I've seen this one freeze off in a sharp winter here (western USDA 8) so it certainly won't be hardy there. You will probably have to do something like lay the tops down and bury them every autumn in order to keep your planting going.

Always plant long term plants (anything living more than one or two years, not being replaced that frequently) in existing soil, without modification. Do not plant in pockets of amended soil surrounded by soil that has not received the same planting time treatment. If an existing soil does not seem adequate for these then remove and replace that soil entirely with a soil that does seem acceptable - or place the better soil on top, plant in that - without blending the two together.

>I have rich soil with much compost<

Last fall we collected soil samples from a local or

ganic demonstration garden and sent them out for

nutrient analysis; this garden had recently experienced

some soil and plant health problems. Every single

one of the sites that was tested came back with nutri

ent readings off the scale. In large capital letters the

report warned “DO NOT FERTILIZE THIS SOIL.” Th

e excessive addition of nutrient-rich compost to

this landscape contributed not only

to plant health problems but to

nutrient loading of adjacent natural

waters.

The Bottom Line

•

Ideal soils, from a fertility standpoint, are generally

defined as containing no more than 5% OM

by weight or 10% by volume

•

Before you add organic amendments to your gard

en, have your soil tested to determine its OM

content and nutrient levels

•

Be conservative with organic amendments; add onl

y what is necessary to correct deficiencies and

maintain OM at ideal levels

•

Do not incorporate organic amendments into

landscapes destined for permanent installations;

topdress with mulch instead

•

Abnormally high levels of nutrients can have

negative effects on plant and soil health

•

Any nutrients not immediately utilized by micr

obes or plants contribute to non-point source

pollution

https://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/soil-amendments-3.pdf

Thank you Embothrium, very helpful remarks and link. I just called my cooperative extension and am going to have my soil tested. The soil is currently a fairly sandy loam with little OM, and I just got a delivery of mushroom soil which is what I usually put in both my flower beds and vegetable beds. I'll check out what the bed is for the roses before I put them in to see whether or not any amendments are actually needed.

Lay the tops down and bury them in autumn? Do the DJ's not flower on old growth or do I cut them down at a certain time?

I am feeling discouraged about my zone. The catalog certainly said zones 5 and higher but I see that is not the experience of several rose gardeners here.

There was a general freezing off of roses not of the more hardy types here in 1990 merely because it got down to around 10 degrees F. or below - many modern roses were affected, as though there is a shared hardiness to 10 and if it gets colder than that these go back. The 'Don Juan' in the next neighborhood over may have even died, I don't remember now.

A modern climber like this flowers on new growth so you probably don't have to keep most of a tall top to get a good show. The 'Don Juan' a few houses away was actually free-standing, had not developed a climbing habit yet - probably many observers would have mistakenly thought it was a bush rose. I think it may be usual for this variety to not immediately shoot right up.

However you prune them you may actually have to dig the entire plant up every year in order to get each one completely horizontal and covered. If you Bing or Google using a successful phrase you can probably get pages about overwintering tender roses in cold climates.

Quadra at High Country Roses would be a better long term rose. Roses that are borderline for your zone always struggle. I had long experience doing this and nature always won.

I've tried growing Don Juan a couple of times and it has occasionally survived a year or two as a bush, but you're right that it's a long shot in zone 5. I'll list some tips below for keeping it alive that work for me, but I really wouldn't count on it being a climber even if it survives. Often roses that are marginally hardy might survive but need to regrow from the base every year, which makes it unlikely to climb even in a good year. I wouldn't use up your good climbing space by your trellises for something that isn't likely to climb for you at all.

Since you mention having good soil, I wouldn't necessarily add much when you're planting except mixing in some extra compost and maybe alfalfa hay into the native soil when you plant the roses. If you can't count on it climbing, you can pick instead the sunniest south facing part of your yard to give it the best chance at survival. My south side of my house is a virtual zone 6, and that's where I can overwinter tea roses, that aren't supposed to be hardy below zone 7. What I do is stand fully filled leaf bags (the ones in brown paper that people put by the curb) around the edge of the rose, like a down coat to hold in some heat and buffer the wind a bit to reduce drying. I either leave the tops of the roses open in the middle of the leaf bag sentinels, or fill in with some oak leaves or pine needles that I'm sure won't stay wet and mush down over the winter. You don't want any old leaves against the bark of a rose, since retained moisture is a problem for canker, particularly on the east coast. Some people wrap roses with burlap around chicken wire circles surrounding the rose, or stack pine boughs around the rose, but my way suits my lazy style.

Whatever you do, don't do serious protection till the ground freezes hard (I usually start when the temperatures average around 20). You're not keeping the roses warm, but protecting them from the worst of the temperature fluctuations and drying winds. At most you buy a zone of virtual temperature with this method, and that is sometimes cancelled if you have raised beds, if the soil is cooler for being raised. Depending on the size of the raised beds or pots, a small area can lower your virtual zone of protection like a sunny spot can raise it.

My recommendation is to get a reliably hardier rose for your climbing spot. Trust me, you'll have less heartache with Don Juan if you don't expect much of him, particularly for climbing. Florentina has a similar look and is rock-solid hardy, as is The Prince's Trust. Dublin Bay is also commonly available and has survived better for me. All of them are that dark red. If you can find AC Navy Lady (High Country Roses has it), I didn't expect it to be a climber but it's a breathtaking dark burgundy red and a prolific bloomer with very long canes that might climb a trellis. Florentina is a more reliable climber though.

Best wishes - and we'd love to be proven wrong by your stellar Don Juans, but it's best to plan modestly with that one in zone 5.

Cynthia

>mixing in some extra compost and maybe alfalfa hay into the native soil when you plan<

Do not do this, amending of planting hole back-fill was being seen by researchers to be counterproductive by the late 1960s.

Just want to mention that DJ won't climb here in zone 6a NY. It had bad winter dieback to the ground, now it has a few canes about 5' tall.

Thank you Cynthia, Sheila, Embothrium and Summer. All your information and experience is extremely helpful. I have to admit to being very frustrated that Don Juan is rated as zone 5 when so many know it to fail or struggle in zone 5. Will have to decide how to proceed. Thanks to each of you for prompt, informative replies, I'm very grateful.

Not to hijack this post, but.... nippstress, you're one of the few ever mentioning this wonderful rose, Navy Lady. I saw it a t the Columbus Park of roses in High heat and sun where it was fabulous. Beautiful bloom and the colour is extraordinary. It was much tall than its stated dimensions growing there to about 5'. I'm not sure when they were planted. They made a spectacular hedge with them. It's meant to be fragrant, but that seems not to be the case in high heat, or perhaps it was the time of day. A nursery in Canada also carried this, but I can't remember who.Thank you for mentioning this rose. Perhaps if it were better known, it would be more widely available in the States.

Tana, zone ratings just seem to cover a plant staying alive at all, not really whether the top will die back to the ground or not. The further detail of the top being hardy is so critical, yet you need to come to these forums to get these specifics.

For some reasons, DJ is widely available here in z 6 NJ. I got one years ago when I first started gardening from a nursery where the owner told me it is one of the best roses for NJ. Needless, DJ promptly kicked the dust. Now, I have a large Dr Huey, which does like our climate

The DR Huey is the root stock for the DJ I bought

Good point, Sheila, thank you. We are planning on some sort of shade climber for our chimney next spring. I will come to garden web's forum for guidance BEFORE we buy a vine rather than afterwards. I've learned a good lesson here. Also, for all the reading I've done, none of it compares to the actual experience of growers, versus sellers.

Thank you! Your 2nd & 3rd pic really capture the colour. You inspired me to spend some quality time with my old Mac that I can't post with, but houses the majority of my photo archive. I have to email pics to myself and use my other computer to post. (I know, just use my flashdrive.) Anyway, this rose is worth the trouble. I meant to post pics of her anyway on a thread about the Columbus Park of Roses, but never wrote that post in the end.

P.S. Your other roses are gorgeous, especially Quadra!

Wow, Vaporvac - that is indeed stunning. Those pictures alone would sell me on AC Navy Lady even without my own experience. Wonder how they got those branches to look so tidy, and how many bushes we see here. In my case, the canes would get so interwoven from one branch to the next as they flopped over each other that it would be hard to tell where one started and the other stopped.

Glad you liked the pictures - happy to enable you for more red roses!

Cynthia