I don't think anyone knows whether it's legal in their neighborhood or not. There are plenty of places where it's not. Regulations continue to be put in place.

There is also the more general private nuisance law that applies here.

She needs to contact the township and whatever the appropriate agencies are that regulate such things. (See links! lol)

Maybe they need to get all the poisonous smoke and fumes out of their clothes ;-)

I like that word, 'conflate'. I think I'll put it in my pocket for the next gardenweb argument, I mean, debate, lol.

"I have called the local and state police and they tell me they can't help me. I've called the Township supervisors numerous times and they say they will *see* what they can do..yet nothing is ever done."

^^^^

I think there's your answer. Unless there's some environmental agency that she's not contacted yet, the neighbors are within their right to burn.

I just looked up burn laws in my county, and it's very detailed and clear.

snookums2- Words like "conflate"; that's what we call a "50 cent-er".

>Embothrium, you continue to conflate illegal activities with legal activities<

As has been made clear previously - based on what rules have been instituted elsewhere - the burning being complained about here may not in fact be completely legal in this instance, and there may still be a pretty good possibility that it isn't. I'd like to talk to all relevant officials myself before I decided absolutely no help was available.

Never mind the idea that boorish, thoughtless or otherwise offensive behavior gets a pass if no statute prohibiting it has not been put on the books.

What is a 50 center?

True it's probably published somewhere and a lot easier and more accurate to get an answer that way than asking the police or ending up on someone's long list of full fledged fires to put out.

If I were allergic to hay I wouldn't live next door to a horse ranch. At some point personal responsibility has to come into play. If smoke is getting into their house with windows and doors closed that would be a place to start. Time to invest in better windows and door seals.

If I had a child with asthma as severe as the OP describes I certainly wouldn't be living anywhere in or near the Pittsburg area at all. The area is well known for some of the poorest air quality in the nation.

It would seem this is a more recent development she's trying to deal with, either with the bonfires or the child coming to live with her. As far as moving, some people can't afford or so easily do that but improving air quality is certainly a consideration if they can.

I hadn't noticed that this is more than one neighbor burning fires.

They go to Children's Hospital in Pittsburgh. There is farmland around Pittsburgh. Who knows where this person lives. With all those bonfires ;-) it sounds like they might actually be living out in the country. You'd expect some fresh air there!

I'm sure the neighbors attitude is ... You don't like it, then move, lady.

Rural areas aren't always the best for fresh air either. Crop dusting, pollen, smelly crops, dust, livestock. Not to mention that meth labs abound in rural areas. The fresh air of rural life is a storybook version in many cases. Not all, but many,

My place is kind of a jungle in some spots - at least it appears that way to the common scorched earth policy, keep the outside as tidy as the inside mindset. Over the years I've had three different neighbors come over or around fences and on to my property, cut or spray plantings, or otherwise tidy up - without my permission. This is 8/10 acre in a suburban neighborhood, not rural acreage where "nobody will notice or care" (my State actually has a law against unauthorized cutting of vegetation). One came over afterward and rang the doorbell, said gee, sorry, maybe they had done something indiscreet (after they had already done what they wanted to, of course). The others, when called on it, saw no problem - one even got in her car and drove away while I was still talking (yes, talking, and not shouting etc.).

A friend thinks they're unbelievable toxic jerks, I think it's kind of typical - and have seen worse talked about here.

It's not practical or realistic to expect neighbors to never do whatever the hell they feel like, and that when they do all you can do is run away. Or let them walk on you.

We have beautiful farmland and lavish country around here. People do joke it's the result of drug money, lol.

Well, maybe when that laundry experiment is done we will get an update ;-)

>At some point personal responsibility has to come into play<

New code term for "Whatever they try to do to you is your problem and not theirs; certainly no attempt should ever be made to control or stop them".

snookums2

What is a 50 center?

^^^^

A big, new or nifty word that someone uses ;-)

Embothrium

>At some point personal responsibility has to come into play<

New code term for "Whatever they try to do to you is your problem and not theirs; certainly no attempt should ever be made to control or stop them".************

If they are breaking no laws or covenants, by what means are you suggesting that someone "control or stop them"?

Very curious to know, beyond just pleading your case and appealing to their sense of civic duty. Obviously, that has failed here.

' by what means are you suggesting that someone "control or stop them"?'

New laws and regulations. They are cropping up for the bonfires. (See the links! lol). They have to start somewhere, with public awareness.

Unfortunately, people aren't always very cooperative, so the government has to step in. Then it gets really nasty. Self-regulation just doesn't work.

Notice I said "attempt" - attempting to control or stop somebody thought to be creating an offense is exactly what is tried. What else would you call it? The OP going over and talking to smokey neighbor was attempting to control their behavior.

Well, Embothrium, we know this has not worked, so do you have any useful suggestions besides tilting at every windmill on the horizon?

snookums2, I think contacting a state representative might be helpful, but legislation could take years when this boy is in jeopardy in the present.

Moving is a drastic solution, but people do this all the time. Better to be safe, happy and healthy than right.

I just looked up township rules for fire pits and such for our area. Along with other guidelines, smoke must be contained within property lines. Air quality for the day must be above a certain level. Ashes can not be left smoldering. Only certain materials can be burned in them.

I suspect most townships are addressing this since it has become so popular and is also a fire hazard.

We don't have a lot of burning where I live. Maybe some have those little patio pits, but there's no leaf burning allowed.

I used to love the smell of leaves burning and still love the smell of our wood-burning fireplace. Having smoke hang around my house from a neighbor's big bonfire wouldn't be very enjoyable.

Leaf burning where I grew up was outlawed decades ago. I didn't see it on this township's website but don't think it's permitted. I liked the smell too when my father was cleaning things up around the property.

Wood burning fireplaces are still permitted there and in neighboring communities although a lot of people have converted their fireplaces to gas over the years.

Those were the good old days. Life was much simpler and we didn't know we were all gonna die from this stuff, lol. It was just a nice seasonal aroma drifting along in the breeze.

I am here and I appricate all the responses, I'm currently trying to read all of this and deal with some family issues, but I'm here and I thank you. I will send in replys hopefully tonight..thanks a bunch.

There is ALWAYS something you can do. It may take time. It may take confrontation. A lot of things I'll suggest below may not work at all. You may not want to take the risk of doing any of these things. But there is always something you can do.

First I will say there are solutions for the fire enthusiasts. Smoke-free fire pits are available - I saw one on DIY network. There are probably a lot of other solutions. You might want to research those to have them in your back pocket so that you can present fire-producing neighbors with solutions that benefit them as well.

Try to step away from your anger long enough to be able to research solutions that will allow both of you to get everything you want. It's hard, I know. You have to believe that there is a solution that will work for everyone, and you have to figure out what that is.

Secondly, you may be more powerful than you think. Have you lived there for a long time? Have your neighbors? If so, you have clout, especially if you have been a good neighbor.

Are you absolutely sure that they know how much this bothers you? They may think you are ok with it. If you have approached them calmly, they may think it doesn't bother you that much and you would NEVER do anything about it because they have known you for years and you are nice. I'm not suggesting you show anger AT THEM, but they should become aware in some way that this makes you furious, so much so that they become embarrassed. It may take some creativity to figure out how to get the message delivered. Talking to your other neighbors and writing letters to legislators requesting legal protection may help over time. And letting people in the neighborhood know that you are writing anyone who might listen. And that you will not back off until this is resolved. Be strategic as to how and when you talk about this. Don't let it be your identity.

I have had different smoke issues with my neighbors. A respirator is a must. I have two kinds: a 3M paint odor respirator (the gray one) and a big one that has both particle and vapor filters. Don't be afraid to let your neighbors see you wearing the respirators when smoke is being produced.

My suggestion is be outside, be visible, be noisy (not excessively noisy, but let them know you are outside: talk to your dogs, your child, neighbors, whomever, or use power tools). Let your presence be known. Don't let them chase you inside. Don't give them privacy while they are burning the fires. People don't like to be stared at.

Get a fan to use outside. A noisy one is OK. I got one for $100 at build.com. It doesn't work in every instance, but if you pull it out and turn it on, it might communicate a message. Sometimes people will back off if they know when they are bothering you.

If you are on nextdoor.com, you can write a post. Expect bullying. At least you can see if other neighbors agree with you. No name calling or profanity. Tell the community how angry you are without pointing fingers. Ask for what you want. You have to figure that out first, and it has to be a request that seems reasonable to all parties.

Keep logs of the intrusive bonfires. Write down the date, start time, end time, potency. You may discover a pattern that you can work around. If not, a schedule may be a compromise you could pursue, or they might be able to give you notice of bonfire plans. It may also help you communicate patterns to legislators if you want to pursue getting legal protections.

Take walks around the neighborhood. Walk tall and proud and talk to people. Be chatty. Show everyone that you are a nice and confident and proactive person. Take the child to a nearby neighborhood park where the air is clearer. Do this every day and become a recognizable fixture in the neighborhood. Claim your territory.

If you want to move, fine. But you can have a similar problem somewhere else.

None of my suggestions may work at all, but you can always do something. You can always think of something else to do. Try not to think of it as a fight - think of it as a process toward getting a solution that works for everyone, even if it takes years. And even if it appears to be resolved at some point, it's only resolved for an instant. The problem could start up again at any time. So you need to develop a process for dealing with it, and appreciate every breath of clean air you can get. Even if you have to get up at 3am and go outside to get some clean air. (You can look at the stars.)

>There is ALWAYS something you can do. It may take time. It may take
confrontation. A lot of things I'll suggest below may not work at all.
You may not want to take the risk of doing any of these things. But
there is always something you can do<

Yep.

Why on earth would anyone leave a fire smoldering all day? At least they could put it out when they go inside after the fire.

Didn't read EVERY response here... getting close to 100!! When you say "bon fire"??? Are you referring to those "fire pit" things that seem to be so popular? If neighbor is following township/county/state fire regulation... can't see how there's much to be done?

I have a neighbor who has a bonfire, not a cute little fire pit, several times a week. It is almost as if he worships the almighty fire. The smoke is noxious and most times pours in through our house. Reading through many of these comments, I feel terribly for those enduring neighbors doing the same. Never mind the fact that we cannot enjoy the outside deck, we cannot even be in our house as the smoke pours in through the windows. I have asked the neighbors to even give us a heads up before lighting their cancer pit, so that we may close our windows and put the AC on. All we have gotten is complete ignoring of my request and the bonfire continues. I have spoken with the town fire department, they tell me they will come and tell them to put it out because it is illegal. But ...if they have a grate and a hot dog..they can say they were cooking...which they are not..that would be legal. It is very frustrating, and I am not the only neighbor that is bothered. However the other neighbors are too timid to say anything due to controversy in a neighborhood. Is there concrete legal action to take to enjoy our own home, and I worry about future health issues that may arise and would like some documentation that this is where is stemmed from.

When I was a young adult I frequently sat around the camp fire with friends with no problem. Now days, the smoke instantly makes my nose stuff up and sometimes I get a headache. :(

It's an old thread. Did you get the problem resolved mamapinky?

I do understand your position because you want the child to be able to go outside and enjoy life. But so do your neighbours. They too have the right to enjoy their yard and if the city allows fires to burn, nothing can be done.

I live in Alberta, Canada. The province next door is British Columbia. I lost count with how many forest fires are going on in that province at the moment and because of those fires, our air is filled with smoke. I'm talking the highest levels of smoke all. the. time. I can't remember the last time I saw blue skies. The sunrise this morning was a bright pink sun. The sunset will probably be the same. The photo below was taken by my co-workers daughter up in Grand Prairie. There are new fires up north and this is the first she's seen the smoke this bad. But it's common down here now. It's gotten so I don't really notice the smell anymore.

Inhalers are flying off our pharmacy shelves.

If your grandchild can't play in your yard because of the smoke (which I'm sure isn't burning 24/7) maybe you can take him to a park for an hour or two every day so he can play outside.

Yes I did I set the township on them. We have a burn ordinance. No ground fires except for cooking and even than they have to get a one day permit from the township. it wasn't easy the township kept brushing it under the carpet so I threatened to go to the local news. It worked.

I get that people have rights, but burning tires, garbage, wet wood, plastic.old linoleum, old dry wall ect ect ..these people were stopped in the nic of time from burning esbestos. but who knows if they already did. Where's the right to breath fresh air that is not contaminated with all manor of toxins. as for not burning 27/7....my neighbors had HUGE bon fires that smoldered all day than in the evening they had it raging again so yes there was never free and clean air these people gutted houses to earn money took truck load after truck load home to burn. my adult son ended up with pleural effusion and almost died....twice. my husband ended up in hospital last summer with severe lung issues that he never had before.and continues today will problems..my 9 yo has had a lot of asthma problems which he never had before, my 8yo asthmatic could not get his asthma under control until after the burning stopped. All 5 of us have had 4 chest xrays to date ordered by all of our doctors because of the junk the neighbors were burning....there's a vast difference in sitting around a safe wood burning fire and people burning junk to get rid of it.

Know what your neighbors are burning if at all possiable...I don't think anyone is allowed to burn toxins. Find out the burn ordinances in your area. You said they can burn if they are cooking, but do they need to call ahead if their doing this....I'm talking about ground fires not a small cooking fire.

There are 9 homes in my area, a wooded area....in the past 11 years 5 people in these homes died from cancer. My mother being one of them.

Ya I see nothing wrong with someone sitting around a nice contained fire cooking hot dogs, but my neighbors wernt doing that and they had no right to place anyone in danger

I forgot about this thread but now I remember after I wrote it I had a family illness and forgot all about this. Lol.

That's great that a year later you have in fact made progress with this issue and the boy is doing better. It also sounds like by taking action you have helped other people in the neighborhood that were repeatedly being exposed to toxic smoke.

Thank You Embothrium. It wasn't easy putting a stop to this but I video'd tons of coal black smoke billowing into the sky...I actually had quite a few videos of this. I'm not sure how far I would get with the Township inforcing their own burn ordinances, but my kiddos doctor wrote a letter for me explaining about Chips asthma and how this illegal burning places his patient at extreme health risks. I took that letter along with my videos and pictures to a Township meeting ( a standard monthly meeting) . Once I was allowed to voice my grievance I was informed that its impossiable to enforce the burning ordinance in the entire community and I should talk to my neighbor and try to solve this in a neighborly fashion...I said I've already done that several time and the only thing that came out of it was the neighbor screaming in a threatening manner using some graphic and ugly words so if you can not help me by enforcing your own ordinance perhaps the media can, I thanked them for taking the time to hear me and turned to leave when I heard..MrsXXX someone will be out tomorrow evening if we see this illegal burning we will put a stop to it. So the burning stopped.

Thanks for the update mamapinky. I am glad that the bonfires have stopped and your dgs is feeling better. In your original post, you didn't state this had gone on for over 11 yrs. That is unacceptable and inexcusable in my opinion. I can't understand how all the other neighbors put up with it leaving you to fight the battle alone.

I didn't see the part where they were burning garbage. That's wrong no matter where you live. Wood. Clean wood, that's all anyone should burn inside city limits. Not garbage.

I have only lived here since 09 this was my moms home.

Debby I kinda assumed you didn't know it was toxic burning. Lol

I live northwest of Columbus and most of the metro area uses the same regulations as Columbus.

Fire Pits

Fire Prevention Bureau

In the City of Columbus, fire pits will be allowed with the following stipulations:

• Must be a commercial fire pit with a screen top or a chimera, like those that can be purchased at Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc.
• Use only clean, seasoned firewood or equivalent.
• Recommend a water source and/or fire extinguisher located near and readily available for immediate use.
• Must be supervised at all times. Be certain that the fire is completely extinguished before leaving it unattended.
• Fire must be contained within the appliance, with no part of the flames extending outside the appliance or screen.
• No
  less than ten (10) feet from any combustible structure (house, fence,
  shed, etc). Apartment Buildings may require twenty five (25) feet.
• Fire Pits can not be used during “Air Quality Alert” days.
• Any
  other “Open Burning” (trash, brush, etc) must be approved by the
  Division of Fire, Fire Prevention Bureau and must have a permit.
• Fires must be contained to a 3-foot diameter and cannot reach more than 2 feet in height.

If there are ANY complaints from neighbors, immediate extinguishment
must be done. Complaints might include, but are not limited to, smoke
drifting into their house, embers drifting to their property and/or fire
getting out of control.

Gosh I am in the same exact situation. I've lived in my home in an adorable little town in the middle of nowhere for 9 years and my husband has lived here for 12 years before I moved in. My daughter and myself both have asthma. My redneck neighbors moved in back in September right across from us. At first they were burning household trash plastic styrofoam whatever they could find. Because they didn't want to pay for trash pickup... So I informed the police twice. Well now they figured out that it was me that called and every single day all day long they start two separate fires including wood, brush, twigs anything they can find in their yard just to spite me. The sad part is I live in Virginia and it's legal to burn brush wood Etc. These people never put it out it burns all night long I can't go outside, I can't open my windows on a nice cool summer night to enjoy the fresh air....It's absolute hell. It's awful I take my bath, get my makeup on and get all fixed up and then have to walk outside and get my clothes all smelly before going somewhere. My husband works 2nd shift so he's never really here and completely refuses to move. Its to the point where I'm thinking of packing and leaving. Mine and my children's quality of life has diminished because we can't live like normal people and go outside during the summer and have fun because me and my daughter are both so choked up from smoke.. Plus its a migraine trigger for me... I literally have to go to my parents or someone fun just so we can do stuff. I feel completely helpless!! I dread coming home when we do go somewhere. Its such a shame. I asked my neighbor how would you feel if your child or grandchild had asthma and couldn't go outside because of the smoke and he said I'd tell them to go in the house. Its feels like harassment because they do it JUST to upset me. Ugh thanks for reading I had to vent.

See a lawyer. There may be something you can do. Also, get with your local gov't and see what would need to be done to change the local ordinances to prohibit constant burning. At least where I live there are prohibitions on open burning many months of the year because of fear of wildfires. And when air quality gets poor, burning is prohibited even in certain fireplaces and wood stoves. I hope you don't have to leave, but I certainly would if my kids and I couldn't breathe.

The HU-+string of numbers series of posters is a troll. It will get deleted soon.

HU-80106260

I
can't believe the comments of these people that say the fire burner has
a right to enjoy their property, as if the other person doesn't have
the right to enjoy their SMOKE FREE property. Seriously????? My thinking
is enjoy your property and do what you want on it as long as you can
keep it on your property, when it goes off your property fills my yard,
my house and my lungs with your crap it's NO longer your property its
MINE, This lady has a right to a smoke free yard and house for her
grandson, she pays her taxes for it and house payments, and she
shouldn't have to move, what a stupid comment! Take your fires to the
campground where they belong. Can't believe how ignorant some people can
be. If it goes off your property it becomes someone else's business. I
would seriously consider talking to an attorney to get help with medical
bills from these thoughtless excuses for a human being.

Emily H

Hi
All, Hopefully, most users will create a name to display with their
posts. Those that don't are assigned a random name until they take a
moment to update it. These changes were necessitated by GDPR (General
Data Protection Regulation) that all sites must be in compliance with as
of a short while ago. Unfortunately, spammers that routinely hit the
site (we are constantly adjusting our filters to fight them) are not
likely to create names, so they also appear with randomly generated
usernames. There are also actual real people behind many of the accounts
though, so please do welcome those folks as you would any other user.

But, HU-whoever didn't make a very graceful entrance.
[1 Like[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/hu-266994683-what-is-this-dsvw-vd~5387098)
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As hot as hades as it is who would want to sit by a fire unless they are trying to annoy you? That is too bad for your grandson! But we have realized that explaining and trying to teach a neighbor does not work. Trying to explain to the neighbors that you seem to have only annoys them. You might have to research laws and annoyance laws in your area. This reminds me of a saying that I once heard. (apply this to you neighbors) "Do not try to teach a pig. It only frustrates you and annoys the pig."

Well, haha, in defense of the pig, they are very intelligent animals. Even more so than dogs. :)

You are right Moonie as far as pigs being intelligent. This is what I was meaning, Moonie. Know how certain people who will refer to a person being a pig in a derogatory way? Well, that was what I was meaning. Her neighbors are nothing but pigs with no consideration for her or her grandson which I think is a shame. They are pigs wanting to Hog up the air space. This is ONLY my opinion though. Others have theirs.

Apparently this burning stopped nearly a year ago in this two year old thread.

Awww...well, I did not notice the date. Well, duh to me!