I would want the 2 stage var speed blower XV80 furnace. You should know the XL80 furnace does not have a var speed blower. 2nd choice would be XT80 with high eff blower. Both 60 K size. 824 thermostat for XV80, HW Mdl 8321 for XT80. I would like to know more about the ductwork, type duct and insulation properties, number of returns. Has a load calculation been performed? I would insist on it. XR16 AC condenser is fine if correctly sized. Anything about a filter cabinet? What model evap coil quoted? You want a Trane or AS, no third party brand.

IMO

I do not like these larger HVAC companies nor purchasing HVAC from big box stores. I prefer authorized dealers who are small and the independent owner is actively involved in the operation of the business, both management, sales, and service. Where I live, I see a trend and not necessarily a good one where longtime established dealers are adding plumbing and electric to their résumé.

IMO

"Guarantee 30% energy savings."

Who is giving the guarantee and what happens if you don't achieve a 30% savings?

Most people don't know how much it costs to heat their house so proving you didn't get the savings is difficult. Your old furnace would have to be in very bad shape in order to get a 30% savings in my opinion.

The dealer's contract form has its guarantees in writing on it. The utility savings one says you will save a minimum of 30% with the 16 seer system on heating and cooling costs in the first year or you will be refunded double the difference of savings not realized. Have to notify immediately so system can be checked.

In response to tigerdunes, I do not have the model numbers which I requested. They are to be emailed to me today. I am concerned about the number of complaints online about the XT80 Trane furnaces in terms of repairs needed and failure to heat complaints. As I understand it, the ducts will be flexible insulated and sealed ductwork going from the plenum I think to each room in the house. There will be a central return in the central hall way.ceiling 24" by 30" and a separate return from the utility room as it is adjacent to the carport and not within the house structure itself to be served by the central return. As to load calculation, he measured each room and used a formula to calculate CFM required as I understand it. Nine to ten vents were discussed of different sizes. Each bidder basically took this same approach. All said a 3 ton unit was needed. This dealer is a certified Trane dealer identified from the Trane website when seeking a dealer. The prior owner of a year ago was a locally owned family business with an excellent reputation for HVAC work. The current owner is also a family owned business which began in North and Central Louisiana and has grown through out La. and I think the South. The current owner's son is the manager and the prior owner;s son still works there. The work force is from the prior company with the excellent reputation. The current company was just recognized in central La. as the HVAC co. of 2016. They are BBB approved, registered with Secretary of State and have state licenses. I was told by the service manager that it is the largest HVAC company in the South. So it could become over time what you are concerned about. I have tried to do due diligence in checking it out. Once I get the model numbers I will post them and appreciate any advice you might have. I cannot say how much I appreciate the time taken by all posters to give me their thoughts as this is a big investment. So Many thanks to all of you.

My best furnace choice is the XV80. I am not familiar with XT80 being problematic...can you point me to some objective data on the issues involved?....not a fan of all flex ductwork at all...for better airflow and comfort, I recommend 2 returns 20 x 20 strategically located with a central air filter media cabinet at the furnace. Better yet, ask dealers quoting to provide matching AHRI number for each system.

IMO

Definitely get a furnace with a variable speed blower and a thermostat that can control humidity using this feature. Louisiana has hot humid summers and dehumidification is a major consideration for you. 3 tons seems high for 1300 sq ft - dehumidification will be adversely affected if the system is oversized. Insist on a proper load calc before you let them install the new equipment. You may find 2 ton AC is more than adequate(?)

or 2 1/2 ton AC condenser....need load calc especially cooling!

IMO

In response to sktn77a, thank you for commenting on the square footage. I was wondering about that. The bidder quoted a 15-16 seer A/C and gas furnace and added variable speed indoor fan. The bidder is out of town and the service manager is telling me that the XT 80 furnace is the one that goes with this system and does not have a variable speed option. He has not responded to my email asking what does variable speed indoor fan mean on the bid form. Is this the same as a variable speed blower?

In response to tigerdunes, The numbers given for the 15-16 set up were:

condensor-4TTR6036, Evap Coil-4TXCC004, Furnace-TUD1B060A9H3, and TCONT624AS42DA. Thank you all for your suggestions.

'Control' when it comes to humidity is a bit more challenging than just putting a variable speed blower (furnace or air handler) with a single speed air conditioner.

Humidity Control comes in various flavors:

Single speed AC with variable speed blower: not true control, merely a function. It will attempt to alleviate some humidity, but does poorly under most scenarios in a high humid climate.

2 or more speeds AC with variable speed blower: In terms of bang for buck this is the better option for humidity control. It's still not really 'control' in the real sense of the word, but night and day difference from lower end options. In a 2 speed AC it will run in first stage AC mode upwards of 90% of the time. Because of this the unit runs the longest removing humidity during these stints. When you lower the humidity level in the home, you feel much more comfortable and you eliminate a vast array of problems. (*when installed properly.)

Whole House Dehumidifier: If you want 'control' this is it. It is a separate system tied to your HVAC system. Has it's own controller called a humidistat. It comes at a price and typically can 'INCREASE' utility bills upwards of 30%. This is why the 2 speed AC is the best bang for the buck.

Communicating HVAC Systems:

Trane and American Standard aren't as best suited for 2 speed AC options merely because these systems aren't communicating systems. I believe in order to get communicating systems with either of these brands you would have to go to the 20 SEER model which tends to price most people out of the better system. A Communicating system does a far better job in the realm of humidity control because the thermostat has the ability to 'talk' to the indoor and outdoor equipment. This leads to far greater comfort and a much better HVAC system.

The bidder is out of town and the service manager is telling me that the XT 80 furnace is the one that goes with this system and does not have a variable speed option.

For OP, this statement in your last post is factually incorrect. There are multiple AHRI matching systems using a 3 ton XR16 paired with the 60 K XV80 furnace. I can't imagine why he would tell you this unless he is steering you to what he wants you to have.

With the XV80 and the right thermostat, you can set up independent "dehumidify on demand" for AC cooling which I would recommend.

IMO

"Trane and American Standard aren't as best suited for 2 speed AC options merely because these systems aren't communicating systems. I believe in order to get communicating systems with either of these brands you would have to go to the 20 SEER model "

I am not an expert on all the Trane and American Standard equipment, but I think this statement if very misleading and just confuses people.

All thermostats communicate to the equipment they control. That is their primary purpose. The simplest communication is one way, thermostat to equipment. The most advanced is communication in both directions and the thermostat controls the speeds of the equipment beyond a high and low setting. I think that is what is referred to as a communicating system, but then again I have never seen a formal definition.

I don't see why you can't have an effective 2-speed 16 SEER AC with a non-communicating system. The thermostat tells the AC and furnace or air handler when to operate in the high or low stage for cooling. It may not be the best set up, but it is still a major improvement over a single stage AC.

Trane and American Standard have a large selection of equipment. A good HVAC dealer spends time selecting the right equipment to match the customer's needs and budget. It takes time and effort to do it. But if you are an authorized dealer for one brand you should have already prepared so you can present it to the customer with little effort.

2 speed non-communicating system: call for 1st stage cooling. System runs for x number of minutes then engages stage 2 if cooling demand / heat demand hasn't been met. This system has no knowledge of out door ambient temps. It merely counts down a set number of minutes to engage to 2nd stage cooling / heating.

2 speed communicating system: call for 1st stage cooling. System thermostat talks with out door unit to know what out door ambient temp is. Due to algorithmic control may increase or decrease blower speed to compensate needs of the structure. It knows what the indoor temp is, it knows how long the system has been running, it knows based on time as well as temp readings inside and out. Far less temperature swings from the point of start up to the point in which the unit cycles off.

Now given that... which one would you want?

getting off subject from OP but I suspect the average homeowner would not notice the difference...or even care.

IMO

The problem here is there is no formal definition of a communicating system. What you describe as non-communicating is a control board staged system. You can still have good humidity control with a 2-stage system without having to monitor the outdoor temperature using one way communication. The best of course is bidirectional communication with variable speed control and outdoor temperature monitoring.

I don't want to get away from the subject, but I did not want to give the OP the impression he had to spend the additional money on a communicating system with a 20 SEER rating in order to get both efficiency and comfort.

'getting off subject from OP but I suspect the average homeowner would not notice the difference...or even care.'

Oh really? People don't call you when it's 95 outside with 80% humidity and complain that the AC isn't cool enough?

Ah, the difference between someone who only writes about things in a blog...

This isn't off subject, the OP is replacing this machine. If she doesn't replace it with something she 'truly' wants... it is likely a 15 year mistake. Sorry Tiger, what you say here doesn't hold water.

'I don't want to get away from the subject, but I did not want to give the OP the impression he had to spend the additional money on a communicating system with a 20 SEER rating in order to get both efficiency and comfort.'

Mike, that's the whole point... they don't have to go to 20 SEER to get this kind of comfort only with Trane / American Standard and maybe a few other brands.

Goodman and Amana brands both have communicating systems starting with their 2 speed 16 SEER models. In my opinion either of these are better when installation is done properly and the HVAC contractor sets the machine up as a communicating system.

I know you are not a fan of Trane and American Standard, but to say that those companies only offer communicating equipment with only 20 SEER rated equipment I believe is not correct.

The OP wants reliable equipment within her budget. In my opinion she doesn't have to spend the extra money on a 2-way communicating system to achieve what she wants.

Thank all of you who have responded so much. I have a much better understanding of what a system should look like. I am going to get additional quotes and have made notes of your suggestions so I am better prepared in stating what kind of system I am looking for. I see now that they have packaged systems that they are pushing. I am also going to insist on an explanation of the calculation of tonnage. Thanks again.

Just a clarification on a couple of things.

A "communicating" system generally means a serial digital communication between the thermostat and the condenser and furnace/air handler (4 wires). Everything is handled digitally. A "non-communicating" system generally means parallel communication between the thermostat and the condenser and furnace/air handler (6-12 wires, depending on the sophistication of the non-communicating system). Both systems can do pretty much anything you would like (including 2 way communication) but the "communicating" system does everything over 4 wires. If you buy "communicating" equipment today, it is serial digital.

Single stage units can produce satisfactory dehumidification in the summer when coupled with a dehumidifying thermostat which can reduce the speed of a variable speed air handler. Not as good as a dedicated dehumidifier but better than a non-dehumidificating (non-dehumidifying thermostat and/or non-variable speed air handler).

'getting off subject from OP but I suspect the average homeowner would not notice the difference...or even care.'

Oh really? People don't call you when it's 95 outside with 80% humidity and complain that the AC isn't cool enough?

Ah, the difference between someone who only writes about things in a blog...

This isn't off subject, the OP is replacing this machine. If she doesn't replace it with something she 'truly' wants... it is likely a 15 year mistake. Sorry Tiger, what you say here doesn't hold water.

the nicest thing I can say about the above post from Austin is unadulterated nonsense. A large difference of opinion. You don't need a high end communicating system to have good comfort.

TD

The OP lives in a high humid climate, I live in a high humid climate (Katy, Texas). What works extremely well in one climate may be over kill for other climates RIGHT? Where does Tiger live?

Comfort means different things to different people. If manufacturer's deemed that you don't need a 'communicating system' then why spend all that R & D money to make them?

You don't 'need' air conditioning at all. I grew up without it. Even attended a school in Oklahoma that didn't have air conditioning. But does this mean people are going to stop buying air conditioners?

How am I doing on the unadulterated nonsense theme?

Quote:"Single stage units can produce satisfactory dehumidification in the summer when coupled with a dehumidifying thermostat which can reduce the speed of a variable speed air handler."

Impossible to define 'satisfactory' when there are climates with low humidity and those with high humidity. High humidity is deemed in excess of 80% out doors on a regular basis.

Humidity is independent of temperature: You can have 80% humidity and 70ish degree weather. A single speed system will not adequately do anything with humidity control under such a scenario. Because full system capacity at 70ish degree weather will over cool the structure and cycle the equipment off.

A communicating system knows outdoor ambient temperature: In fact the thermostat will even display the out door temperature on the thermostat. So what is the importance of that?

Still spouting nonsense and BTW I live in humid Southeast so I know about high humidity!

IMO

"Impossible to define 'satisfactory' when there are climates with low humidity and those with high humidity. High humidity is deemed in excess of 80% out doors on a regular basis."

North Carolina: Humidity >80% for most of the summer (usually in the mid 90%s).

"Satisfactory": 50% humidity or less indoors at comfortable temperatures (76 degrees, plus or minus).

Sure, there's a limit to how much you can generalize but the OP lives in a pretty humid climate where a decent AC system (not necessarily the most expensive or sophisticated) can reduce indoor humidity to comfortable levels.

skin is absolutely correct!

TD

Sure, and the ball on the half yard line is not a Touch Down.

'Comfort means different things, to different people... and because neither of you have a communicating system doesn't mean I can explain fully in text what that means.'

But if you were comparing a Trane 2 speed non-communicating (legacy) system

to a Goodman / Amana 2 speed communicating system and the price was similar for either one... which one would you choose?

That is what changes the dynamics of the equation --- does it not?

BUT, you have to know which is actually the better of the two and why.

#Ah that old devil in the details again!

On a side note: Have either one of you dealt with a customer who was a 'hot box'? Someone that is highly sensitive to heat? Not everyone deals with these issues... especially men. Women are known to suffer from what are called 'hot flashes'.

And so because you don't realize this you are going to cut yourself off from 50% more business to actually solving a big problem? Yeah more unadulterated non-sense from me. Pay no attention to it.