Here's the full living/dining and kitchen area...

Welcome Sliver17! A pre-war apartment? Interesting - we don't see too many of those where I live (farm country, mostly).

So a few things.

Your Kitchen is a bit tight with the layout above. Your aisle b/w the peninsula and the bottom row of cabinets is only 39" wide - much too narrow in most cases. Are you the only person living there? If so, you might be able to get away with such a narrow aisle, but I think even then it's going to be less than desirable. This type of layout is also one that traps people inside and most people remodel to get rid of.

[FYI...aisles are measured counter edge to counter edge or to/from the things that stick out into the aisle the farthest - counters, appliance handles, etc. Counters generally overhang cabinets around 1.5" - so that means the 42" aisle you show is really 3" narrower - 1.5" on the peninsula and 1.5" on the perimeter - so it's 39", not 42".]

Unless it's going to be a true built-in refrigerator, you will need a 9" to 12" cabinet b/w the wall and the refrigerator to allow it to open fully.

Personally, I do not like cleanup sinks in an island or peninsula - it puts the dirty dishes front and center for all to see! In addition, if there are seats, those dirty dishes are also "in the face" of anyone sitting there - unless it's a very deep island or peninsula. Note, however, that having the cleanup sink in the peninsula is preferable to a range/cooktop!

You sound open to new ideas...so would you consider an "L" shape with a small island? It would open up the Kitchen nicely and make it more pleasant to work in.

Or, how about a "U" that utilizes both walls left/right with either a small (maybe 39" wide) island b/w the two walls or a peninsula (maybe 60" long) jutting out from one wall for a couple of seats.

(Oh, and no, sinks do not have to be centered under windows! In fact, it's often nicer to have the workspace in front of the window since most people spend more time in the workspace than directly in front of the sink.)

I thought I'd link to the Kitchen Design FAQ threads in case you haven't read them yet - if you have, ignore this post! :-)

These FAQ threads will help you to understand the comments you will be receiving.

Kitchen work zones, what are they?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

Ice. Water. Stone. Fire (Looking for layout help? Memorize this first)

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

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It looks like you have the following appliances & fixtures planned:

• Refrigerator - 36" wide. Is it a true built-in? Counter depth? Standard depth?
• Range - 36" wide
• Hood - I assume a 42" wide x 24" deep hood over the range (the recommended sizing over a 36" range)
• DW - 24" wide
• Wine cooler - 24" wide
• Sink - 30" wide. One bowl (that's what it looks like)?
• Microwave Drawer - 24"
• Warming Drawer - 24". Note that you probably don't want to stack the MW Drawer and the Warming Drawer (WD) above each other. The WD will be too low to be useful, if it even fits.
• Trash Pullout - it shows as 15", but only one bin will fit in a 15" trash pullout - you need it to be 18" to be able to fit two bins - one for trash & one for recyclables.

Anything else?

I like the idea of an L with an island, and I agree with buehl--the aisle is very tight. I'm sure she'll have some great ideas, but in the meantime, here's a quick rearrangement of the posted plan, starting with a wider aisle. I made it a galley, and put a tilt-out trash bin* at the end, to utilize that shallow space behind the cooler.

I added a pull-out between the fridge and wall--I'm thinking 6" might be wide enough, which should allow the DW and oven doors to be open at the same time, if necessary.

I labelled the drawer bases with suggestions for storage--the large drawer beside the range could be wider, or you can keep the slot for cutting boards and sheet pans. There are optional upper cabinets above the peninsula, for wine glasses and other kitchen items. If all the items stored there are pretty, glass fronts would be nice.

This is a rough estimate, and sizes/fillers will need to be fine-tuned:

*This type of tilt-out trash bin, but built in to match the cabinetry:

Good luck!

Mama Goose, I like your plan. I would make the cutting board cabinet a pull out pantry, too. Or make the first pull out pantry wider and get rid of the cutting board cabinet. This will buy more storage space both vertically and horizontally.

Thank you, homechef. It could be a cutting board pull-out. ;)

The pull-out between the fridge and wall could certainly be wider--I was trying to keep from overlapping the oven and DW doors, but how often does one need both at the same time? A wider pantry might be the better option, especially in a small kitchen.

ETA, this type of range would allow for a wider pull-out pantry, and includes it's own baking sheet slot (I assume):

In case anyone wants a blank slate to work with:

Thanks for the great feedback, everyone! I'm still looking through all of your comments, and want to give the U-shaped layout a try, but here's a modified version of what I had before, as well as an L-shaped version with an island:

I've increased the space between the two sides, so that even with the overhang I should have 42". I've also moved the cleanup sink away from the eating area, and added a prep sink (which may be too big). Overall, I like this layout, although I'm concerned about the use of space in the corners (maybe the range should be moved to the left?)

Other thoughts:

- I'm thinking I'll need the following upper cabinets:

1. Between fridge/range
2. From range to edge of sink counter
3. Middle of sink/edge of window to middle (edge?) of peninsula? More cabinets are great, but can they go over a 42" peninsula? If I do the L, I'm assuming they just go to the edge of the counter.

- I double-checked on the space I need for the fridge...I'm planning on the 36" SZ with French doors, built-in, so I need 38" of width, and just over 26" of depth. I believe that the handle will clear the wall on the left side.

- Not sure it matters in terms of layout, but I'm planning to use a 30x18 fireclay for the cleanup sink, and a matching one if I do a prep sink (perhaps smaller on an island).

Thanks again for all the help! Really appreciate it!

You're in a prewar condo? You need to check if you'll be allowed to move plumbing. I know in my condo, I wasn't allowed to so was limited with my sink. Same with the range.

Per your last two plans, how are you going to stand/work at the sink with the dishwasher door open? Put the dishwasher by the wine storage in last plan. I would give up base storage for an island...what are the aisle clearances..hard to read.

cpartist: Thank you for your note. The alteration policy does allow for plumbing relocation, but I still need to get Board approval. I'm hoping it won't be a problem!

rantontoo: Thanks...great point! The aisle clearances between counters (per buehl's advice) are now 45". On the left side there's only ~3', but I could push the island in if I need to. The idea is that with 1.5" counter overhangs, you'll still have 42". Here's a revised version of the island layout.

Are you a one cook or two cook kitchen? If a one cook...do you need the prep sink versus lost storage? I think 36 works (one person passing) on the left if nothing opens into the aisle and no overhang seating.

The overhang would only be on the living room side, so that won't affect the aisle to the left. Does having the prep sink really affect storage? I'm thinking that's where the pull-out trash cans would go either way. Not really sure how many people will likely be in there at any one time...probably one more often.

I have something similar to what Karenseb suggested. On the kitchen side of the peninsula, I have shallow shelves and voided the corner next to the (30" wide) sink. Trash is next to the range (sink side).

In your island layout, move the wine refrigerator to the island and slide the cleanup sink down, with the dishwasher on the end of that run. More space between sink and range is always a good thing, it allows for a secondary prep area, or primary if you decided against the island prep sink.

nancyjwb: Thanks for the idea! Here's my old version, along with your suggested version. I think your way is definitely better if we don't do the prep sink, since it provides more food prep area, but if we do the prep sink, I like having the cleanup area in the corner. I also like the wine being easily accessible to the living/dining area, but that's less critical.

Karenseb/sena01: Thank you for those layouts. These certainly represent an efficient use of space, but I'm concerned that if you have both a peninsula and appliances, etc. along the left side, the kitchen no longer has the open feel we're hoping to achieve. I could be wrong, though. Btw, sena01, what did you use to create the layout?

Thanks again to all of you!

I used a program named Home Designer Architectural.

Here are some renderings for the island option.

I like the plans with the fridge on the short wall, but I always like to put it close to the living areas. I understand wanting the open feel, so I think your last plan is a good one, and the wine cooler can open toward the sink wall, so that you have space for the extra stool.

Just wanted to mention that you'll need a 2-3" return panel for the DW, to support the countertop, plus overhang, so you'll need to move the DW over that distance if you want it to line up with the back edge of the island overhang. Notice on sena's last plan, she's included the return panel.

Are you certain that the fridge door will open far enough to allow you to remove the crisper drawer, for cleaning, if there is one on that side?

Thanks, all!

I did something weird to my model, so there's something stretched out on the bottom, but here's a revised layout, in which the sink is moved left, but not quite as far as has been proposed. This way the dishwasher isn't at the end of the run, and there's room for a 15" cabinet. I'm not sure if the trash should go there, or maybe under the prep sink. Also, I'm thinking the wine fridge can now face into the kitchen so that the sides of the island can just look clean.

Move it back like you had it before. It's too close to the corner and range. If one of you is at the clean up sink and another at the range you'll be banging into one another.

Also how large a wine fridge do you need? They make them as narrow as 15" and 18". You have it as a 24" x 24" fridge. Also how many seats do you need at the island?

Here's another version of the "U" shape:

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Work Zones & Workflow:

The three primary work zones (Prep, Cooking, Cleanup) are nicely separated with plenty of workspace in all three zones.

Two distinct Prep Zones

-- The primary b/w the main sink and range with a view out the window

-- The secondary on the island with the optional sink. I recommend a sink b/c that will make the island more useful, especially when others are helping in the Kitchen or if someone is cleaning up while you're trying to prep.

Workflow...follows the primary workflow when preparing a meal:

Storage/Refrigerator ==> Sink ==> Prep workspace ==> Range//Oven/MW

Storage

-- The Warming Drawer (WD) has two other drawers in the stack - usually one above and one below.

-- The MW Drawer has one drawer below it.

-- The Corner Susan can house pots & pans - it's a nice use and provides storage that puts everything you need right in front - simply turn the shelves until what you want is in front.

-- The Cleanup Zone has plenty of dish storage. The upper cabinets are all 15" deep so you should be able to fit even your deepest dinner plates and even some of your platters.

-- If you like the look, you could create a 30" dish hutch for your dish storage - with the 15" deep upper cabinet(s) extending down to the counter. I'd put a couple of drawers first and then glass doors (with seeded or other glass to hide any disarray in the cabinets). I included a picture of what it might look like at the end.

-- The pantry is nice and big (7' wide) and can house not just food, but other times such as small appliances. It could be even wider, if you'd like.

Other

Warming Drawer...there were several threads here and on the Appliances Forum a few years ago about warming drawers. When asked, the vast majority (and I do mean vast) when asked if they use their WD said they used them if they were (1) right next to or directly across from the range/cooktop and (2) were not too low to the floor. They didn't use them if they were (1) too far from the range/cooktop or (2) too low to access easily - and this included under double ovens. Those with WDs under a double oven stack rarely, if ever, used them - other than as additional storage.

Placing your WD under your MW drawer, if even possible, would put your WD too close to the floor to easily use.

Edited to add:

Sink wall...the cabinets are 3" deeper than standard. Base cabinets are 27" deep and uppers are 15" deep. If you cannot get deeper base cabinets or their not in the budget, then you can pull standard depth (24") cabinets out 3" from the wall for the same effect. Most cabinet lines offer 15" deep uppers - even 13" or 14" would work, although I really like my 15" deep ones (over standard depth bases & counter).

This means the counters are also 3" deeper than standard - 28.5" deep. Those 3" provide a surprising amount of workspace as well as provide more room behind the sink.

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Zone & Workflow Map:

Dish Hutch Example:

Thanks again for the great feedback!

cpartist: I think you're right that it makes sense to move the sink farther from the range to create a bit more space. I would love to have 4 seats at the island, but that doesn't seem possible if it's going to face the living area. I'm okay with a six-foot island.

buehl: I love the u-shaped plan, and think we'll end up going with something like that (see below). I think we'll end up making the back counter 28" deep as you suggested, with just moves the island out a couple of inches. I realize we only end up w/ 39" between the sides of the island and the pantry area/sink, but I can live with that. As you can see, I left the range along the back wall, as I like the aesthetics of it. We still need to work out the rest of the storage details, but I think this is pretty close.

Thanks again...this has been enormously helpful.