Words of a song once very popular song come from the book of Ecclesiastes 3:1 "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven". Essentially, it means there are good times to do certain things and not so good times. We don't plant corn in the fall because it won't have time to mature before it's killed by frost. Repotting of your jade is also best done in the most robust part of the growth cycle, which has been on the wane for very near 2 months - and that doesn't change because someone doesn't recognize the difference timing makes, believe there is a difference, or just ignores it. You're just about at the dividing line between what would likely be prudent vs marginally imprudent. E.g., I wouldn't do anything in the way of pruning my containerized trees now unless it was a very light pruning because the plants need lots of energy reserves going into winter - even the ones that go dormant. I think if you were going to do a lot of root work and pruning of the top, I'd wait until next June. If you're just going to bare-root, separate the plants and pot them individually, your plants aren't likely going to get hurt by it. There's always a lot to ve said and a lit of vitality to be gained that wouldn't otherwise be there when changing to a more appropriate medium at the earliest opportunity that doesn't see the grower working against the plant's natural rhythms.

Al

^ I agree with Al. From what I learned (and I learned the hard way) Jades thrive in a fast draining mix. I would repot now if it's in a heavy soil, but don't trim up the roots or prune the top. Separate the plants and make sure all the old heavy soil is removed from the roots. This will help ensure your roots won't get to wet and rot.

I should also say, that I once thought my Jades were in a fast draining soil. It was made of regular potting soil, course sand, perlite, and rocks. I think there was too much soil and sand. It became too compacted. I also didn't repot for three years. It ended up with root rot, and I barely watered it.

Anyway, I've learned that the roots need to breathe, and take water in through the air. The mix I just bought is equal parts calcined clay, bits of pine bark, and turface. From what I understand, the pine bark holds all the water and the roots can absorb from the mix when they need it, without being suffocated by it. I'm just learning myself, and I've only repotted everything in this new mix 5 days ago. - but, here's a link that another forum member sent me about their positive gritty mix experience.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3801279/gritty-mix-working-pretty-good

No plant appreciates a medium that supports a saturated layer of soil at the bottom of the pot, unless you're comparing it to a medium in which the saturated layer is taller. That saturated layer deprives roots of the oxygen roots need to function normally and efficiently, so the less saturation - the better. The gritty mix doesn't have or depend on that soggy layer of soil at the pot bottom for its water retention because there is no soggy layer if the ingredients are size-appropriate, because the type of water that occupies potential air spaces between soil particles isn't the kind of water retention you want. Much better is to have all the spaces between soil particles full of air, from top of the soil column to the very bottom, and all the soil's water held in a microscopic film on the surface of soil particles, at the interface where soil particles contact each other, and INSIDE of porous soil particles like bark, Turface, calcined DE, pumice, Haydite ........ Soils that incorporate that concept are very difficult to over-water, almost impossible if the grower uses reasonable judgment. Grit or other nonporous particles are usually added to allow you to adjust water retention to suit various plants and growing conditions by varying the ratio of porous to nonporous particles.

Al

Thank you. I was weighing the benifits of getting them in a fast draining to prevent potential rotting over winter, versus possibly over stressing them out and giving them little time to recover.

It's not like it's outdoors and it's a rose bush in the ground.....then you would be closer towards the end of pruning because you wouldn't want new growth and frost in the fall.....outside.

Sarah - the point I was making is, when it comes to repotting, timing runs the gamut from very poor to poor to do it only if you are forced to, to ok, to good, then better and best. Right now is somewhere between do it if you must and OK, with the determining factor being how much top or bottom mass CCP intends to prune. That we don't plant corn in fall was simply to illustrate there are reasons to do things and not to do things at certain times of the year - it really didn't have anything to do with frost and the jade plant. Repotting too late in the summer doesn't give the plant enough time to recover and leaves it low on energy reserves going into winter with no hope of rebuilding reserves unless it's under powerful lights. That means a plant with limited defenses, making it more susceptible to insects and diseases than it might have been if the repotting was put off until summer when energy reserves are at peak and several months of recovery time are in the offing. IOW, timing really is important.

Al

Al- I realize it didn't have anything to do with frost and the jade plant. The point I was making, is that if someone buys a plant and they want to put it in a different pot they can do it because it's not like following rules for planting outside.

Waiting 7-8 months to re pot something because it's "not good for a plant" is just too restricting.

I appreciate the in depth information. That is why I asked. I want to learn as much as possible.

Well then I guess it depends on whether you plan to be a botanist or have fun with your plants. I had more problems with plants when I first worried about every little thing I did and what rules to follow.

Now, every day I wake up and see my plants is like Christmas because they are fun. If I were to worry so much about every little thing so that I had a bunch of rules to follow it would be stressful to have a plant, especially if it didn't work out. Water when they need it, feed them when they need it, trim them when they need it and if it needs more light, move it to more light.

No, it has nothing to do with choosing between having fun and acting in a manner that's in the best interest of your plants/being a botanist; and it's important to remember I'm talking about routine repotting as a regular part of someone's care regimen.

Most growers tend plants because they have a nurturing bone or they like them to look attractive because they serve as living decorations or even pieces of art. The second paragraph you wrote immediately above illustrates that you arrange the care you give your plants so what you administer is in the plants' best interest. You don't water impulsively, and I'm sure you don't fertilize impulsively, and if it's in a plant's best interest, you move it to good light. You set your parameters more or less automatically based on what you KNOW. If you know it's best to repot a jade in Jun or early Jul, how does that spoil your fun or take away from your enjoyment? Outside looking in, I would think that realizing you're acting in your plants' best interest by repotting at the most appropriate time would ADD to the satisfaction of nurturing, not detract from it; and, if appearance was the primary reason for attending plants, repotting when it best serves the plant gets a big thumbs up there, too.

Knowing it's best to repot any plant inside of a given window that spans 2 weeks to 2 months in its growth cycle is probably much less worrisome to the average grower than knowing it's best to put gas in the car before you run out, or to put on your make-up before you get to where you're going. The knowledge and acting on it is another of those many things that elevates the plane on which we interact with our plants. All knowledge has the potential to do that, and for almost all growers, it's rewarding. If you find that stressful, you already understand innately it's not an unbreakable rule or a duty. You're still as free to repot whenever you wish, as am I or anyone else. The difference is, a large fraction of growers will incorporate the knowledge into their care regimen so they are doing their repotting when it levies the least amount of stress on their plants. If knowing you're repotting when it burdens the plant with unnecessary stress is worrisome or troublesome in any way, the fix is as easy as establishing the same type of parameters that prevent you from over/under watering or fertilizing.

As it relates to fun, ask yourself if it's more fun to repot w/no consideration given to the effect it has on the plant, or to plan your repotting session to coincide with the part of the growth cycle when the plant tolerates it best. To me, based on what I know and in consideration of what I've observed resulting from more than a few repots, the answer is very clear. That anyone is free to do what they want doesn't need to be sold, it's a given; but, that WHEN we repot doesn't or shouldn't matter is going to be a hard sell because the facts and reason just don't support it.

Al

Well I'm not trying to sell anything, and I'm not a professional grower, I just like plants. But I went through the "what soil, what fertilizer, when to water, did I water too much, did I water too little, does it have bugs, should I move it?..." phase, and that was not fun. I wanted to throw out all my plants because it was getting to be cumbersome. And I lost several because I was too attentive.

I realized then that every person's situation is unique and you cannot have a blanket answer for which soil, fertilizer, watering, light, etc. Debates online about these topics are good because you learn other people's experiences, BUT there really isn't a "one size fits all". There are lots of stories where people found their new idea worked, and they share it with others.

I think it does have a lot to do with fun, otherwise this is a mundane hobby, becoming a chore. Regarding knowledge, just because I know something or have heard something about plants does not make it set in stone for my hobby.

Hi Al,

I'm new to the forums and reading some of your in-depth posts on soil and good growing practices. Jumping on the "too late" question, what if the plant extremely root bound? I just got a monstera adansonii with roots literally bursting out of the plastic pot it came in. It seems like it surely needs to be repotted and root-pruned, but is it just too late in the year to do that? Should I just "pot-up" until the spring and do pruning and repotting then?

Sarah - as I said, you're completely free to make any choice you like, but that doesn't change the fact that there are good times to repot and poor times to repot. What anyone does with that info is up to them, but leaving growers thinking it doesn't matter isn't in the grower's or their plants' best interest. Repot your plants in Jan or Feb if you like - no one will care, but you can be sure your plants will.

No one is presenting the concept as "one size fits all", as you can clearly see in my reply to Marlene below. It is a simple fact though, and IS carved in stone, that when you repot makes a significant difference. That really can't be debated. So, if when you repot makes a difference, it's completely logical to assume that there are good and not good times to repot (or it wouldn't make a difference).

I repot hundreds of plants every year and I work hard to repot them on a schedule that subjects them to the least amount of stress - because I've seen the significant difference being just a week or two early or late (for some plants) can mean. Deciduous plants first, conifers and broad-leaf evergreens second, conifers third, and tropicals/subtropicals (as in houseplants) mid-Jun to July 4th. Fortunately, houseplants aren't as critical as other plants and afford a larger window of time that might be considered the best time to repot.

Marlene - there is no good reason not to repot a plant out of season when the plant is declining and its survival until a more appropriate time to repot is in doubt. That's especially true when the timing is marginal, like it is right now. Is it the best time to repot? No. Should you repot? I would. If you ask me that in 2 months, I'd say cut the bottom of the root mass off and pot up SLIGHTLY - as into a pot 1" deeper and 1" larger in diameter - and plan your repot for next June.

If we assume an imaginary grower wants his/her plants to realize as much of their potential as possible, inflicting unnecessary stress of any kind is always going to be counterproductive. As repotting/root pruning relates to regular periodic maintenance, it simply makes no sense not to plan repotting for that span in the growth cycle when the plant is best able to handle and recover from the stress unless it's an emergency.

Al

Al- I wasn't looking for another lecture. Thx

Hi Marlene!

I am new too and really enjoy all that I am learning here. Your plant is absolutely beautiful!!!! Good luck with it.

I find the above exchange between Al and Sarah interesting because I belong to a different community regarding a different subject that I am pretty knowledgeable about and well known for in real life. I hesitate to post differing information because I don't want to step on any toes, yet I am passionate about the subject and want to share my knowledge. When I post differing opinions or information I really don't mean to disrespect others and it is in no way personal towards the other person and it does not mean I have any negative feelings toward the other poster.

I really didn't think Al's comments were meant to make Sarah look bad or was personal in any way. I appreciate Sarah sharing her personal expierience and how she handles things, and also appreciated Al's in depth knowledge.

Thanks for the help, Al!

Thanks chippedchinaplate! :D

Sara - I'm not lecturing you, I'm disagreeing with your stance and offering support for my position. I'm not trying to change your mind or frame you in an unfavorable light, I'm simply pointing to a better way than your more laissez faire approach. In view of the fact the original question focused on the timing of repotting, it would seem the entire thread has remained on topic, even though it has turned to generalizations re timing rather than focusing specifically on timing for CCP's jade. The discussion was actually broadened to allow a response to the fact you've "never waited for certain times of the year to re-pot or change something up if you wanted". There is nothing wrong with you taking that approach if you choose, but others might be interested in the consequences of such an approach or a better way that avoids those consequences. The reason to wait until the most opportune time to repot except in emergency situations is pretty clear - it saves the plant from unnecessary stress, but the reason to ignore any impact inopportune timing of repotting sessions has on the plant isn't very clear. I can't think of even 1 good reason ........

Al

Sara, I don't understand your question.

I was surprised at your response to Tapla, you seemed to take it personally that his answer differed from yours. His answer did not take anything away from yours or your expierience.

It did make me uncomfortable since I started this thread and it turned into an argument. I don't know what the history is here. I have read for a while and thought I had a good feel of the community. It seems like I inadvertently bought up a touchy subject. I hope this is a one off. This is a houseplant forum and the last place I would expect to find hostility. I don't want drama, I have enough of it in my life. That's why I enjoy my plants so much.

Well, I can attest that all of the detailed info shared on this forum by Al (Tapla) and others has made tending to my plants SO much more fun.

I don't always follow everything I've learned strictly, but I certainly am glad that I have more understanding of why I used to occasionally lose house plants, and why I could not keep cacti & succulents alive to save my life.

The only bad part is that now that I don't kill any, I'm.starting to run out of room!

Chippedchinaplate, thank you for posting this. I loved reading through it, and I'm sorry it's getting trolled. We don't usually argue.

I felt like you were supporting your statements with facts. I appreciate the information.

A trend exists lately that any disagreement is taken personally. I've disagreed strenuously with various things before but have changed my mind about many of them after someone had taken the time and made the effort to explain things I didn't understand or know yet. On some things, I feel more strongly the same way I always did.

Never think you know everything, keep your mind open to finding what works in your location with your style of care. Interpreting others' anecdotes/advice still trips me up sometimes, and often variable x is discussed when it's really variable Q that's causing the symptom of discussion. So may words can have a WIDE range, like low light, moist, dry, drainage, and most notably, thrive. Some plants I used to think were thriving I later realized they were only staying alive.

"Some plants I used to think we're thriving I later realized they were only staying alive."

a pretty thought provoking statement that is true to life.

NOW I'll change the subject, prompted by Tiffany's observation about thriving/surviving. One's perception of the condition of their own plants or the plants of others is highly subjective. I've heard it said so many times that my mother/grandmother/aunt/neighbor/friend .......... has a ______ (insert plant name) that's ______ (insert plants age - usually over 20 years) years old and has never been repotted/fertilized/potted up/root pruned/divided (choose one) and it's in perfect health. It might be obvious the statement could not be true, but how do you disagree w/o someone feeling like you called them a liar or saying in essence, "You don't know what you're talking about"? Still, it's better for the forum if someone (or several) give voice to their disagreement and furnish reasoning to support why the statement can't be true. Much is learned from spirited disagreement and it allows readers to consider which information they would rather trust.

Al

I trust everyone's anecdote, I'm sure they saw what they saw and are describing it according to their interpretation of the terms used. The tricky part is deciding if and how it applies to me/my plants, and/or if it fits my definition of thrive or whatever the term in question is.

Here's a good comparison I think. I snipped tiny bits of plants and sprouted some leaf babies to put in these micro pots, the biggest ones are 1.5 inches across the top, some are wine corks. I did this for the novelty aspect. Some of these plants would be MUCH bigger by now if they weren't stunted and constricted in such small quarters. I know this for a fact from other versions of same plants in other conditions that don't prohibit growing much more quickly, so I've seen the faster pace and larger size of other same individuals.

Are these plants thriving? Yes, according to my very narrow goal of having their appearance change as slowly as possible yet still stay alive and not be unhealthy. If compared to other specimens' much faster rate of growth? Obviously not.

I tend to trust the intended veracity of most anecdotal evidence offered but generally I'm suspicious about most grower's ability to accurately link cause to effect or accurately interpret what they're seeing. Remember, the veterans at garden forum communities are the cream of the crop but only a tiny fraction of the whole of the houseplant growing community, who lack any in depth understanding of how plants/plantings work. Given the large number of horticultural myths that enjoy (?) pervasive status, we can see a lot of people are making up a lot of science as a way of accounting for and explaining what they think they are seeing. E.G. - to some growers, all chlorosis is an iron deficiency and only curable by a shot of iron chelate and all bugs need a thorough killing as quickly as the nearest insect toxin can be made to be in effect.

Tiffany knows enough about plants to understand the limitations imposed by tiny pots .... as I do with regard to the bonsai I keep. I'm as guilty as anyone because I often refer to my plants as 'perfectly healthy' if they are blemish free and LOOK perfectly healthy - yet if I think about it for a second or two I realize I should say perfectly healthy within the limitations imposed by pot size, which is doublespeak for saying they really aren't perfectly healthy. If someone called me on it, I'd have to give ground and congratulate whoever corrected me for thinking in a way that illustrates a better than average understanding of those influences that might fall under the umbrella of Liebig's Law of the Minimum, which has been expanded to include cultural influences that are in addition to nutrition (light, soil choice, water quality, temperature, .....) That would be true even though I already understand the limiting effects of small pots ...... but I'd still have to admit it's my bad for not qualifying my answer fully.

The problem is, qualifying everything we say to the nth degree is cumbersome and uses a lot of words, which in my case makes me more pedantic than I already am ..... so if we don't draw the line somewhere, people lose interest ....... which is why it surprises me that you're still reading this. ;-)

Al

I have always potted jades when I wanted to, any time, and they have always been happy. I use cactus compost mixed with grit, two-thirds to one. I love all my plants but I just couldn't go into it like Al does. A good, really free-draining soil and nice pots, and away you go. I know your information is sound, Al, but you are right, if I were at the stage when I was asking 'can I pot any time? ' long posts would put me off, particularly when they cited scientific studies or laws. It should be fun. I must confess I think your posts would be brilliant in a FAQ situation and then anyone who was really 'into' soil mixes and so forth could access them there and they would be a wonderful asset to the forum. I think if I were just beginning with succulents, your extremely informative posts would alarm me more than anything.

M - based on the amount of mail I get from Houzz, what's expressed in that mail, and the amount of kind expression see in the forums I participate in, I don't really see any reason to change ...... and that's not to say that's your suggestion or inference - I know it's not. I try to make sure every post I make has opportunities for whomever might read that post in the future to learn something that will help them get more from the growing experience. I've made a lot of friends here, and some enemies as well, but that isn't my focus. I'm interested in putting reliable information in front of people who want to learn and improve their skills, and in helping others sort through the white noise that has potential to limit their growing experience in any way.

[The
destroyer of weeds, thistles and thorns is a benefactor, whether he
soweth grain or not. ~Robert Ingersoll]

Not everyone wants to learn or will make the effort to understand something not instantly clear. I'm not as interested in that type of individual, but their questions do present learning opportunities for others in the community, so I'll still offer information someone might consider helpful, even if it's clear the OP isn't particularly interested in implementing anything that hints of difficulty. Reliable info might not always be available, but it can always be ignored.

WHEN you repot has that potential, and it doesn't take a long post to get the point across so even a beginner can understand it. All that needs saying is, Houseplants tolerate the stress of repotting better when their energy reserves are highest and their food-making ability is at or near its peak. For most of us ( living in the northern hemisphere, that translates to June). What makes for lengthy posts is dealing with people that think it doesn't much matter what's done or when it's done, as long as it's fun. Being successful is fun, knowing you're working toward the healthiest and most attractive plants you can have is fun; and, paying attention to the details, ridding ourselves of less productive habits and replacing them with habits plants like more is much more likely to make for success than an approach base on spontaneity. No athlete, successful businessman, pilot, commercial grower, or hobby grower ever did his best (or brought out the best in his/her plants' potential) by doing things when (s)he felt like it.

We rise at certain times, leave for work, return home, eat, plan vacations/ holiday gatherings and plan thousands of other activities based on a schedule, even participating in our favored hobbies on a schedule, because schedules simply allow us to make the best use of our time.

Jades are best repotted in summer, as they are best pruned in summer. The effects of repotting at times less appreciated by the plant might not be as notable as pruning at less appropriate times, but it surely doesn't make sense to think that the timing of pruning the top matters but the timing of pruning the bottom doesn't.

Al

Well it's been almost a day since I last posted, and yet the discussion still continues on one word. I said the word "fun" related to plants. Hey, this is an online forum, and I come here to find out what other people are doing and to help if I can. I don't come to be lectured on whether I'm right or not or to be analyzed in detail. What a bummer. Heading elsewhere.....

Ah now, Sara, please don't be like that. This has always been a place where you can speak your mind, and I will continue to do so, as should you. What I do is skip any posts I find too wordy, Definitely some people seem to enjoy them, and like myself, I know Al is here a long time, and as in a family, there's room for all types. If everyone was like me or like Al, probably no-one would come here. Please stay and give my point-of-view some back-up, and I will heartily applaud yours. I still think there should be a place where Al can post all of his advice, and when someone asks a question like the OP's, above, they could be directed there. I think very long posts full of advice are scary as well as a bit esoteric, and also, there must be many of a scientific turn of mind who don't want to read an academic paper, but would just like to relax and, yes, have fun talking about the actual plants.

I think you guys are making this out to be something it isn't. There is nothing scary scientific about the fact that most houseplants tolerate the stress of repotting better when their
energy reserves are highest and their food-making ability is at or near
its peak. For most of us (living in the northern hemisphere, that translates to June). Doesn't that make perfect sense? and it hardly gets any simpler or easier to understand than that. No one seems to be too interested in disagreeing with the premise, and no one seems to be too interested in dissuading you from your wishes to do as you please, when you please. I'm simply saying there is a better way than deciding to up and repot/ root prune a plant on a whim, just because you feel like it; and, that better way is to wait until the part of the growth cycle when the plant will tolerate it better and recover faster. That someone does something without reason is about as far from a clarion call for others to follow suit as I can imagine. They can if they like, but I think it's much better that they at least see the flip side of that particular coin.

Al

I do get what you're saying, Al, and I would totally agree with you, but for the fact, that these are not ordinary, native plants in our native environment, but house plants at least in the winter, in an unnatural environment, i.e. the home. Therefore, in my opinion, their treatment cannot be considered the same as their life in the wild.

I asked my question because I wanted to know what was the most ideal for my plant. I realize it won't shrivel up and die if I do it at an off time. I also understand how looking at the maintaining of your plants with strict rules can take away from the enjoyment of your plants. that is not my intention or goal.

I really like to understand the basics of how things work and why, attempt to master the basic skills, then use that knowledge to create something.

I don't know if you ever watch something like Iron Chef. Or any cooking show for that matter, these people who are considered ingenious cutting edge chefs start out mastering basic skills and then apply them to create these amazing recipes.

Art is the same. There are very very few people who can pick up a pencil and draw a realistic looking portrait. There are basic fundamentals that need to be practiced and mastered and built upon to create any masterpiece. It can be tedious at times but the hard work and practice pays off if you push through.

I enjoy the process of these things.

Tifany your pots are lovely! They all look so nice.

M - I'm talking specifically about houseplants. In situ plants don't need repotting, and no one is making comparisons between in situ plants and houseplants. In all honesty, this isn't a case where I'm seeking anyone's agreement or consent to say that plotting a course of action that avoids the helter skelter approach of repotting on a whim is better for the plant. There is no rule that says anyone has to do anything they don't like, which has been clearly illustrated by the fact I suggested CCP should repot if she wishes. The information is there for people to do with as they wish. Hopefully they will see that there has been nothing offered in support of acting w/o consideration or reason, which is precisely what you and Sara do. No one cares if you chose that MO, but leaving others with the idea it doesn't matter is no different than saying it doesn't matter what soil you use, how you water, fertilize, prune ..... It ALL matters. Some courses of action are simply better than others, just as taking a prescription medication or having surgery for a heart issue is going to produce better results than having a shaman cast out the evil spirits, and tilling your garden in the spring when the soil is dry enough that it crumbles after squeezing is better than tilling it when it's wet or there's 30 cm of frost in the ground in the dead of winter.

My suggestion is that you and Sara do exactly as you please and that others give more consideration to when they repot, because it can and does make a considerable difference. I would NEVER repot a jade in the winter for no reason other than I felt like repotting something, AND because I know how long it takes a plant stressed by repotting to recover when it is at it's lowest energy levels of the entire growth period and it's ability to make its food is most limited. For others: If you like plants more susceptible to diseases and pest infestations for much longer periods and recovery from the stress of repotting stretched out to as long a span as possible, by all means - repot your plants in the winter ...... and prune them hard at the same time; but, if you want better for the things you care for, try to plan your repotting sessions in the summer when it makes more sense.

Maybe someone can clear things up by telling the thread participants why the haphazard approach to repotting is better or more desirable than putting a plan in place that takes advantage of the plant's strengths and avoids piling on the stress when it's less able to tolerate or recover from that burden? Working WITH your plants natural rhythms instead of against them is ALWAYS a good plan. I'd also be interested in knowing how putting this plan in place could possibly wreck anyone's fun. I really am at a loss to understand where the beef is.

Al

Aha... the age-old question.

Clearing things up: The problem in this thread. I answered that chippedchinaplate should repot now. I even said it's still growing season. Then as the thread progressed, assumptions were made that I like haphazard, and the more that was written, the more assumptions were made about how I do things. And they are incorrect.

My first reason for the repot answer was that chippedchinaplate just brought the plant home in the last week. It has no rhythm in his/her home yet. Second, I said it's still growing season. I have never ever written that anyone should be haphazard or helter skelter or any of that nature on this forum.

Side note: my favorite nursery propogates and divides, and does all sort of prep for the summer, starting in January. Their plants are the best around my area. They do not follow the seasons exactly, and have good results. Because they are indoors and are treated well.

I had to drop the thread for a while because it no longer made sense.

Al, I will hold to my view, and propagate it, that it really does not matter when you repot, with some qualifying remarks: I would not repot in extreme temperatures such as a 100 degrees heatwave or in Arctic temperatures, (neither usual indoors, I hope) and I would make sure the light situation was adequate. I love my jades and they respond by living and thriving for me. I make sure their compost is free-draining and that water is only given when necessary. You are generally a kind and helpful person and enjoy dispensing advice, but to my mind it is too technical and overpowering particularly for beginners, and seems to promote the idea that jades are frail creatures that will keel over and die very easily, and that only in-depth knowledge of soil types and other science will save them. A basic bag of cactus compost mixed with grit does fine. Little old ladies and ancient men with knee-length beards are among the many very ordinary people who have successfully grown jades for generations. Even children grow them in school ! I am aware the difficulty here is that your hobby is soil, while mine is happy jades. I shall continue to be as helpful to others as I see fit, and no doubt you too will carry on.

I have nothing to comment on re. beef, as I am a vegetarian.

Perhaps you might at some stage oblige by posting some images of your jades, Al. There is a suitable thread on Cacti & Succulents right now. I would really like to see yours, as I have never managed to see any you have posted.

..... but the plant DOES have rhythms (search Circadian and endogenous rhythms) firmly established. We don't establish their rhythms, they're a byproduct of the genes with which Mother Nature endowed the plant. We/people/growers are the ones that fall into a favorable rhythm when we plan repotting/root pruning sessions, the timing of which cater to the plant's strengths/weaknesses; or, we approach repotting haphazardly - you cannot have it both ways.

You said "I would do it now. I've never waited for certain times of the year to
re-pot or change something up if I wanted. Still the growing season so I
would say go have fun!" I actually agreed with the fact that repotting now wouldn't be a bad thing, but set the groundwork for the fact that it's better to give consideration to the plant's ability to recover from what we put it through before we do it. It was a generalization - an aside, but for some reason this fact offended you and it was off to the races; yet, for all the ululating and rending of garments, the fact remains unchanged.

Have you considered that your favorite nursery is forced to do things on a schedule that might not be the best choice from the plant's perspective so you can have your bedding plants all ready to plant on the last expected frost day (IOW, so they can increase their profits)? They could raise bedding plants faster and cheaper if they started them in May or June, but who wants to buy bedding plants in July/August? They plan ahead because it affects the bottom line, but at least there is a method to their thinking and they do plan. They surely wouldn't start their bedding plants in September just because they felt like it? Agreed?

If you think it's better to give consideration to a plant's strengths/weaknesses, why not say so? If you disagree and think it doesn't matter, support your opinion and tell us precisely why it doesn't matter. There's been none of that - no support whatever. What the neighbor practices or the greenhouse down the street does to get plants to market on a timely basis is irrelevant.

Al

M - I have grown jades but don't currently. I do grow portulacaria, whose growth habit and cultural wonts are about the same, but their lighter branching and smaller leaves make them better suited to bonsai. I don't have much interest in just watching plants grow; I focus more on plants that best lend themselves to manipulation. On a scale of one to 10 in difficulty, Jades are about a 2 - not hard at all. I do regularly prune and root prune several very large crassula for a couple of doctors, in June, and the occasional plant belonging to someone who wanders into my business seeking help with one that's failing. If I come across these occasional plants in need of repotting, I'll pot up if the timing is inopportune so they can get some relief from root congestion until they can be repotted in a more appropriate time, June.

Everything cultural matters to a plant, and there really IS "a time to every purpose under the heaven". Thinking that when you repot doesn't matter simply cannot be supported. I think that becomes evident when we consider that support for the 'at will' approach has been totally lacking, and your recent additions of qualifications to the original statement really are another way of saying timing DOES matter - otherwise no qualifications necessary.

BTW - I'm not debating the point that a healthy jade will probably manage a full recovery from an off season repotting. My point is that the recovery will take longer, leaving the plant weaker and more susceptible to insects/disease for a much longer period than plants repotted when they are robust. That is a very difficult point to refute.

Al

Not at all hard to refute, in that it has never happened to me that the plant even needed to recover. If you ever read any of my jade posts you would know that my 'qualifications' are only normal 'givens', which would hardly ever need to be outlined except to a 'first succulent' owner, or as in this thread, when some things did seem to need spelling out.

Now I have made my points, Al, I am happy with them, and would not like to take you away from your hopefully thriving business any longer.

Just because your plant doesn't die when you stress it at an inappropriate time doesn't mean that what you're doing makes no difference. If you put "Being alive" on a scale of 1-10, simply surviving and thriving would be at different ends.

I've had some of my plants for more than 20 years, and many of them have undergone manipulations of some sort during the wrong time of year. They survived, but compared to how much more vibrant They are now that I'm working with their natural cycles, I can see that they were not growing to their full potential.

I think that's been pretty well supported by science. Anyone have scientific evidence for the opposing view?

Not necessary, actually. :)

How many days a week do you think people are stressed?

Placing plants in a "no stress, ever" zone is unrealistic. Unless there is a greenhouse, tempurature controlled, automated feeding. Even then, what if a bug accidentally gets in and starts eating its leaves?

Yes, people try to keep things consistent, but life happens. Enjoy the journey.

Nothing is ever perfect, and 'no stress, ever' zone doesn't exists. But there is such thing as working with natural cycles of plants, just as with people. Taking advantage of them to improve overall health is all Al & few others that tried & have seen results are recommending. I don't see why so many can't understand that.

Are you going to force a 4-5 mo baby to walk? - It most likely won't die if one tries (a little), but it is not it's time yet.

It is so simple...choose what you are willing to do and what you won't. That still doesn't mean there are no better ways. In the meantime, the great advice given is available. Some will follow it right away, some will take bits & pieces, some will reject it all. There are folks that will, after some times of doing it the 'I always did it this way and it works for me' remember reading the advice and may decide to try some or all of it.

I have done major pruning at the wrong time of the year, even posted photos of it. Jade didn't die. It is growing. It looks great. And I will never know how much better it would if I did it at best time - no way of comparing, but I believe, based on scientific info, that it would have been even better. In spite of that, even showing it and describing it, I would not say 'forget about proper time and do it any time you want - it worked for me and it is a better way'. It absolutely didn't disprove that working with the natural cycles of plants is better way.

Just like I mention to ppl growing succulents in terrariums: yes, it looks very nice. Your plant will not die immediately. But it will, sooner or later, start declining. Your choice: there is a better way.

I can't believe that so many ppl take offence if someone with more scientifical knowledge takes his/hers free time to share it - and, in case of Al it is tremendous amount of time - even offers to document/support it and yet those same ppl, sometimes even rudely, say it is not worthy reading, it is too long, too boring. It is like studying to be a dentist or a doctor or a scientist - not short, not fun at times, even boring - but if one want's to be a doctor/dentist/whatever, it is something they need to learn.

Nobody said all have to read those posts, nobody is forcing anybody to do that. Just skip it if it is not of interest to you...but there are many interested in knowing more.

Absolutely agree with Rina!

Believing how we time the manipulations we put our plants through doesn't matter, particularly hard pruning and repotting which includes root pruning, flies in the face of all reason. It matters when we water, it matters when we fertilize, it matters when we prune - even a single branch or root tip, it matters when we move our plant outdoors, it matters when we move our plant indoors, it matters when our plant is too hot, it matters when our plant is too cold, it matters when the pot is too large, it matters when the pot is too small, it matters what soil is in the pot, it matters if the plant receives too much light, too little light matters ........; but when you repot/root prune DOESN'T matter? To say there is not a better time to repot/ root prune than, say the dead of winter, is to put one's naiveté on display. That's not meant as an insult, it's simply stating a fact.

"Not at all hard to refute, in that it has never happened to me that the plant even needed to recover" doesn't come close to being a refutation. Traffic accidents don't injure people because my sister has been in 10 of them and has never had to recover. Germs aren't real because I've never noticed one. ANY time you prune a root, there is a recovery period whether one is able to see it or not. Every person who has ever root pruned a plant KNOWS with certainty there is a recovery period during which the top doesn't grow until the volume of roots increases to the point the plant can sustain additional canopy volume.

The logical error you make even has a name. It's called "Begging the Question" or "Circular Reasoning". Begging the Question is a logical fallacy in which the premise includes the
claim that or assumes the conclusion is true. You claim it doesn't matter when you repot/root prune because you believe your plant doesn't have to recover from the work, which clearly illustrated your premise rests on a faulty assumption because no person who thinks clearly believes a plant needn't recover from having half of it's roots (or more) severed.

As I said, I encourage M and S to continue whatever they think is fun, but I encourage others to give a little more consideration to working in harmony with their plants' ever changing periods of strength and weakness, instead of against them. It makes soo much more sense than the "at will" approach to tending plants, and it even leaves you feeling more fulfilled. I just feel much closer to plants when I know I'm acting in ways that minimize the amount and duration of stress they must endure.

Al

Sara - if I had the power to relieve all of your stress, and did, what a blessing that would be. Yes? Or if I had the ability to to relieve it considerably and did, that too would be a significant blessing. Or, if I just relieved half of it, that would be cause for at least a thank you. As long as you're waxing anthropomorphic, why not do something your plants will thank you for when you have that power? (rhetorical - no need to answer)