get.

I am from Cali and he was born in Romania and was adopted and moved to Cali when he was 8 if it makes any difference. Nether of us want to live in Cali because of the cost.

I am not sure if the "pros" of the outbuilding you have listed are actually benefits.

"Less sf in the main house, other building can be build at a later date" - that will not work if your friend needs to move in immediately.

"If the time comes where the other rooms are not needed I can turn off the hvac etc and not have to pay to heat/cool unused space" - a zoned HVAC setup would achieve similar benefits without the need for redundant HVAC equipment in the outbuilding.

"House can be a single level which would be easier with kids" - Your described needs can be designed into a single level.

"If friends room is in the outbuilding, more privacy" - You can design privacy into the floorplan, much as if the house had a separate living area for an apartment.

"Possible extra storage (or built into the garage in a conditioned space)" - a basement would give you the same at a much lower cost.

If there is a basement that would not be used for storage as that would require adding an elevator to be accessed in the future and I would prefer my stuff stored where I will someday be unable to access it, unless it is stuff that is really never used and just has sentimental value. Though since there would only be 1 car, extra storage could go there, I would make that into a entertaining space for kids and the utility room (I did consider putting the gym there too but I really want windows in it). I am really not counting on a basement though because if we do go with Dallas they do not have them, so regardless it would be bonus space. In Cali we don't have them ether. I also may be over estimating how much I will need to store because my grandmother had every room in the house jam packed with stuff and my mom had basically 1,000sf of storage she managed to fill up so I'm scared of not having enough room.

You did give me an idea though, I could put his bedroom on the other side of the house and save the sf that would have been for stairs. Being honest, even though I am still under 30 I have issues with stairs at times. Nearly everyone in my family has fallen down stairs before and my friend has ramps build into the entry to his current home because he at times needs a wheelchair. He can walk but has a lot of surgeries and he cant walk far enough to, say, walk from 1 end of a mall to the other without stopping a lot, which may also save on at least some exterior wall materials with less of them to clad.

With the out building, it was really because I view the game room as nice but not necessary and he would be willing to wait for it and kids can share a room until then. I could be wrong on that though. Where we live now my best other best friend and her DH and their 2 kids (1 boy and 1 girl) all have to share a room at her parents home because her DH got hurt and lost his job so they are saving to move on her income. Hard to imagine what it will be like elsewhere.

I'm guessing the more universal answer would be a single level split floor plan type. I keep questioning it because there is such a variety of types of homes I love.

You have some very good points.

You may want to find the land first, because that will determine what you can or cannot build. Both from topography and from zoning restrictions. Obviously you'd be choosing the land based on ADA considerations for both you and your friend. Sounds like you already know that basements are not utilized in most of the areas you are looking into.

I do agree with the person who noted that simply putting the additional rooms in on a separate HVAC zone will help, over doing the add-on building -- and would probably help for future resale if you ever need to do that down the road.

How old are the kids?

If you need a loan to do this - it will be near impossible to get that separate building included in the appraisal unless that casitas or multi building dwellings / Granny shacks are commonplace in this area...

You are doing this backwards. First find the area you want to live in and then find your land. The land you choose will somewhat dictate what kind of house you can build in terms of shape, etc. Also HOA's or county restrictions may also dictate. You are nowhere near ready to start designing a house when you don't even know where you will live or even what state

Ok we have something similar to what you list as option 2. For zoning and insurance purposes it is considered a single building. Bank did not care but we had a non-standard financing arrangement. We are in California.

I think it wonderful that you are including your friend in your plans. What does your friend think about the options?

Good luck!

I think it is good to have an idea of your preferences because that can inform your property search.

Thank you

Kids are not even old enough for school (will likely home school).

Friend is basically family and has been for over 10 years. In those 10 years we only argued twice and that didn't last long. He has Loeys-Dietz syndrome and in the next 5-7 years will likely need a second heart surgery, in addition to the 19 various surgeries he has had in the last 22 years (including 1 from 10 months ago when he tore 5 ligaments in his knee and some could not be repaired and so far 4 from a retina detaching). I'm also the only friend he even spends time with in person, everyone else he just chats with online.

And yes, the reason we are trying to figure out now what type of arrangement we want is so that when we get land it will be correctly zoned. If it was not for the medical needs he would want a log cabin in the woods with a glass roof and a moat but I don't foresee that happening unless they find a miracle cure and he wins the lotto.

His thoughts are that he doesn't really have much preference whether to be separate or in the same building as long as the cats can be closed off from the computer stuff since he does computer repair at home freelancing (including a classroom of computers for the college we went to) and that the computer room be colder than the rest of the house. He also has a hobby making bows for archery.

If it is better for possible resale to have a guest wing type of arrangement than a separate structure then we may go with that just in case since I know how it could be connected and he doesn't need his own kitchen and a actual duplex I would think would add a lot to expense (do to adding a kitchen), though he is helping pay for it. He's been asking for years if he could live with me or have my family move in with him.

Some builders are making inconspicuous dual living arrangement home - where the front porch has 2 doors and there's a separate "suite" that is attached, but somewhat separate. I think that one building is a good answer, and if you keep the flexibility in mind for accessibility (which you are obviously going to have to do) then you would have something that could have broad appeal if you needed to sell later.

It would be really helpful if you could get some architectural help donated (or swapped out for computer repair) and even an accessibility consultant to ensure you end up with something that works for all of you.

When you say you would close off the HVAC in certain parts of the house, or separate building, when you no longer need them ... do you realize that while it may work in CA with its dry/stable climate, it most certainly doesn't work too well in the rest of the country. Humidity and freezing temperatures will cause damage and need to be managed.

Chispa, I actually didn't for rooms with no plumbing. We don't even have HVAC in our current home and I've never lived in a house that did. Just a window AC in the kitchen and a floor gas furnace in the living room, house was built in 1940 so I didn't think much of that as I never had to worry about it. That and I always see people doing story and a half so that when kids move out they no longer need to heat/cool the extra space. That is very helpful.

Something you might want to try is to look at house plans online. There are a number of sites, just Google it. Then, within those sites you can give it various parameters. Include however many rooms you want (you might have to loosely define game room as an extra bedroom or whatever) and also be sure to include the in-law suite. You may not decide to use any of these plans, but it will help give you ideas of how things can be situated.

While people do that - story and a half so that they don't have to heat/cool the space - doesn't really make it right. It isn't that helpful unless designed from the get go to be separate areas. Typically in those scenarios, the areas are still partially conditioned and so freeze issues aren't there. People I know with that setup still run the a/c for the upstairs just on a higher temp setting. So overall - makes it not that helpful from a utility standpoint.

Where do you live now?

A post like this comes up every now and again. I am remembering a multi family one from 5 years ago. Resale issues are always a concern and even though the OP may not care, the banks do. The government does - county city etc. Just keep that in mind. People are being polite here because you are generous regarding this friend. I won't be.

Given the value of RE in the US, it is in everyone's interest to keep with a standard (with in reason) layout. Everyone complains about HOAs because they are most focused on this. There are towns of course that act like HOAs. There are multiple actors in this RE value game. When you limit buyers, you lose value. Your HOA doesn't like it, your town doesn't like it, the county doesn't like it, some states don't like it and your neighbors don't like it.

I'm going to guess that you want to be within 30 minutes from a large hospital or something like that. Well guess what?, so does our huge aging population. Large hospitals, like airports and colleges, are not getting built anymore. So unregulated land near these things is getting scarce. Plenty of land, but the stake holders know that regulation increases everyone's value.

I live in an area where you couldn't build anything like this (large hospitals, airport, college in 30 min). One of those areas where duplexes aren't allowed unless specifically zoned out. So maybe I am completely wrong. But if I owned land within 30 minutes of a major hospital, airport or college, I would get it zoned to prevent some of your options. Just my $.02 to keep it flexible.

Now maybe you can live further out and then you can find open zoning.

If your friend is mobility challenged, I'd think a one-story is best. As to an area one can "close off," I've mostly seen this done as second story additions, rather than designed from the get-go. You are still going to have a pretty penatrable door to keep closed. I'd go for designing something you can work around while th kids are young (office in your bedroom, use one of their as an office when they are bigger? Put the TV in living room, with the intention a bedroom will become a media room when they move out? Design one of their rooms en suite to be a guest room once they have flown the nest, etc). Depending on your location, using a larger lot with outdoor living space also allows for another avenue to "get away," even when the home itself isn't huge. It's good to think about how a person can be alone, as well as social- one isn't always in the mood to be interacting with other people!

David Cary,

You may be remembering my multifamily post from 2011. Guess what? We are building it now. Designed as a duplex with some shared spaces that technically go with one side or the other.

Our architect, builder, banks, and appraiser thought it was a great idea the way it is designed and was easily approved by the HOA. Because of the way it was designed (and location), resale should not be an issue. Prebuilt apprasal was $1,975,000, which is pretty close to what we will have in it (including land) but appraiser mentioned that because it was designed so that it can be townhoused into two separate separate ownership units the price would go up. Townhouses in our neighborhood are selling between 1.1 and 1.4 currently.

So yes, you can go "out of the box" if well planned and design leaves room for flexibility.

Mojomom, did you post your floor plan anywhere because that sounds wonderful. Congrats to you.

Carolyn, You have a lot to consider. It's lovely that you are considering a friend with some individual needs. BUT-

Take great care in dedicating "out buildings" to children. I've seen this done- many times- and almost without fail, at a certain point- conflict. There is a certain "ownership" feel these children- even young ones- have in a space that you "grant" to them as theirs.

Sure. When they're young and small, you can still confidently move in and out of it as the parent. But think- one day, these will be teen-agers, with friends, and the welcome mat might get mighty slippery for you. You see your children right now through their potential and their current state of being. Isn't always the same thing, when they get older. Nor is it always a guarantee that their friends will respect either their rules or yours, when you're fairly effectively removed from the space.

Thank you Carolyn. I appreciate that.

It's amazing when we actually think of the spaces we use, we find we don't need as big a place as we first thought. The house my children grew up in was 3600 square feet. Downstairs had a large playroom, a small office/study, a family room which included my desk since I wanted to be with the kids, another space we never used, an eat in kitchen, a large dining room, large living room and a sun room.

I would say that 90% of the time we were either in the kitchen or in the family room which was I believe 12'6" x 19'.

When the kids got older, they and their friends liked to hang out in the sun room. That room was about 12' x 12'.

Size is not an indicator of if a house works well or not.

My last condo was 1901 square feet with 3 bedrooms and 2 baths. It worked a heck of a lot better than the 2100 square foot, 3 bedroom/ 3 bath condo we're renting now. Why? Because the layout was such that all the space was usable, whereas here this is a lot of wasted space.

Juanita, the out buildings weren't going to be for kids, it was for me and my friend mostly, game room used for everyone. I had conflicts with my family because I didn't have any space to spread out or to be alone other than my room and during college and even a bit past that I lived with my entire family. My mother has a whole 24' x 36' loft that is hers and she has her stuff in the main house too. I want spaces in main living areas to be able to have everyones stuff rather than just 1 person's like it was when I was with my mother and grandma. I do agree about conflict since I always had issues with wanting "my space" (in my case my bedroom) to be private space.

CP, everyone currently gets used but are such that they are quite awkward. Our living/family room is 13' x 18' and while it seems big enough by numbers the builders (1940 house) made it a weird space so it feels tiny. On 1 18' wall there is 30" or so that has wall and a furnace, a 5' opening to the back foyer and hallway and then the rest is wall. The other 18' wall has the front door dead center. This means it is very weird to work with putting furniture. We have 1 couch that fits on one 13' wall and then the TV and 2 dressers on the other 13' wall (so we are far from the TV) and the rest of the room is like a big walkway. We also have a eat-in kitchen but the eat-in area happens to also be where the washer and dryer are and while it might be ok if there was a banquette there with a table and chair it is very very tight. Plus the sink is far from the cooktop and there is very little usable counter space even with a peninsula. It is 20' x 14' but just does not work. My bedroom is off the dining room here and the others are by the living room. This house size wise should have fit just fine for 3-4 people but its kinda weird and with how rooms and openings are its tight even though it's bigger than most of our neighbors houses (Burbank, CA has tiny houses that cost a ton, house was bought by my grandmother for $20,000 and now its worth $750,000). All heated spaces included we have about 2400sf (about 1350sf in main house, rest in out building, I think we use that like others use a basement) and I am aiming for 2800-2900sf (does not include the game room because I do want that ether separate like a pool room or figure out another way to do it, he wants a place for a pool table and his piano). Years ago I thought for certain it would take 4000+ and it kinda scared me a bit.

Mojomom Thank you. Your post has slightly lessened my fear of HOAs. When I picture strict HOAs I keep visualizing tan stucco houses that you can open your window and shake hands with your neighbor (shudders). I am glad they are not all like that. Also thank you for pointing those things out to David because I was close to posting a rant and your post stopped me.

Renee, I have decided on single level for both your reasons you gave and others that have come up. I got a foot injury last week and now even need help getting up and down the 3 steps into the house. Thank goodness this house which was my grandparents home is single level. The other is that it occurred to me that most places have height restrictions and I have come to realize I have a huge preference for steep roofs ether gable or gambrel style and that can easily get too high. I was actually thinking of putting the computer that needs to be kept away from pets in the small room (like a pantry) off the kitchen with a door, I saw something like that on a previous thread that looked very vintage and I really loved it. I am also trying to combine room uses that in later years when the kids move could then be separated.

Now, as for what I'm really looking for with style. I want a new home that looks old and kinda built over time in a way. I love tudors, farm houses, dutch colonials, stone houses, brick houses (both nice brick in red and white washed such as lime washed or with a German smear mortar), and others. I like closed concept and while I have seen homes that are beautiful open concept, I prefer separate rooms for myself. And of course places for certain cat facilities will be incorporated and not be a after thought (I have 3 cats and all are under 9 months). Also the covered patio with outdoor heaters and some kind of front porch (don't know if I want it all the way across or just a built-out section with a roof of some kind). I would want ether brick or stone or fiber cement for cladding and if fiber cement it is likely I would choose a bright color or a very dark blue or green. For trim I lean towards ether dark stained or painted black.

CP,

I have posted parts of the plans, but not the entire plan out of respect for my architect since it's his work product. The story is interconnectivity while retaining privacy. The primary just family connection is a pantry between DD's kitchen and ours. The upsides also connect and the stair landings so that they can access our guest suite without intruding on our main floor privacy. Whike it is technically a duplex now, in the future for resale we will need to close off the connections and go through the building department to separate it into two townhouses. A bit of red tape, but both architect and city building department said it really won't be a problem. Bit of detail the house is in the Rockies with 300+" of annual snowfall, so roofs are planned with snow loads and snow shedding in mind.

Here are a few pics of elevations and the main floor. The heavy wall between the units is the common wall and all doors between the two units are fire doors. The younger generation (late 30s with a baby on the way) are unit A, whike DD and I (early 60s) are unit B. The kids will have master and another bedroom, all ensuite upstairs, while we have a guest suite up. Both basements are heated, designed and stubs for up to 2 more bedrooms each plus a recroom, but we're not planning on finishing those immediately. Ignore the kitchen layouts, we are working with a KD to improve a bit.

That is such a adorable 2 unit home. I can't wait to see what it looks like when it is finished being built. I love everything about the elevation and how the roofs work together and the details. Your architect should definitely use this to show people how good a 2 unit home can look and function. I could see this catching on, especially in areas where people ether want rental suites or want to keep aging parents nearby (so much better than the basement apartments I see on HGTV that people stick family members in). I am so happy for you.

I do remember it now Mojo. It definitely is going to be a wonderful home for you and your family.

Carolyn,

I'm curious what the rant would be. I'm just reminding you of another consideration. You are moving to another area which may have different standards and different rules. Maybe where I live is unusually strict (it is) but zoning is zoning. Either way, watch for it when you buy land.

I'm a bit jaded because our neighbor's house is weird, turns over frequently, at a relatively low price and is a comp. Despite a lot of rules.....

HOAs come in all flavors. What you think of is HOA is probably tract housing. Most newer areas (in my vicinity) are carved into areas requiring HOAs. They are required even just to control rainwater runoff. I think technically you could develop without one but you would need an expensive water plan - much easier to spread over 20+ houses.

Mojomom - glad to see things are going well. What a timeline if you are still designing. I'm sure you realize that $2+ million dollar duplexes are not the norm around the country. And I'm just curious, with an extended time line, do you have some assurances that appraisal will be the same when you go to close your final loan? I know when we built, we didn't even get appraisal until it was closed and I believe that is the norm.

Carolyn and CP -- thank you! It is a long time dream of ours and we've worked hard to make happen.

David, the appraisal won't matter because of how much cash we have in it. We are borrowing less than 3O% of cost, meaning that at prebuilt appraisal we have 70% equity either in land or cash from us (not the loan) sitting in draw account.

As for just having appraisal at closing, we own the property and have a one time close construction to perm loan, so there will be no further "closing". This is the final loan and whatever is outstanding on the construction loan will amortize and convert to permanent upon completion. If we sell our current home by then, we may just pay it off in full before it converts. We can do so with no penalty.

Just got lucky. Sold a vacation home at a good profit (and had paid it off in 10 years, so all equity) also got lucky had a few good income years at work (we are both professionals self employed) and from family farm. That part won't last so we saved while we knew we could. We will both be semi retiring next year, but haven't touched retirement savings and the farm will continue to generate income (just not as much as in recent boom years).

Mojo, if you have one of the great rates now, I wouldn't pay back the loan. DH and I could pay cash for our home, but felt the mortgage rates (and build - convert rates) are so low right now, our money is better being invested.

The house actually looks fine. It is the inside that is a hot mess. People buy without realizing the issues then sell in about 3 years when it won't seem like they are dumping it.... At least that is my take. We built 7 years ago and have our 4th neighbors. The first ones were from CA and could never close their custom build - they rented for a few months from the builder before leaving in the middle of the night. See my bias from CA .... Mind you I was born there, lived some there, and have family at both ends.

CA housing obviously extremely diverse. Cookie cutter tract and then hodge podge. At least that is my take. Just like with other things, diversity is a bit more celebrated. My sister has and still does live in extremely flawed and expensive housing in the LA basin.

But back to your situation. RE in CA - people tolerate and pay high $$ for less than ideal housing. When land is less scarce, people tolerate much less. Unusual may not sell (or appraise well) outside of Dallas for example.

Carolyn's case is unusual for the amount of cash she has. Back in 2007, this forum was ripe with stories about people who couldn't close their build. Like my neighbor - that was 2009 - we were a little late in NC. I believe we live in uncertain times. The interest rate market is becoming volatile. I put caution into building because I remember 2007. My house is just over 2x my income and am considering building at 3x my income. Going to wait a bit to see how things shake out. Affording it is not an issue but I'd be pretty upset if I had to close at more than 5% APR

I think one lesson from this thread is that all real estate is local, not just pricing but types of living arrangements and styles. For example in my area, higher end duplexes are very common, probably because it is a mountain resort area. Another common arrangement here are auxiliary units - basement apartments or over the garage apartments. Zoning even encourages these as rental units for workforce housing. Our old vacation had one and we had wonderful tenants.

Carolyn, because you are undecided in location, I think a mother-in-law type wing would be the most universally permitted, because it essentially is still a single family home. If you find an area of interest, check out subdivisions design guidelines before purchasing, but you can get a good idea just by driving around. For example, we frequently travel though or around Nashville, TN, and watched some large lot (not tract home type) subdivisions to the south of town on our short-cut winding route that clearly allowed outbuildings. Talk to local realtors in areas of interest. When we were looking for our lot we weren't wedded to a duplex and considered other types of arrangements, but, any subdivision that did not allow fences was a non-starter for us and those areas were pretty obvious just from a drive around. A good realtor can point you in the right direction for areas to check out.