Arcy

There are a ton of people without insurance. Obamacare does not cover those who have very low incomes, in many places. In addition, even with insurance doctor visits and medication are still subject to deductibles.

There are people who have Obamacare insurance but the deductibles and copays are so high that it is not meaningful insurance for anything except a severe illness or injury. I'm not dissing Obamacare although it certainly has its weak points, I'm saying that many are not covered.

Medicaid might cover some of those people especially the children, but not all.

I'll agree to pharmaceutical reform. I got to see insurance from the inside and for a score of years, and they are struggling as it is. Put them out of business and what will be left with?

ETA: Insurance has been reined in by HIPAA and ACA. They're lucky to stay afloat now. Back in the 80s, they were the largest money makers in the world. Not so now. That would be energy companies and car makers.

...health care reform needs to include insurance companies and pharmaceutical firms...

Won't happen so long as the lobbyists for those companies continue to write the legislation...

My daughter's insurance covers only one per year. When kids are in school, one has to be left with the school nurse, so one out of pocket and one partially covered by insurance. We help them pay for them because it's a hardship for their young family.

Before the pens came out we had to use a syringe and a vial of liquid epi. That's still a viable option to paying the ridiculous price of the epi pen. I have seen an alternative pen advertised.

http://www.wgrz.com/mb/news/local/first-responders-find-alternative-for-costly-epipens/305259463

Very interesting article on the option that first responders are choosing.

http://www.winknews.com/2016/08/23/cheaper-epipen-alternative-one-does-exist/ Cheaper alternatives do exist.

Adrenaclick is the name of this one, very similar to delivery provided by epipen as the article details.

A brand new one should be coming on the market soon. There's a lot of various injection pens for diabetics I don't know why there aren't many for epi. The massive raises the company big wigs have given themselves is disgusting and should be embarrassing. Those kinds of jumps in numbers should bring lots of eyes on them and what is going on there.

http://fortune.com/2015/07/21/epipen-alternative-medicine/

Is the use of these widespread?

I didn't look at your link rhizo, but if it is Auvi Q, sanofi had withdrawn it! Danggit!

There are epinephrine injectors, but if I was a parent with a child that had allergies that might require epinephrine I'd want to have the Epipen and maybe a second Epipen or vial delivery system as backup.

The difference between 3 seconds and a longer delivery system like 10 seconds can be significant when one is dealing with a frightened child who does not want to remain still. In many settings away from home, such as school and camp, the nurse has ONE pen and it has to work, if the child wiggles or jerks away and gets none or a partial dose, it's not a good thing.

All epinephrine delivery systems are not equivalent. Of course for that very reason the vial system has by its very nature a back up if the vial has multiple doses, but the problem is that there are situations where truly one is racing against the clock, because several minutes have already been spent getting the nurse or whoever is going to administer the medication, epinephrine, and child all in one place and the Epipen has the fastest delivery.

This situation is not ridiculous, it's pure greed. I cannot understand those who support the "right" of very large companies to charge what they want, but there are millions who do. Until insurance companies (sorry, Rob,) are taken out of the process, big pharma is forced to deal, and we go to single-payer, medical prices will remain much higher than they are in other parts of the world.

Rob, my wife did usability testing on the design of the device that for a time was a competitor, which was subsequently released to the market under the brand name Auvi-Q. There apparently has been some issue where in some instances those devices did not correctly deliver the proper dose, so at present they have been recalled and are not available on the market.

The last time I looked into it, I think you could purchase a vial of epinephrine and a number of disposable syringes for something like $20 for several doses. I'm sure the company selling the pens gets the medicine for much less than that. Furthermore, they don't even manufacture the devices, they contract that out to someone else. All they do is set the price, and reap obscene profits.

They didn't even have a hand in designing the device. They merely bought the license to distribute the devices from the previous company.

Congress is making noises about calling they company officials in to explain the huge price increases, but even if they do that, our do-nothing Congress will do nothing. What's the point of asking the officials to explain anything? The explanation is obvious, it is price gouging. The most reasonable solution is to place the company officials in jail, until both the company and the officials themselves disgorge their ill-gotten-gains, to be refunded to all purchasers since they purchased the license to sell the devices.

Yeah, I saw Bob. When I was sitting in the waiting room at my doctor's office a few minutes ago. I was actually in allergy testing, the group who doses my epipen. I was going to ask for it. Dang. On the upside, my BP was 101/53. Cool.

Adrenaclick is the name of the one in the article I linked, very similar to epipen

My dh needs epipens...thought this was interesting:

Members of Congress are in an unusual position as they demand an
explanation for Mylan NV’s 400 percent price hike for the EpiPen and
focus attention squarely on its CEO: Heather Bresch. If lawmakers follow
the usual script, Bresch could get called up to Capitol Hill next month
to explain her company’s justification for raising the price on the
life-saving allergy shot. But that could be awkward, since she’s the
daughter of Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia. While
Bresch’s family ties may mute the ire of some lawmakers, others are
already asking the company about taxpayers having to foot the bill for
these price increases.

As far as I can see the Dems have screwed most of us with health care and rising drug costs.

Did you just wake up from a long nap, ingeorgia?" Healthcare and drug costs have been rising for years and years. During years of presidents and Congresses controlled by both parties.

Thanks ingeorgia! It's fantastic to see the clear, undeniable link.

What do Democrats have to do with the extraordinary cost of developing and bringing pharmaceuticals to market?

I checked our computer at work with the price. We are still charging the same price as we always have. One of our pharmacy technicians said she checked too when she heard the price sky rocketed earlier. There is another epi pen which we carried when there was a recall on the epi-pen. It actually talks to you so you do the injection correctly. I see more doctors prescribing that one in the near future. We haven't heard of any price increases for the epi-pen here yet.

I believe when current stock runs out, the new pricing would kick in. If they've got 100 units purchased at $50, they wouldn't automatically increase the price of those just because new units would cost $500.

Why do you pose questions so often snookums? Are they rhetorical?

What's wrong with posing questions?

A statement was made. I'm asking about the reasoning. Pretty simple.

You just asked two questions, I might add, so you shouldn't have any problem with that.

What is your point, btw? lol.

They also make 'dummy' Epipens, I believe the company used to send them out on request, so parents/nurses can practice and more importantly feel comfortable when the time comes to use the real thing.

" the Dems have screwed most of us"

To turn this thread into a Hot Topic type political free for all brawl would in my opinion take away from the information and concerns here.

Many of us have grandchildren, and for some reason some severe allergies such as peanut allergies are increasing. These pens and similar delivery systems are very important to our families.

well the prez of the company took hone a healthy 18 million raise, and omg her dad is congress....at one point the company did donate to schools everywhere (they are required to have them) but stock holders are dumping their stock and it fell today....

Exactly susanjf-_gw is someone had bothered to READ what i pasted.... and I seeeee you are aptly named Elmer Fudd. Also, I know people who do not have large incomes by any means and had to get obamacare. Oh yeah, a 12K deductible and no one around here accepts it anyway. But the monthly is cheaper than the fine. That is why I say the Dems screwed us, remember "we have to pass it before we know what's in it" and "if you like your current insurance you can keep it". sure.

'omg her dad is in Congress'

Daddy's Little Girl is a 46 year old CEO of a global enterprise who Fortune Magazine named as one of the most 50 influential women in business.

I'm very glad Obamacare was put into place. Before that, those $6000 annual out of pocket expenses were automatically included in my premium - whether I needed health care or not. Co-pays and some other deductibles were on top of that.

Happy for you snookums2 but not for all the people who lost on that one.

According to one article, the price of EpiPens jumped 6 times its normal price of a short time ago. In my opinion, this is a case of gouging. Not long ago, a similar thing happened to a drug that treated a disease that was of low occurrence in the population. What happened was that an investor bought the drug and hiked the price.

Our government could combat such behavior by removing its patent protection in blatant cases thus opening the drug to generic drug makers. However, this may dilute patent law and lessen drug developer's efforts to work on drugs for rare diseases. Such a move could backfire because generic manufacturers might not step forward to certify and make drugs that have low sales volume.

It is unfortunate that greed can make life miserable for folks who desperately need the drug. In the EpiPen case, it could jeopardize the lives of those who can not afford the cost.

I would like to invent a drug to deal with people who have been so brainwashed by political rhetoric that they have essentially become zombies of the cults.

Me too cynic, me too. LOL

Another (from this morning) NYT Epipen article

NYT Epipen Article

I was wondering when people would say something lucille, as I've noticed the price for the last couple of years. I just assumed most people either A) are talking about it because it's in the news or B) have finally hit the wall with price. Anyone who has been buying it, had likely already noticed.

At least part the reason for increases and overall high prices for pharmaceuticals is because they have been doing way too much advertising on television. I vote for stopping that.

Milan CEO is still defending the costs on the news tonight. I would say a raise from 4.5 million to 18 million is uncalled for! GREED!

I have to carry an Epipen. In 2014 it cost me $25 with my insurance deductible. In 2015 it cost $200 with my insurance deductible.

insurance said cost of Epipen went up.

Kathy G in MI

They claim anyone can get a coupon for a big discount. Have you looked into this? Even with insurance. For some they supposedly offer free pens.

Just heard people are crossing the boarder to buy them in Canada for $250.00 instead of $1,200 here in America.

Paw, list price is $608. It's bad enough, no need to inflate the price. I don't want to go to Canada. I want our system fixed, and for price gouging to end.

ETA: if HIPPA and ACA can rein in insurance, surely, they can rein in big Pharma. Punish either one too much, and we'll having nothing though.

Rob, I did not exaggerte anything, Thank You.

ABC6 news:

Parents consider options after sticker shock of EpiPen cost:

Some parents are struggling to foot the staggering bill for
medicine their children can't go without.

Sticker shock on EpiPens has one family considering a
desperate measure.

The EpiPen maker is now offering discounts after backlash
from price hikes but it's not enough to keep some from going across the border.

Amy Nilsen said her husband may pay a visit to a pharmacy in
Canada next week after they just found out their daughter's prescription costs
$1200 for a two-pack.

Amy's daughter has never had to use her EpiPen but they
don't want to risk not having one.

"We have to have it we take it with us every day,"
said Amy Nilsen.

Every 18 months, Amy refills the life-saving prescription
for her daughter Libby.

"She's had a peanut allergy ever since she was two
years old so we've just seen EpiPen go up and up and up until now $1200 is outrageous," said Amy
Nilsen.

The cost hasn't concerned Libby just whether she remembers
to have it on her.

"I just don't even think about it I just think of it as
something I need if there were an emergency," said Libby Nilsen.

The sticker shock has Amy scrambling for a better option.

Her husband travels for business and a trip to Canada is now
on the table.

"He can easily slide across the border I think he said
for a two pack it's about 250
dollars," said Nilsen.

Dr. Mimi Ghosh with OSU Wexner Medical Center treats adults
with allergies.

"It's not something you should play around with it's
not optional medication for a minor condition it's basically the only treatment
for someone having a reaction to something they ingested or inhaled," said
Dr. Ghosh.

Allergy experts at Nationwide Children's Hospital say the
epinephrine is often good for several months after the EpiPen expires and to
use it if that is the only option.

"If you can to have that full strength on hand and if
it's easier to have one versus two or three and just make it convenient we
recommend getting one good one instead of two or three that are less potent
just because you never know what the next reaction is going to be like,"
said Dr. Ghosh.

Dr. Ghosh says a trip across the border is controversial.

"They can go up there they can get things online you
don't really always know what you're getting you don't know the clinic you're
going to you don't have a relationship with the pharmacist it's just a lot of
unknowns," said Dr. Ghosh.

Dr. Ghosh hopes a generic drug hits the market sooner than
later but said that's one reason why families are seeing the price hike.

She recommends families seek out coupons or discounts from
their doctors.

Amy said coupons and discounts are not an option for her
family.

"They have a monopoly on it right now and it's
unfortunate that they feel like they can gouge parents," said Nilsen.

Epipen News Article

I saw it on the news last nite as well. (Canada doesn't have the same price jump as those in the U.S.)

The spokesperson said that they will give a $300 rebate to those who don't have any coverage; that have to pay the price out of their pockets.

I assume it's the press getting carried away, not you :)

_________________________

She was referring to the fact that after Mylan, intermediaries
including wholesalers, retailers and pharmacy benefit managers add to
the ultimate cost, and hence can increase the amount paid by patients.

"That $608 is a list
price," Bresch said. "What Mylan takes from that, our net sales is $274,
so $137 per pen," she said, referring to the fact that EpiPens are sold
in packages of two devices.

This is in line with that Pharmaceutical crook last year who increased the cancer drug by 100's of percentage points.

A lady on the news last nite has about 6 epi-pens on hand. Some for the grandparents, 2 that she carries at all times, some in the backpacks for school.

New coupon offer.

https://www.epipen.com/en/copay-offer

'The largest group of EpiPen users, accounting for an estimated 70 percent of the total, have commercial insurance. These patients usually are responsible for co-payments. If their insurance policy has a high deductible that has not yet been met, patients might have to pay the full price for EpiPen.

For these patients, Mylan is offering a savings coupon worth up to $300, which can be obtained from the prescribing physician or the EpiPen website. Previously it had offered a coupon worth up to $100.

So patients with co-payments of less than $300, which means most patients, would have no out-of-pocket cost if they use the coupon.

If an insured patient is paying full price because of a high deductible, the coupon will cut the cost in half, to about $300 from $600.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/26/business/epipen-mylan-price.html

'Happy for you but not for all the people who lost on that one.'

ingeorgia, can you please provide some examples of people who made out worse than what some of us had to pay previously, including how much they have lost?

'questions such as you've just posted. There is no answer that won't elicit a response from you that ingeorgia can "win". That is, it's a set...'

'questions just like this. You've no real interest in finding out what she truly means, or helping you understand at all.'

Excuse me? What is your problem rob333? It is a very simple question, btw.

I would guess that you can not actually answer questions, only repeat what you have been fed which is why you object to people asking questions or to providing information that supports a statement.

It is a legitimate question to her response to my post. Your responses to my asking questions during a discussion is absurd. They are not only legitimate questions but a very small proportion of my posts - not 'so often'.

I think you hang on Hot Topics too much where there can be only one side to things. Where anything outside of that must be stifled - because the goal and purpose of those discussions is only that of self-serving agendas, and to win.

Please don't project your own mindset onto others.

The CEO of the pharmaceutical company has admitted that she didn't expect parents to have to pay the high cost of the pens. She thought the cost would be the insurance companies'. So she admitted that the price was raised, but with insurance companies supposedly paying it, she didn't care. Geesh! Does she not know that premiums increase because of costs like this? It's still greed on her part.

NYT Article