Yes, they will probably get much taller than 6 feet in our area. To increase bloom, train them as horizontally as you can.

Jackie

Hmmm... Great thank you! Horizontal...hmmmm. I wonder if I should try to wrap these around the obelisks I am going to try my hand at.

Or if I should stick to the arbor idea. They will get horizontal at the top of the arbor. Or they will be horizontal around the obelisk... I'm just not sure of how flexible these canes are. Decisions decisions. I will have to do some experimenting.

The blooms are SUPER fragrant! Really, really, REALLY pure classic rose fragrance. It's amazing they are so fragrant even though they're just barely opening.i can't wait until there are more blooms to just knock me over with their fragrance.

I have been trying to decide on a deep, dark, blackish, purplish, red rose for a while. I would have never chosen Falstaff if my local nursery didn't have it. I know they haven't been great performers for many in gardenweb, but these have me really excited! They look they might peform in my zone... and my yard! I hope they keep it up when I put them in the ground. Fingers crossed.

Looking forward to seeing pictures of them when they are planted and have their first Spring. From the comments I read, they do really well in the PNW, so if where you live is really hot in the Summer, you might put them somewhere where they would get some afternoon shade.

Jackie

Good info! Thank you! I'm looking forward to taking pics. ;) I wish we had smell-i-vision and I could post their fragrance. When I leaned in to the first little bud opening this morning my eyes must have popped out of my head. I wasn't expecting that powerful of a fragrance. I wonder if the afternoon shade will affect the frgrance.... or if it might help the color become deeper and richer. The new buds are looking like a lovely shade ofred right now. I'm looking forward to seeing them change to deep, dark purple-y red. They get afternoon sun where I have them temporarily placed... I will place them in a little more shade tomorrow and see what happens with the next buds.

I am so thankful for the experts on this forum! Thank you for helping me experiment. Our roses are making the world a lovelier place. :)

It's weird that there's not a climbing variety... you just train it as a climber and it becomes a climber. Strange.

That makes sense about Austins. That's why they're described as having "octopus arms" by people in warmer climates... they're actually morphing into climbers!

Several people on gardenweb (which I trust more than other sources) have reported that Falstaff is stingy with blooms... but there's 8 buds on one of them right now and 5 and 6 on the others. And it's October! Maybe it just likes warm, inland, arid climates like mine.

I'm going to move them into a spot that gets some shade from the midday sun today since that was recommend by Jackie. Maybe I will move two and keep one where it's at to conduct my own little experiment about sun. It's still in the 90s and 80s where I'm at during the day. Can't wait for more blooms and more photos!

I also bought a grafted Falstaff for cheap from Lowe's after seeing the beautiful pics of it climbing at the DAUK site. Mine is in morning light only growing up a wire trellis, so I'll see how she does next year. Although only planted in mid-August, he's put on a lot of growth with both basal and laterals shooting up. The scent is so beautiful and the color is intense. Let's compare notes next year.

Sounds like a plan Vaporvac.

When I came home from work today one bloom had fully opened up and faded a little to pink. Not dark purple blackish crimson.

Like recommended, a little afternoon shade will probably be a good thing. It's still in the 90s today and there's a lot of radiant heat from the stone where I put them temporarily. Too much.

I moved 2 into a spot with shade during midday, but still sunny for most of the morning and late afternoon. I am keeping one in the same spot in the sun to see what happens.

After experimenting a little, I think these would be good to try to wrap around an obelisk. Not ideal, but good. They seem flexible enough and already want to grow in the fashion, reaching and out around a bit. I will update with some pics once I get them going. With the weather being as it is, they might give me a strong flush this fall. :)

Austin says 'Falstaff' is too bushy to be considered a natural climber but grown against a wall will attain medium height, in one book. (I am so jealous. That's a red I'd love to try.)

In 'The English Roses' (Timber Press, 2005) where he has grouped his roses he lists the following as being capable shrub-climbers. The criteria I could figure out was they grew 25% taller against a wall. An 8 footer became a 10 footer (mind you this is in England). Perhaps bushiness was a disqualification?

Austin's Shrub-Climbers
Planted next to a wall, rather than a pillar, allows them greater height.
They are more floriferous this way than any other climber. (didn't understand this)

A Shropshire Lad (leander grp.) --- wall 10ft., peachy pink, one repeat.

James Galway (leander grp.) --- wall 10ft., warm pink, good repeats, vy disease free. (8ft on pillar)

Malvern Hills (musk grp.) --- wall 12ft. + 'repeating Rambler', buff to pale yel. 2" flower, fall blm. on drooping long canes with flower at every joint, musk frag., excel disease resistance, not good as shrub.

St. Swithun (old rose hybrid grp.) --- wall 12ft., soft pink buttoned flat rosette, equally good as a shrub. (noisette x old rose hybrid).

Snow Goose (musk grp.) --- wall 10ft. + 'repeating Rambler', white uneven length petals on smaller flower, long lax growth will work as a ground cover rose, sweet musk frag., repeats well, excel disease resistance.

Spirit of Freedom (old rose hybrid grp.) --- wall 9ft., soft pink ages to lilac pink, deep cup with petals angled toward center.

The Generous Gardener (musk grp.) --- wall 12ft. +, soft pink nodding cup shape opens to expose stamens, vy disease resistant, arching as a shrub.

The Pilgrim (musk grp.) --- wall 10ft. +, medium yellow rosette shallow cup, may keep quite short, cut back long shoots.

Thanks irisgal. What an interesting book to have and be able to refer to. I wonder if the wall allows greater height because the rose would grow more vertically up a wall, while on a pillar (or obelisk) it would be wrapped around... so lose some height even though the canes would most likely still be as long?

Flagstaff says 4ft, 6ft as a climber. Let's see what happens in my area, wrapped around an obelisk. :) I'm going to bet 8 vertical feet. Anyone want to take an over-under? ;)

They don't really look what I would call bushy in my climate currently... Even before I trimmed all the questionable stuff off.

It's funny.... we refer to zones and climate, but we also know there is a lot more to consider... we just don't really have classifications besides the zones. I saw on the organic rose forum that a member in Islamabad is also considered zone 9b... but there's monsoons and totally different soil there. Completely different than the northern California inland climate! Even working the microclimates in my yard, moving the Falstaffs into an area with less radiant heat... might change the color of the bloom and how the plant grows.

I'm excited to experiment! I'm hoping I can get a deep, dark crimson. Can't wait to get some more photos to post.

I think I found their new home. Looking closely, the new blooms got a little crispy on the edges from the heat where I had them temporarily placed before. They will get a little shade here from my neighbors tree during mid day, but still lots of morning sun and evening sun. The obelisks should arrive Thursday. Now I just have to move some Icbergs I already have or buy new ones and get them all going up the obelisks. Guess I know what I will be doing this weekend!

Faded and a little crispy. Let's see how they do in their new home. 6 buds on the left one. 8 buds on the right. :)

What a difference 2 days in the shade makes. The first bloom is the same open bloom pictured before. Falstaff is supposed to get darker, but I just don't think it's going to happen with this bloom. It opened in the full sun and just got too much sun.

The next photo is a bloom that got too much sun when it was first opening, but then got moved into the shade. It's a little darker. Maybe it will get darker still. I'm curious if the color will recover. Based on the other one... I don't think so, but let's see.

The next photo is of buds that were formed when it was in full sun, but it got moved to the shade before they began opening. They are MUCH darker so far.

So... lesson learned. In order to be dark and delicious Falstaff likes more shade in my hot and dry area. The blooms don't recover and get darker if they open in full sun.

For the record... this Falstaff is now getting morning sun for about 5 hours, shade during midday and afternoon, then another 1ish hour of evening sun as the sun is setting.

I can't tell if the shade is making it less fragrant. The construction dust is getting to me today.

Mine is still a far cry from the rich, dark crimson color it is supposed to be though.

The new, darker buds are getting closer. I wonder if it needs even more shade. I would love it if mine looked like roseteacher's in this post... http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1709216/no-more-austins-for-me

Wow Cori, I love your back yard beds and raised beds. It looks like you have a lot of roses to plant. (LUCKY!!!) I wish I had some nice raised beds like that, ready for planting. What other roses are you considering for your yard?

Dark red roses are always tricky, because so many either "pink out" or crisp in to much sun, but then don't like to flower unless they get enough of it.

Saw a Falstaff in a public garden here once, and the smell was just wonderful- but then I noticed that as it was being grown as a shrub, it was only flowering at the end of long octopus arms, that were being weighed right down into the ground by enormous clusters of 5/7 blooms...always wondered how it would do if it was espaliered after that. The colour was more of a dark raspberry purple than crimson tho.

Good point Curdle. I have been on the hunt for the sweet spots in my yard because I am enamored by dark red blooms.

I planted and tied Falstaff to the obelisks yesterday. Here's the one with the long arm and the faded blooms (above). Now he's all tied up and my prisoner! I wound that long arm all the way around. It's hard to recognize him now, but he's oriented the same way. Didn't prune him at all, but he's about 1/3 of his height because I tied him as horizontal as I could. Falstaff in the back. Iceberg in the front.

Here's those two little dark buds.

Here they are together.

Not to shabby for my first time! I'm sure I did several things "wrong," but I'm pretty happy with them so far and think they're going to be gorgeous! The canes are remarkably flexible. Didn't snap a one! I am going to post more photos and the rest of the photos going forward in the obelisk thread I started just to make a consistent place to keep updating.

SoFl Rose... will probabaly also create a "massive backyard rose garden remodel" post in the near future with before/after photos, my plans and all the roses I'm planting. It's coming together! It's fun to share this with other gardeners who appreciate it. :)

Here's where I'm going to post photos of Falstaff and Iceberg on the obelisks going forward... http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4205651/tower-of-roses-obelisks

:)

Ok so maybe I will post a couple of photos just showing their color. :) The new shady spot and one day of overcast weather totally darkened Falstaff. I love the color accented by White Iceberg. I'm thrilled! I would think that Falstaff would do amazing in an area where it's sometimes overcast, but also sunny. Just one day and the blooms immediately rewarded me with a darker, richer color. In sunnier areas like mine, they seem to like some shade or filtered light, so if you have a shady spot, something to tie it laterally, and like dark crimson... this one could be a winner for you too. :)

Happy little buds for your viewing pleasure.

Thank you for the bud pics. You should put one on HMF as it's so helpful for ID. I love your colour combo. I put my Falstaff next to and behind Sugar Moom and it's really pretty. Here are a couple of pics from when I first put up the trellising. He's grown a lot since then. (Wish I could say the same for SM. :( )

It's too bad sugar moon isn't growing yet. I bet the fragrance from the two together is just heaven! Wonderful scent combo! I, obviously, also really love the classic combo of white and red. Great minds think alike! :)

Is your Falstaff pinkish red like the photo, or is the camera having a hard time picking up the dark red? It's such a perfectly formed bloom.

Pics are up on HMF :)

Loving Falstaff more and more every day. Lovely foliage. Blooms are so much happier in the shade (here at least). Buds open sloooooowly in the shade. I have about 20-25 buds on them right now (between 3 plants)... but they're making we wait.

They were in warp speed in the sun and heat.

Individual petals are surprisingly sturdy and thick, almost like cardboard.

In the right climate and the right spot, Falstaff is just breathtaking.

Hehe Yeah, Munstead Woods is making me wait- one bloom so far, but many more being painfully slow to follow! Still, considering that if it takes longer to open in the shade, it will likely stick around longer for you to admire is a consoling thought:)

One bloom is eggplant purple today. Another is is a gem worthy ruby red.

So pretty. Eggplant with even deeper purple on reverse.

Rudy red.

The dark green, rounder, heart shaped leaves are Falstaff. The lighter (but still dark green), oval leaves are Iceberg.

This is quickly becoming my favorite fall rose.

When I saw your first picture and read that it climbed, despite not being a climber, I wondered about mislabeling. The color was more like my Austin Benjamin Britten, which is a climber and has a wonderful fragrance, but is not deep red like my (much shorter and less robust) Falstaff.

I recently bought 6 (!) bareroot roses from Home Depot (serves me right!) labelled as Ballerina which turned out to be Kordes "Pink Perfection". Grrrr.

For glorious scent and deep red color I have loved Prince Camille de Rohan. Charles de Mills is also glorious deep red/purple, but once blooming.

Thanks Julie. They're definitely Falstaff though. Things just get BIG here in CA. I have learned many of the DAs become "climbers" here. ;)