I believe Dr. Phil is going to be interviewing the brother.

I'm a true crime watcher, too. I will watch whatever I can about the case. I have not read much about it since the original stories came out at the time, it will be interesting to see what has been worked out since.

I always wonder about the Sabrina Eisenberg case, too. At first fingers were pointed at the parents, then they were ruled out. As terrible as it is to think that the parents were involved and covered it up successfully all these years, it is more horrible to think that someone crept into their house and snatched up their baby, never to be seen or heard from again--because that could happen to anyone. I think that is why we are quick to side-eye parents whenever one of these things happens. Well, that and the "parents" like Susan Smith and Casey Anthony.

Dr. Phil is having the son on his show on Sept. 14th.

Mtn wrote: PS I think it is human nature to be curious about human craziness and evil.

This explains me. I used to think it was me watching a train wreck. That's not it. It's me trying to wrap my mind around what would drive someone to do the horrible things they do. My friend is a social worker and she keeps me on the edge of my seat for hours. (She doesn't reveal names or identifying details, of course.)

Oakley, I can get caught up in a crime story in 30 seconds!

Who???

(Okay, yes, I know who. I'll only watch this sort of stuff if there's a good 95+% chance they know who dun it.)

I know the parents were ruled out by DNA, but something seems fishy. The ransom note is very strange indeed, considering JB was in the basement.

Yesterday I looked up their house hoping to see the inside because it's just beautiful and much bigger than it looks from the front, and pictures of JB with her injuries came up and I sat here and stared like I was in a trance.

I'll be calling a Psych. Doc today. lol.

I watched the A&E show Sunday night and I wish I would not have. The details about the little marks on her neck where she fought so hard to breathe truly disturbed me. I hope the renewed attention to the case brings a resolution and justice.

Whoa, I am glad to hear I am not the only one that likes to watch true crimes shows. I thought there was something wrong with me!

I personally know someone who is very highly trained by the government to "read" people. Even those that don't speak our language. A kind of human lie detector. He's amazing/scary good at what he does. I'd love to ask him to go through the interview tapes and get his take on them all, the mother, father and brother. But, I also know that he'd tell me he doesn't have time for those non-governmental kinds of things. Still, I can't help but wonder if the police there did use someone similar. But, without a confession or hard evidence, it would be difficult to prosecute. It does seem very suspicious to me, though.

I don't usually watch those shows as I find them disturbing. I always thought there was something wrong with any parent (including JB's) who would enter their young daughter in pageants where young girls are sexualized with the makeup, clothes, etc. but that doesn't make them murderers exactly. However, it might have made them culpable in some way if a sick person saw her and then killed her. IDK, that's just always been my thought on it. Didn't the mom die years ago from cancer?

She did die, two years before the new DA exonerated the family but I can't remember the exact year. The new DNA evidence did not match anyone in the family. But of course, there was family members' DNA present, too. It was also proven that an intruder could have entered the home. Maybe it's not either/or? Maybe family and an unidentified person was involved. We may never know but it would be such a shame for this child to have suffered so horrifically and no one ever be convicted.

OK, so who watched the first installment of Dr. Phil's interview of Burke? I predicted that there would be a cycle of approximately 45 seconds of interview and 8 minutes of commercial content (typical Dr. Phil), and that wasn't too far off. We're recording these so I'm not certain when the first one aired (yesterday?) but I think the second part is today.

We also spent two hours of our lives that we'll never get back watching the Dateline special on JonBenet's murder this past Friday evening. We know better than to get sucked into those things ... all of the titillating cliffhanger moments that cut to commercial but never really come back and tell you anything of substance. We know better. But we watched the whole darn thing anyway.

It had been a very long time since I even thought about this case (and especially John Mark Karr - remember him? I Googled him and apparently his bizarre behavior continues), but it's heartbreaking that this has never been solved. Based upon what the public has been told, I suppose many of us formed opinions (I've formed a partial opinion, not that it matters one whit), but the whole thing remains chilling and deeply unsettling.

I watched the first 2 Dr. Phil episodes. The 3rd airs next Monday.

Burke is an odd duck. His almost constant smirk/smile is a little unnerving.

It's a little hard to believe the crime could have been committed by someone outside the family. But I guess we'll never know.

I saw Dateline but not Dr. Phil. I will watch the second installment today. I'm home with strep throat, again. I'm miserable and sick of strep throat but I just can't decide to have my tonsils out.

off to google John Mark Karr, it's not ringing a bell.

Burke does come across as a strange young man. Not only the permanently-plastered smile, but he constantly moves his fingers. I tend to think that someone in the family, perhaps in a fit of rage, mortally wounded JonBenet by blunt force trauma, and as she lay dying they staged the whole kidnapper/intruder thing and finished her off with the garrote to hasten her death and cover up the truth.

It's hard not to consider that that's a parent covering up for the actions of a child.

In watching the footage and interviews, the whole family comes across as odd. There seemed to be a push towards "moving forward" that came just a little too soon after the baby of the family was brutally murdered. I also cannot fathom being a member of the family and not continuing to push and work towards finding out what happened. Burke claims he never even read the full text of the ransom note.

ETA: That JonBenet may have been (or was? has it been conclusively proven?) a victim of sexual abuse is just another sickening layer to this story. I can't help but wonder if she's viewed in the public eye as somehow "less than innocent" because of the very grown-up persona she presented in the pageant footage. I will admit that I have a hard time remembering exactly what she was - a sweet and innocent baby girl -- because the images that are burned into my retinas depict something quite different. I feel ashamed even writing that here.

I watched the documentary. It is mind boggling that someone could get away with such a murder, even twenty years ago. The whole crime is truly bizarre and has captured the attention of many of us. I've heard the the "Burke killed her" theory many times but I just don't think a nine year old has the cunning to pull off something like that. What's creepy (among many other things) is that someone out there knows, or knew, who did it. I really got the chills when one of the authorities said that children's beauty pageants are magnets for pedophiles. I've always thought they were entirely weird and don't understand why parents would subject children to something like that.

I think Burke hit her in the head with something - either the flashlight or the baseball bat that was found outside. I've read accounts that said JonBenet was strangled 45 minutes to two hours after the head injury was inflicted. That fits with a horribly ill-advised and sudden "plan" by John and Patsy to finish her off and concoct another story about what really happened, in order to protect Burke (who may have also been a very strange and unusual boy, possibly suffering from a medical condition such as Asperger Syndrome) once it appeared that JonBenet's condition was beyond hope.

I also cannot understand why any parent would subject a child to beauty pageants. Making them up like little Bratz dolls and parading them onstage before strangers? So creepy.

Something for sure didn't sit right with me watching Burke. Can't quite put my finger on what, but he does come across younger than his age.

Something I just heard on the upcoming interview next week on Dr Phil. Phil asks John Ramsey, why did they put the date of Dec 25 on her tombstone instead of the 26 when she was found unless he knew she died on Dec 25.

RoseAbbey, that struck a cord with me. Although my brother's death certificate says he died on May 5 (the day his body was recovered), he actually died April 29 when he jumped in the river. I made sure the correct date of death was on his headstone.

It is obvious that Burke has a disability and to just say he is socially awkward, seems odd to me. He was never formally diagnosed?

I certainly can see a nine year old taking a flashlight and hitting his sister.

But, it is all the rest that I can't imagine. The way she was found, it is horrifying to think that a parent would do this. And then if they did,to be able to keep up the charade as a family unit for years just seems highly unlikely to me.

"Something I just heard on the upcoming interview next week on Dr Phil. Phil asks John Ramsey, why did they put the date of Dec 25 on her tombstone instead of the 26 when she was found unless he knew she died on Dec 25"

I missed the Dr. Phil shows, but I did catch 2 of the other shows about her murder. That caught my eye when they showed the cemetery scene, the date of her death. I thought maybe they based it on the approx. "time of death" and they figured it to be late Christmas night....???

I have a question, so when the police did their search initially, they ( the police) never searched the basement area where the dad ended up finding her??

I dont understand why the police wouldnt search the whole house, yes the Dad found her not the police. It is all very strange.

I watched part of the dna show and I'm going with that. I also watched part of dateline (I think) but fell asleep until the very end when they said they thought it was a cover up. I guess I have less faith in the pd at that time. I never got pulled into the theory that the family did it. That does not mean I don't see them as odd or entitled.

I noticed that the father had a default grin too. Maybe it's something like a nervous laugh.

On the dna show, they were talking about how the dna database grows and someday they may be able to find a familial match if not an exact match. I wonder if people who get their dna tested get put into the database. When I investigated ancestry dna, they wanted to hook you up with dna relatives. I didn't want those connections. Is everyone's dna going into a common database?

I just don't know who may have murdered JonBenet, because none of the theories seem 100% plausible. But I agree with everyone who feels Burke is definitely more than just 'awkward.' Ida, I certainly hope his inappropriate facial expressions and odd mannerisms are simply due to a medical condition, such as Asperger's, like you mentioned.

I shudder to think of the alternative, which would be that he truly has the life experience of having been part of this crime. Although he may have actually blanked it out of his memory, his totally bizarre smile when being asked about the brutal murder of his little sister seems clearly psychotic, if he does not have a medical condition that can explain it.

I hope Dr. Phil will mention his inappropriate consistent smile, so we can hear if Burke indeed is even aware of how he comes across and what he attributes to be the cause. If he only says "I'm kind of shy or awkward" then I'm convinced that he's either in need of a medical diagnosis or in need of a prison sentence, hopefully, the former.

I don't/can't watch these shows. And it seems like every other show on tv is a true crime show. I won't fill my heart with the ugliness of mankind and the horrific crimes they commit. Personally I wish there wasn't an audience for this type of "entertainment".

Forensic science is fascinating to countless people, and I don't think finding it so means filling one's heart with the ugliness of mankind.

To each her own.

Cindy, I'm so sorry about your brother!

that is exactly why I like to watch those kinds of shows, how they solve or try to solve these cases. I especially find the cold cases fascinating and love when they do solve it and put the son(s) of bi*ch(s) in prison finally.

I greatly enjoy reading a thrilling murder mystery too! (Although sometimes they can make me quite jumpy, so I try to avoid them at bedtime.)

I'm not much of a reader but thrillers are my favorite genre in movies, and then comedies.

Dr. Phil today is a question & answer program on the JonBenet case.

He just explained that Burke's smile was nervousness & anxiety ... nothing more.

I don't have tv and can't stream dr phil (even if I could stand the guy) but I saw a clip somewhere of part of the interview and noted what others are saying about Burke's odd smile. I assumed it was just nerves, but also the guy was only 9 years old at the time. A little kid. A little kid raised by what I believe to be less than stellar parents (based on what they did to that little girl by exploiting and parading her around in those outfits, etc). Who knows how cuckoo things were in that house for him, too? So, what did he even understand about it all, what was he privy to after the murder, and how much can he even remember after 20 years of that 9 year old's experience? Plus, he must have knowledge that there are some people who view him as a suspect, which would add even more stress to being interviewed.

You're right. He was only 9; he didn't really understand much except that his sister was killed.

I don't get the beauty pageant mentality, but it's not fair to paint people who enjoy that sort of thing as exploitive. Lots of kids enjoy it too.

I saw the A&E program and agree that because of the severity of the head wound she couldn't have been strangled very long afterwards and have made those half moon nail scratches near the garrote.

I never formed an opinion back when this happened, seemed like every other day a new piece of info came out that made the previous theory unlikely. The parents (and son) are odd ducks, I suppose Patsy, having been a beauty contestant, thought nothing of having her young daughter follow in those footsteps but imo she was far too young.

What surprised me the most in the A&E program was law enforcement continually saying the DNA results (on the outside of her leggings and on her panties) was "irrelevant" - in my past few years of trial watching and true crime sleuthing, DNA is never irrelevant, kudos to the prosecutor's office for not bringing charges because they too seem to believe that DNA has great relevance in the criminal justice arena.

As someone said on TV recently, Burke probably would have cracked under pressure during questioning by the police since he was only 9. The bat incident wasn't recent, it was brought up to put suspicion on him. Which is sad since he's not even a suspect, even now.

He's a bit socially awkward, and smiles like his mom did, which makes him look guilty.

I'm still at a loss, but I do think there was a cover up between John and Patsy.

What I did notice, and this is a compliment, is how soft spoken the whole family is.

TV threads ... always good for a smile.

This was in my email. I need to watch it because there was no Ramsey DNA on JonBenet.

Burke did it

I deleted my above comment because now I'm back to square one until I watch this series. lol

I definitely think Burke did it and John and Pasty covered it up to protect him.

Well, I did end up watching the two part series on CBS and am now absolutely convinced Burke did it and the parents covered it up.

The CBS show pointed at Burke. Dr. Lee said it is not unusual for DNA to appear on garments from manufacturing & shipping. I did not hear - may have missed it - if her panties were brand new & not washed before she wore them? A couple of things don't make sense to me (all of it actually...) Did Burke accidentally hit her with a blunt object/the flashlite? How many of the other details did the parents assist in? The use of & tying of the garrote? Tying of her wrists? Or did Burke do all this & the parents covered/wrote the ransom note etc?

Good questions, kr. I don't think Burke tied those intricate knots. Had he killed her, he'd be a nervous wreck and that's when John and Patsy stepped in.

I have to watch the series tonight, for sure. DH never gets into these types of stories, but even he is interested.

I watched the CBS shows and I've watched the Dateline and some of the Dr. Phil. I don't know what to think, other than believing an intruder is the least-likely scenario. Not impossible, but very unlikely, due to the way the note was written, the way the body was discovered, and Burke's interviews shortly after the crime and 18 months after the crime.

Burke said he heard his mother come into his room and then go out of it looking for JonBenet, and then he heard her in hysterics (as he said in the interview afterward "going psycho") and just stayed in bed pretending to sleep or trying to sleep, rather than go try to find out what had happened.

Picture your own kids. You burst into your 9 year old's room and then just as suddenly depart. You are frantically crying and screaming, alerting your spouse and then placing a 911 call. Your 9 year old doesn't freeze with fear. They don't hide. They also don't come ask you what's wrong. They don't go find dad and ask what's wrong. They just stay in bed and wait.

The only reason I can think of for him to do this is either that he was used to the sound of adults "going psycho" in other parts of the house and did not find that unusual/alarming--or he knew what the problem was and was waiting to find out how his parents were going to handle it.

DNA evidence exonerated all family members.

Here's another thread ... http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4166881/the-case-of-jonbenet-ramsey#addAnswer

Exactly, Maggie! Even children much younger than nine will immediately jump out of bed and ask what's happening. Especially in the dark hours of the night. They'd be extremely spooked and want to be with mom and dad.

Picture your own kids. You burst into your 9 year old's room and then
just as suddenly depart. You are frantically crying and screaming,
alerting your spouse and then placing a 911 call. Your 9 year old
doesn't freeze with fear. They don't hide. They also don't come ask you
what's wrong. They don't go find dad and ask what's wrong. They just
stay in bed and wait.

The only reason I can think of for him to do this is either that he
was used to the sound of adults "going psycho" in other parts of the
house and did not find that unusual/alarming--or he knew what the
problem was and was waiting to find out how his parents were going to
handle it.

I disagree. I can easily imagine a 9 year old experiencing that and just wanting to put his head under the pillow and hope it all stops. I don't believe you can deduce anything from that. I know some adults who would do the same thing.

Actually, DNA did not exonerate the family. The crime scene was unsecured for several hours and contaminated.

The DNA issue is a perfect microcosm of what a mess this entire case is. :( Some people hear that the DNA evidence cleared the family (which is what the DA specifically said), and other people say the DNA evidence factually can not clear the family (which is what other well respected experts say). This entire case is a swirling mess of competing "facts" - which may or may not even be facts.

You have to drill down into such a granular level to really know what the heck is real in this case - and the majority of us don't have the time or interest to do that.

what about this guy?I'd forgotten about that man that came forward and said that he killed her! Whatever happened to that guy and why did they decide that he didn't do it? I think it was because the DNA didn't match. But now they are saying that DNA doesn't matter? If anyone was a whackado that guy was! He was crazy as the day is long!