Richelieu can sucker like bamboo on steroids. If you have patience, you're likely going to generate more Richelieu than you could ever want. Austin suggests planting the weaker varieties of his roses in groups so less than acceptable bush architecture and vigor can be hidden, resulting in a more satisfactory result. I doubt that once your two roses mature properly, you will want two planted together.

What Kim said. Additionally, TX zone 9b is not England.. Also, cl. Lady H grown in a warm climate does not remain a bush for long..

The solution for suckering roses is, of course, to get them budded and plant with the bud union well above soil level (where climate affords that)..

I am zone 7 now instead of 9, but thx for the advice, I will find a spot for them. What I had read about cl LH is that it tends to grow up more than wide so I was just curious.

I have a question Kim. I don't want to go OT, but it's not far off. My Richelieu does not sucker badly, so far nothing does that is suppose to . he's been is the ground now 2-3 years, but hasn't gotten really big, not like I thought he would, him or Charles de Mills. Could my clay soil be holding them in bounds? Is it only a temporary hold if it is? Also have never seen Cardinal Richelieu bloom.

If you started with tiny bands, they'd take a long time to grow up. I have 3 years old bands started tiny, and they are still small, less than 1' tall. I also have 1.5 years old Lady Hillingdon, it's still tiny, the cane is less than 0.25" thick and less than 7-8" tall. I think in my case they might grow bigger after 5 -6 years. It's better to start with bigger bands that have good roots.

Hi Alana, yes ma'am, heavy soil can help inhibit suckering types just as it can inhibit budded plants. When I planted Fedtschenkoana in the Newhall garden, I put it where the soil was heaviest and it helped prevent it from eating the hill. It suckered about ten by ten after three or so years, but never ran yards as I have seen it do in lighter soils. How "temporary" would depend upon just how heavy the soil is with the associated lack of drainage and ability to permit water to pass in to and through the soil. Planting them in pots of potting soil should, eventually, help produce larger, wider suckering plants, which should then have a much easier time colonizing some in your heavy soil. Once they have sufficient root balls and cane/foliage mass, I would expect they should flower well for you back there. Richelieu flowered reliably in the Granada Hills garden (now shown as on the cusp of 9b - 10a but which was a solid 9b in the early to mid 80s), while the ONLY way for me to obtain ANY flowering on Mills was to pack him in ice as has long been suggested for the more cold demanding lilacs. I grew weary of both of their obsession with eating the whole garden, so after several years, both were vigorously ripped out, potted and shared with any and everyone who would take the chance on one.

He is in pretty full sun. It starts early in the morning and doesn't hide behind the trees until 3 or so..so I guess he has afternoon shade. Or filtered shade in the afternoons.

Ok Thanks Kim you explained it pretty good. If we have a winter this year, maybe they will all bloom good next spring.. We did have a unusually mild winter last year. He should have a pretty good sized root ball. I grew him in a pot for 2-3 years potting him up as he grew before I put him in the ground. I guess I will just wait and see. Give him another year or two.

You're welcome, Alana. If you grew him up larger then planted him, he should be spreading suckers into the surrounding soil. They just haven't surfaced yet. When a plant like that fills the available root ball, they "sense" they should begin flowering (if climatically possible) to reproduce before they die. When spreading isn't possible due to physical factors, they "sense" maturity. You can force climbers to begin flowering much sooner in fifteen gallon cans than they otherwise would when planted in the ground. Flowering is a function of reproduction, which they aren't triggered to do as rapidly when their roots can spread farther and there are more resources for them to make use of. Limit those resources faster and they "mature" faster, hence flower sooner. Give more resources and they will make efficient use of them by growing instead of flowering. If you've begun with a small, immature plant, and the conditions aren't severe enough to harm or kill it, the plant will spend its time merrily GROWING instead of FLOWERING. Cramp it sooner and it will flower sooner.

I meant to also add, Alana, if you want to skew the chances in your favor for them to flower next spring, start dumping your ice maker on and around them this winter. You can, if you have the freezer room, make large ice blocks in old cleaned milk cartons or you can buy ice (crushed, block, cubes, whatever is easily and readily available) and just dump it on and close to the plants. "Chill hours" accumulate and as long as you don't have periods of sufficiently high heat to help negate them, you should easily be able to induce enough chill (even without "winter's help") to stimulate them to flower as long as they have enough plant mass to accomplish it. It's exactly what you are doing when you refrigerate your tulips and other spring bulbs which demand that treatment. As long as you're not receiving tremendous amounts of rain, you shouldn't be "over watering" them with the melting ice.

Thanks so much for explaining all that! Good Lord, I had no Idea, Maybe I should dig him up and put him back in a pot! Then plant the pot, like you said. Or more than one pot. Sheesh!

Nope! Leave him alone. Mulch with a good organic mulch which will break down, feeding the soil with Humic Acid which conditions the clay and whose organics feed other bacteria, fungi and earth worms, all of which will turn your heavy clay into a good clay-loam. You've had him in the ground for a season, so he's likely put out a season's worth of roots, which you will sacrifice when digging him up. Your best bet is almost always to play the hand you're dealt, where it's dealt. Unless the conditions are extreme or otherwise unsuitable for the plant's survival, adjusting the resources to fit the conditions often leads to faster results.