Acer rubrum is a fine tree as well.

I think saccharum is a better looking tree in summer, with its dense, deeper green and slightly larger mature size, but rubrum is a fine tree as well.

No, they won't diminish, they will just move farther north, good for us, LOL

I can't disagree with that, but the Reds grow wild on this ground, so they're the superior tree. ;)

Wayne, do you see Sugar Maple in SE Saskatchewan?

Mother nature planted! Beautiful natural shaped crown! Some great looking reds

Lots of red maples in my neck of the woods, fall color ranges from clear yellow through the darkest purple-red. I have a naturally occurring one that has smallish three lobed leaves and turns a orangey mellon color most years, very attractive. The color is just starting, and will make up the majority of the color until the oaks start turning.

Lots of silvers planted locally here over the years, I suspect some of the wild reds are hybrids. Silver maple here naturally occurs along water courses, but with the amount planted in the landscape volunteers are found in areas that they naturally wouldn't. I guess the good thing is most are not planting silver maples any longer, they're opting for the newer red clones and freemans.

The TN Dept of Forestry considers red maple invasive, even though it is native to all parts of the state.

great pictures maakia!

I like reds so much I added 4 to the yard last spring. makes a total of 5 now.

'Lots of silvers planted locally here over the years,' Ken, this town is full of them. In many cases, one specimen takes up the whole yard. I'm beginning not to like them.

Silvers, Native to MN but found wild only in the swampy areas. This year the wild ones turned blazing colors yellow/red. The yard trees were pretty bland.

Sugar Maples are native in SE Manitoba, but there are planted Sugar and Silver Maples here Reds won't survive but some Freeman types will. I have 3 Sugar Maples, they didn't have great color this year and the leaves get torn up before they get a chance to thicken up.

Sugar maples are increasing their numbers & spreading in this region, near its southeastern limits (at least in lowlands).

We have a heavy population of both in this area, but Reds are more abundant on my property. It does seem like the Sugars handled the drought much better than the Reds this summer. They were much more "lush" and have exquisite color this fall.

I have read that Sugar Maple will develop some deep roots and when there is a dry spell will bring moisture up to the shallow roots

Red maple sap makes a very good syrup, by the way. They are often tapped along with sugar, silver, and even box elder maples.

Wayne, rooting depth-of any species-is largely a function of soil texture. Plant roots need oxygen, so if a soil is composed of very small particles, like clay soils are, the roots will penetrate less deeply-as a rule-than in a gravelly or sandy soil. These are only generalizations. What you say could be true under certain situations. I doubt if anyone really knows all that much about the differences across species in terms of root function and morphology. I'm sure some is known, just perhaps not that much. We do still tend to treat varying tree species similarly to how a veterinarian might erroneously treat dogs and cats exactly alike.

In my old neck of the woods (loamy sand with sand under), the reds grow wild along the edges of low grounds/streams, where the soil is better and stays more evenly moist. The ones I've dug have all their roots in the top 12" of soil (they stop where it turns to sand even though it's wet underneath).

The Sugars don't grow wild in the same area but further east where it's loamy top soil with clay mix underneath, the sugars I've dug there have much more developed root systems with what seems to be a tap root(s) going down into the clay.

Nothing to do with Acer rubrum, but your words there Bill remind me of an oddity in our woods; So, Thuja occidentalis makes up a great percentage of the woods. Northern white cedar if you will. This tree is always and everywhere associated with moisture, and our woods is no exception; There is literally an underground stream present there-water is always near the surface and is always moving, albeit slowly. So anyway, we've got a bit of relief in the topography there and the "cedar" are growing on a high hump of ground in one area-the water is still near the surface even here, but down in the low area are sugar maples! That's exactly opposite of what you would expect. But there it is...sugar maples down in the hollow and Thuja occidentalis occupying a higher knob of ground. It's not like that everywhere on this property but there is an area exhibiting this odd arrangement of species.

There are so many variables in plant adaptation, climate, soil structure and natural forces that many anomalies like you describe occur in nature. Could be the maples being more shade tolerant, started when there was canopy of another kind that dominated the low areas. While the Thuja, didn't develop there but did on the higher ground where sunlight was plentiful. Sounds like an interesting place you have there.

We have Drummond Red Maple down here, so no fall color unless you like dull yellow.

I do have a 'Florida Flame' from Woodlanders, but it's still too young for a good review.

Exactly.....one cannot rule out happenstance! So, where seeds happen to land can be expected to have a major effect on where certain species end up growing! To state the obvious.

Yes, my land is my baby. Well, actually, my three granddaughters are my babies! But you get the idea. We just had a good time of it up there over the past weekend fixing an outhouse that was being pushed out of the ground by frost heaves. I know you can't envision this, but when I say "outhouse", I'm talking about a hand-crafted building made of locally-sourced spruce lumber, the kind of building where if there was such a magazine as Outhouses Quarterly, ours would be on the cover of the first edition! Really cool building sitting in amongst the cedars. Man, I sure do get on some tangents! But at any rate, yes, wild lands do exhibit some strange things from time to time. I also really like all the paper birch in the swamp that have grown up right along with the Thuja, neck and neck, growing skyward in that cool, moist area. Many amazing things in the woods.

wisc, Any hemlock on the place?

Lot of people loose that connection with nature,really great seeing you share it with your grandkids.

Rubrums around here are plentiful, as you'd expect. The ones that I believe are true native provenance (based on observation in woods/woodland edges, farms, etc) seem to have a more open, irregular growth pattern than, say an 'October Glory'. Not quite like silver maple, but intermediate between an October Glory and a typical silver maple. However, the leaves, buds, etc. are unmistakably Acer rubrum. They usually color well in fall, often more of an orange, but can be yellow, orange, red, or even purplish. There are some here that are just gigantic, by red maple standards at least.

They definitely have a different "feel" than the common cultivars, yet are still unmistakably Red Maple.

Hairmetal, the Reds you describe look very nice in my imagination. I've got one at the end of the driveway that has excellent color and almost perfect horizontal branching. It's about 20' and is way too close to a few scrubby Northern Pin Oaks. I've been tempted to remove the oaks, but seems like heresy.

'bama tree hugger, is Drummond a cultivar or geographical variety?

Maackia,

'Drummond' is the type we have down here that typically grows in bottomland/swampy areas, the leaves have a pubescent whitish look to the undersides.

OK -- thanks. I find it rather amazing that a species can prosper in the bottomlands of Alabama to the dry uplands of Wisconsin. Acer rubrum can survive!

Hair, the red maples you describe could have some silver maple heritage in them -- hybrids back-crossed to reds several times. Maybe I can get a pic of a beauty I've seen along a road w/upsweeping branch-tips like a silver maple (which in my experience regular red maples don't have).

Many of the Red Maples in the lower Appalachians have very good fall color, and the leaves are more distinctly lobed. I brought some seedlings from eastern TN back home with me to south AL, but they absolutely would not grow down here, I don't know if it was the heat, the soil, or what.

Lot of old growth red maples in Appalachians. I live in the valley of eastern Tennessee soil here is perfect for trees from the mountains pushing clay,sand,rocks,soil that are found deeper in the ground. I call it the mixing pot

Acer rubrum makes it all the way down to S. Florida.

I like acer rubrum. A nice, easy to obtain, native tree. Provides great shade and fall color.