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mrspete

Still considering modern ranch

mrspete
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago

A couple weeks ago I posted this plan here and comments were generally positive. I've been kicking it around a while, and I'm leaning more strongly towards this plan instead of the more traditional house that we were planning, and I'd like some feedback on our thoughts:

First, we're an almost-retired couple. One child out of college, engaged to be married in a few months, younger child in college. We're looking to build a modest house that'll allow us to age in place. We're in a warm Southern climate, and the back of the house has ideal Southern exposure.

The original elevation and plan:

We're looking at fairly small changes:

The biggest change is a 6' wide "back hall" that allows for several things:

- A big pantry towards the front of the house.

- An entry room with coat hooks straight ahead of the door and a pretty chest of drawers /mirror in the sight line from the rest of the house. I offset the doors so the garage door wouldn't be visible from the living areas.

- A half bath to the back, which may/may not include an exterior door.

I'd alter the kitchen cabinets -- just cabinets, no big changes here:

- I'd go with uppers only on the side wall and a larger window bank above the back wall. Not unlike this:

- My husband is a VERY enthusiastic BBQer, so slider windows or windows that open up somehow would be great here between the kitchen and the patio.

- This picture shows slab cabinets, but I've read that these are bad for warping -- comments? Do you like those oversized pulls?

- I'm thinking of the sink going on the island. I prefer to prep "looking outward" instead of towards the wall, even if the wall is all windows.

- What do you think of losing the shorty peninsula so the island can be deeper?

I also made changes to the master bath/closet, which I found lackluster:

- I want a large elderly-friendly shower, something like this inspiration picture -- but I bumped out the tub, which will be set in a deck -- think of this for layout more than finishes:

- This allows for one large closet and a second closet in the hallway, which -- since this house has no attic -- would be welcome.

- I'd change the master bedroom exterior door into a slider and place a small patio out that door.

- Finally, I don't care for the built-in cabinet (dresser?) facing the master bedroom, so I turned it towards the laundry room (and with such a large closet, I don't think we need clothing storage in the bedroom). I'm thinking the laundry room will function as a pocket office; thus, a large hobby closet would be welcome.

- In the laundry room, I'd move the side-wall window so it's a nice focal point as you enter the room.

So ... questions ...

- Thoughts on the above?

- Here's the big one: I like the exterior, but I don't want to decorate the interior in a matching modern style. I'd go with a transitional casual style. I'm thinking hardwood floors, white boarded ceilings with beams in the vaulted main areas. I was already leaning towards slate backsplash, fireplace, and bathroom, and that seems like a medium that'd work in this design.

- I'm really unsure about windows. I don't want jalousie windows, and I do want the ability to get breezes going through the main areas. Double hungs seem wrong -- so that leave sliders or casements? I'm thinking that the dining room windows would not be true floor-to-ceilings ... but would be 72" like my old house -- I did love those windows.

- Similarly, look at the two back doors in the great room. I don't see any point in two doors that can be touched at once, especially when they're different styles ... would you keep the slider or the standard door?

- Would you make the bathroom between the two secondary bedrooms into a jack and jill? I think I'd definitely bring the secondary bathroom forward that 1-2' to flatten out the front of the house.

- What other thoughts do you have?

Comments (17)

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    The biggest change is a 6' wide "back hall" that allows for several things:

    - A big pantry towards the front of the house.

    - An entry room with coat hooks straight ahead of the door and a pretty chest of drawers /mirror in the sight line from the rest of the house. I offset the doors so the garage door wouldn't be visible from the living areas.

    Is this enough room for maneuvering around if you ever need to with a walker for example?

    - A half bath to the back, which may/may not include an exterior door.

    I'd alter the kitchen cabinets -- just cabinets, no big changes here:

    - I'd go with uppers only on the side wall and a larger window bank above the back wall. Not unlike this:

    - My husband is a VERY enthusiastic BBQer, so slider windows or windows that open up somehow would be great here between the kitchen and the patio.

    - This picture shows slab cabinets, but I've read that these are bad for warping -- comments? Do you like those oversized pulls?

    - I'm thinking of the sink going on the island. I prefer to prep "looking outward" instead of towards the wall, even if the wall is all windows.

    I don't like that the fridge and oven are squished on the one wall and then you have that long expanse in front of the windows if you put the sink on the island. Are you doing a separate oven and cooktop or just a stove?

    I highly recommend you consider doing a separate cooktop and oven for ease of use as you age.

    If you go with two separate units, I would put the oven next to the fridge, and then center the cooktop on the window wall. I'd do windows on either side of the cooktop and maybe a long, stationary window where the backsplash is.

    I'd also seriously consider induction if you haven't up to now.

    - What do you think of losing the shorty peninsula so the island can be deeper?

    Agree 100%! That shorty peninsula just creates another useless corner cabinet.

    I also made changes to the master bath/closet, which I found lackluster:

    - I want a large elderly-friendly shower, something like this inspiration picture -- but I bumped out the tub, which will be set in a deck -- think of this for layout more than finishes:

    - This allows for one large closet and a second closet in the hallway, which -- since this house has no attic -- would be welcome.

    - I'd change the master bedroom exterior door into a slider and place a small patio out that door.

    I don't care for 2 separate doors for the bathroom/closet. I had that in my condo, and it was a PITA. Plus if you ever wind up on different wake/sleep cycles, it will mean one of you disturbing the other's sleep.

    - Finally, I don't care for the built-in cabinet (dresser?) facing the master bedroom, so I turned it towards the laundry room (and with such a large closet, I don't think we need clothing storage in the bedroom). I'm thinking the laundry room will function as a pocket office; thus, a large hobby closet would be welcome.

    Do you really need to make the laundry into a crafts room when you have two nice guest bedrooms? Considering one girl will be gone when she's married and the other once she's in college except for summers, couldn't one be a crafts room and the second be a whatever?

    And in the bedroom, maybe not a built in dresser, but what about a wall for books, tv, knick knacks or???

    - In the laundry room, I'd move the side-wall window so it's a nice focal point as you enter the room.

    I wouldn't. I like the window in the corner like it is.

    So ... questions ...

    - Thoughts on the above?

    - Here's the big one: I like the exterior, but I don't want to decorate the interior in a matching modern style. I'd go with a transitional casual style. I'm thinking hardwood floors, white boarded ceilings with beams in the vaulted main areas. I was already leaning towards slate backsplash, fireplace, and bathroom, and that seems like a medium that'd work in this design.

    I think that's fine.

    - I'm really unsure about windows. I don't want jalousie windows, and I do want the ability to get breezes going through the main areas. Double hungs seem wrong -- so that leave sliders or casements? I'm thinking that the dining room windows would not be true floor-to-ceilings ... but would be 72" like my old house -- I did love those windows.

    Sliders or casements.

    - Similarly, look at the two back doors in the great room. I don't see any point in two doors that can be touched at once, especially when they're different styles ... would you keep the slider or the standard door?

    I agree. I would get rid of the fireplace in back and do a single pocket slider like I'm doing in my build.

    - Would you make the bathroom between the two secondary bedrooms into a jack and jill? I think I'd definitely bring the secondary bathroom forward that 1-2' to flatten out the front of the house.

    Absolutely not. If you have two sets of guests, can you imagine them having to remember to unlock the door? And knowing you, I'm assuming there will only be one sink in the guest bathroom?

    - What other thoughts do you have?

    In the great room, I'd move the fireplace to the wall that backs up to your bathroom so you can have a wonderful wall of windows along the back that is not blocking the view.

  • mrspete
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Is this enough room for maneuvering around if you ever need to with a walker for example?

    At 6' deep, yes. That's wider than my arm span, wider than a hallway. I drew this in Word and don't promise that it's to scale -- but the most narrow point would be the part marked in red:

    I have a unique chest of drawers that my husband gave me for our first Christmas, and it's 22" deep ... so with 6' of space, it'd be about 4' wide ... and if we needed space for a walker or wheelchair to be left in this room, we could always remove the chest. I don't like that the fridge and oven are squished on the one wall
    and then you have that long expanse in front of the windows if you put
    the sink on the island. Are you doing a separate oven and cooktop or
    just a stove?

    Thinking through that ... that cabinet run is somewhere between 10'-6" and 11' ... so allot 36" for the fridge, 30" for the range, 36" for the corner cabinet ...

    I'm thinking this is a comfortable size with elbow room on the two sides of the range.

    I just don't love cooktops between windows. I don't have a reason.

    My mom has induction. I neither love nor hate it, but I would consider it.

    I don't care for 2 separate doors for the bathroom/closet. I had that
    in my condo, and it was a PITA. Plus if you ever wind up on different
    wake/sleep cycles, it will mean one of you disturbing the other's sleep.

    Eh, I have two closets and one bathroom door in my current bedroom, and the only thing I dislike about it is that the closet is next to the bed. I prefer the bed to be "in an alcove" -- not literally an alcove, of course, but I mean tucked back with no reason for people to "walk around" the bed. This is sometimes a problem for me if my husband goes to bed early (very common) and I want to hang clothes in the closet. However, with the doors at "the foot of the room", I don't see it as a problem.
    Do you really need to make the laundry into a crafts room when you
    have two nice guest bedrooms?

    It's something to consider, though my youngest will be with us a while longer, really one room will be hers -- still, that leaves us one guest room. We need the office for a computer spot and hobby storage. My husband likes to close the door and listen to his music in the office too.

    I wouldn't. I like the window in the corner like it is.

    Actually, I do too, but I also like the idea of a window straight ahead of the door ... perhaps the answer isn't a moved window, but a second window. More natural light couldn't be bad,

    I think that's fine.

    Good 'cause I feel insecure about that idea.

    I agree. I would get rid of the fireplace in back and do a single pocket slider like I'm doing in my build.

    I like the fireplace "as is", and I don't think I'd like the kitchen AND the adjacent great room so very open. Yeah, I know, I just said too much natural light couldn't be bad, but two large banks of windows side by side might push that limit.

    Thanks for the feedback and for giving me things to think through!

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  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    I just don't love cooktops between windows. I don't have a reason.

    LOL. I understand there are reasons that have no visible basis except our own aesthetic. That's fine. However, two thoughts.

    Yes the space next to the fridge is plenty large enough to have the cooktop, but is it the best use of space with then also having that long counter in front of the window with it being nothing more than a place to dump stuff?

    Again the other reason I suggested the cooktop between the windows is so you could have a wall oven for aging in place next to the fridge.

    Plus the layout of the space will work better in terms of cooking.

    My mom has induction. I neither love nor hate it, but I would consider it.

    Again, think of it as an aging in place thing. It's much safer since you're not actually heating up the stove either through electric or fire and most of the induction cooktops have an automatic shutoff after a certain period of time. Now think of an aging brain that forgets to turn off the burners, or forgets about a pot of water boiling, etc.

    Or think of trying to lift pots in the rear and having to reach over the front burners as you age. Honestly for anyone planning on aging in their home, I really think it's the way to go.

    This is sometimes a problem for me if my husband goes to bed early (very common) and I want to hang clothes in the closet. However, with the doors at "the foot of the room", I don't see it as a problem.

    We had it at the "foot of the room" like that in our condo and it was still a problem because it was opening one door and then the second one, or turning on one light and then the other. I had to learn to close the door and then turn the light on. Of course YMMV. :)

    Good 'cause I feel insecure about that idea.

    Mixing of styles is what makes a house interesting.

    I like the fireplace "as is", and I don't think I'd like the kitchen AND the adjacent great room so very open. Yeah, I know, I just said too much natural light couldn't be bad, but two large banks of windows side by side might push that limit.

    It might just come down to your view. If you have a spectacular view, you might ditch the fireplace on that wall. However if your view is just ok, it might be just as wise to keep it there.

  • Stan B
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I just have to say my dad designed and built almost the same floor plan and exterior design for our family back in 1969, including the row of clerestory windows. It really is amazing how similar it is: two single garage doors, two bedrooms in front, master in back. We had a laundry/powder room/storage area across the back of the garage that connected to the house. Also we had a kitchen/dining room in the front with a living room and family room across the back. Even the master bath was configured the same way as your original plan with two closets across a short hallway leading to the bath area.

    It was a very livable floor plan for our family and when it came time to sell it 45 years after construction the design was still very popular. Every room except the kitchen and baths had vaulted ceilings with exposed wood decking and beams which buyers were in awe of.

    Challenges with this design include: flat roof (higher cost and may need to replace more frequently) and potential for water leaks around the clerestory windows. We had a tar and gravel roof which had to be inspected regularly because it was hard to identify when it was breaking down and soon to start leaking. We lived in a southwest climate so much less rain than you'll likely have in the south. Make sure you research the roofing alternatives carefully that are best suited for your climate. You'll probably want to work with a commercial roofer (not a residential roofer who specializes in tile/asphalt shingle). Some of the more modern spray on coatings used on flat commercial/industrial roofs don't look very good when the roof is exposed like yours will be.

    We had a crawl space under the house where the ducting was run.

  • mrspete
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Yes the space next to the fridge is plenty large enough to have the
    cooktop, but is it the best use of space with then also having that long
    counter in front of the window with it being nothing more than a place
    to dump stuff?

    I hear what you're saying ... but I think I could better accept the sink under the window and a cooktop on the island. And that could bump the refrigerator over toward the middle of that run ... must ruminate on that.

    It might just come down to your view. If you have a spectacular view,
    you might ditch the fireplace on that wall. However if your view is
    just ok, it might be just as wise to keep it there.

    And our view is "just okay".

    Heck it's not only aging that is a reason to go induction - I've been
    lighting random stuff on fire on the cooktop and in the microwave (yes,
    IN THE MICROWAVE) since my 20's.

    I've only started a fire in the microwave once. It was my great-great-great aunt's microwave (she lived in an apartment on the side of our house when I was a kid), and I put a good dish with a gold rim into the microwave. Yeah, not good: The rim popped off the dish and the contents caught on fire.

    It was a very livable floor plan for our family and when it came time to
    sell it 45 years after construction the design was still very popular.
    Every room except the kitchen and baths had vaulted ceilings with
    exposed wood decking and beams which buyers were in awe of.

    Good to hear!

    Challenges with this design include: flat roof (higher cost and may need
    to replace more frequently) and potential for water leaks around the
    clerestory windows.

    Noted. This plan shows a metal roof, and I was already inclined in that direction. Metal roofs tend to do well in this climate, but I'll be sure to ask plenty of questions about the specifics of this roofline.

    Any particular reasons for leaks around the windows? Since they're up high, were they difficult to detect, or were they evident?

  • pamghatten
    7 years ago

    I have what I call "awning" style windows, and I love them since you can open them when it's raining. From the outside, it looks like they would work for some of your windows.

  • Stan B
    7 years ago

    The issue we had with water leaks around the clerestory windows was due to the wind blowing water into the area where the base of the window met the lower roof. I think you'd want to make sure the bottom of the windows are sufficiently elevated above the lower roof surface and figure out a way to avoid pooling of water.

    The pitch of the roof will be the key factor in determining what roof will work. I'd investigate options with a local roofer who specializes in flat roofs before committing to the plan. Many residential builders do not have a lot of experience with flat roofs. Some roofers will not work on a flat roof.

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    No roof should be "flat"! All roofs should have a positive pitch for proper drainage. This design appears to have pitched roofs--my guess is 4/12?

  • Stan B
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    OK, you are of course technically correct. However many people including homeowners, realtors, builders, and roofers do refer to low pitched roofs as "flat". Perhaps its a regional thing.

  • pat4750
    7 years ago

    What a lovely home and how smart you are to plan for "aging in place". My husband & I built our home 10 years ago for just the same purpose. One thing you may have already considered but I can't tell from the plan is for ALL doorways to be 36" , including main closets. My husband uses a walker currently but he had to use a wheelchair for a few months this year. The wider doors made it possible for him to get into the MBdrm closet, into the Master bath and to get from room to room mostly on his own. For the walker and the wheelchair, the 2 steps from the garage into the house were an obstacle that we overcame with an aluminum ramp but it does take some strategy to park the cars so that the ramp, and access to it, is not blocked.

    Best of luck with your planning.

    pat

  • mrspete
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks for the information on roofing. It's 2:12, so you're not far off.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    I'm wondering if you could raise the pitch to a 4/12?

  • Stan B
    7 years ago

    It won't look like a "modern ranch" with a 4:12 slope, but that might be more practical for an area that gets a lot of rain. California Ranch architects such as Cliff May and Joseph Eichler didn't have to worry about snow weight or heavy rain (although I do understand that leaky roofs have plagued many owners of these houses over the past 50-60 years).

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    A 4/12 roof pitch is generally the point where shingles, metal roofing, etc. are commonly recommended and are durable. Lesser pitches generally tend to be built-up roofing (tar and gravel, membrane, etc) and similar types of roofing. Of course, there are lots of possible technical exceptions which require lots of additional roofing materials and careful workmanship. Climatic conditions also make obvious differences.

    I differ with Stan about what roof pitches look like, but then I really don't know what a "modern ranch" is compared to anything else. Cliff May and Joseph Eichler did often use 3/12 or less with tar and gravel roofs, which often had to be repaired. I lived in wonderful Eichlers in Mountain View and Palo Alto for many years. Many home owners, when faced with repairs, opted for membrane roofing.

  • bpath
    7 years ago

    You've talked about how the range is too close to the fridge, and it's true that this kitchen wouldn't pass muster over in "Kitchens", but I just want to say that my cooktop and fridge are about that close, and it sure is convenient. I can easily grab the little things for a splash of cream, sauce, nut oil, or the chicken broth I freeze in ice cube trays. It keeps the rest of my counterspace clear. And I prefer an island with nothing on it. This kitchen gives you a nice stretch of prep space between sink and range.

  • emilyam819
    7 years ago

    You should definitely post in "kitchens".