The Actinovate and BiotaMax are both products that contain beneficial fungi and bacterial that are intended to prey on the disease causing fungi and bacteria in the soil. Just as people eat yogurt, kefir, and buttermilk to re-establish beneficial gut bacterial to treat an upset stomach, these soil probiotics help plants fight off diseases. I keep trying to imagine the interactions between either of these with the Myco-Grow. It sort of reminds me of the old story of Satchel Page about a thermos bottle keeping liquids either hot or cold. "How to it know?" Part of my brains says the microbes in the Actinovate and BiotaMax will prey on the mycorrhizal fungi in the MycoGrow that we want to get established in the soil. On the other hand, the MycoGrow contains many of these same microbes in addition to the mycorrhizal fungi, so they must play well together. While I've already bored everybody besides you to sleep with the benefits of mycorrhizal fungi to a plant's roots, these other microbes play different but equally important roles in the health of the soil and plants. Just as lady bugs, lacewing larvae, and praying mantis come in like the calvary to eat the aphids, spider mites, and thrips, these soil probiotics fill a simlar role. They will kill off the bad bacteria and fungi that cause plant disease such as Damping off, Powdery Mildew, Verticillium, Fusarium, Black Spot, Rusts, Fire Blight, and Phytophthora root rots and blights. It's difficult to say anything for sure since the ingredients of the products don't give you any idea of how much of the microbes are included, only which ones are included. My hunch from reading over the info on all three products is that the Myco-Grow contains almost everything that is in both of the other two plus having the Mycorrhizal fungi. The Actinovate only has one strain of bacteria, so I'm guessing the BiotaMax will do more good than the Activovate. The Myco-Grow contains: Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Glomus etunicatum, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora monosporum Ectomycorrhizal fungi Rhizopogon villosullus, Rhizopogon luteolus, Rhizopogon amylopogon, Rhizopogon fulvigleba, Pisolithus tinctorius, Laccaria bicolor, Laccaria laccata, Scleroderma cepa, Scleroderma citrinum, Suillus granulatas, Suillus punctatapies Trichoderma fungi Trichoderma harzianum, Trichoderma konigii Beneficial Bacteria Bacillus subtillus, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus azotoformans, Bacillus megaterium, Bacillus coagulans, Bacillus pumlis, Bacillus thuringiensis, Bacillus stearothermiphilis, Paenibacillus polymyxa, Paenibacillus durum, Paenibacillus florescence, Paenibacillus gordonae, Azotobacter polymyxa, Azotobacter chroococcum, Sacchromyces cervisiae, Streptomyces griseues, Streptomyces lydicus, Pseudomonas aureofaceans, Deinococcus erythromyxa ======================================================= The Biota Max Soil Probiotic contains fungi Trichoderma harzianum Trichoderma viride Trichoderma koningii Trichoderma polysporum bacteria Bacillus subtilis Bacillus laterosporus Bacillus licheniformus Bacillus megaterium Bacillus pumilus Paenibacillus polymyxa bacteria for fixing nitrogen ======================================================= Actinovate contains only Streptomyces lydicus bacteria ======================================================= You said you had 10 tomato plants. I'm assuming that means 5 Earthtainers, so for a good experiment I would suggest the following: One with no probiotcs added One with MycoGrow only One with BiotaMax only One with MycoGrow and BiotaMax One with MycoGrow and Actinovate My newest topic I'm reading research on is using Aspirin as a soil drench and foliar spray to help plants fight diseases and stress. I'll post something when I find enough to indicate whether it's a fad or fact.

Blutranes, I completely agree with you regarding the forums as a fantastic place for people with similar interests to share ideas. I also thought Rainer's post was exceptional, esp. when he/she cautioned against reductionist thinking. Pablo, I'll try one more time. "No- I suggested that your "data" did not answer my question." The intent of my post wasn't to respond to your question, merely to state my experience. "It's very simple. If you make a claim, you should be able to back it up. If not- then why make the claim?" I did back up my claim with a description of the differing growth of two identical plants. You are the one asking for an elaborate experiment done according to established scientific protocol. My experiment was never intended to be classified as "scientific" according to your definition. If you want to see results of the experiment you have in mind, you need to either do it yourself, or contact a research institution that will do it for you. "With links that cite actual studies. See the difference?" The article clearly says analysis of the peer-reviewed research will take place in upcoming issues, not in that article. You are complaining that they didn't include cites when that wasn't the purpose of the article. The B.C. article didn't include any direct quote from the studies. There was no need to provide a citation. Anything written by anyone other than the original author is a secondary source. That includes you. "Oh- c'mon- how many articles out there do this?" If you include a quote, you need to cite the source. Earlier in the thread you said you have had your work published under peer-review standards. Do these standards allow authors to publish un-referenced quotes they pull out of thin air? Check the Chicago Manual of Style for the rules on quotes. You'll find the rule is what I have said. In the context of you post, it looks like you are referring to the B.C. article. You can't have one set of standards for yourself and demand another set of standards from others. "I understand- until then, we don't have any that give us real hope that ACT does anything more than good old fashioned compost on the ground- at least that we've seen or that have been conclusive." Based on what I've read, since every batch of compost is different and can't be standardized, you can never find the scientific certainty you are hoping for. I don't want to see people taken in by something if it is really useless. The teas I have brewed from my own compost for use in my own garden have proved themselves. My experience is enough reason for me to continue. I encourage people to brew it for themselves and see if it has any benfits in their garden. I've read non-aerated compost teas shows many of the benefits and possible more than ACT. An advantage of ACT is that it is faster to brew. In a short growing season such as mine, it makes sense to brew aerated for two or three days instead of wait two weeks or more for non-aerated brewing. Also, although this again is mere anecdote, I always top dress the garden with regular old compost, but the rich growth doesn't take place until after my ACT application. If you prefer to wait until enough research has been done showing that ACT or even N-ACT is worth the time for you, that's fine.

Hi Folks I know it was literally years ago but I just wanted to chime in and say what a great discussion thread this is/was. So many claims are made by sellers and "makers" - for what it's worth, I am going the opposite direction with my project for our own home. I am building new doors that will look like 1930's commercial chiller units, with big hinges and handles as well as adding several personal touches to the whole lot, like refashioned Chrysler wings emblems etc . The two fridges I am using are a liebherr wine/freezer unit and a Jenn Air Alaska model - see attached link and click on AA kitchen project .... might cause some heart palpitations for some, but perhaps a smile for others. BTW In one of my designs I overcame the issues around the toe kick by replacing the floor under the fridge with an insect proof perforated metal grill ... still strong enough to take the fridge and enabled cool air to vent up from the underfloor. Of course, we live in a temperate climate so this may not be an option for N. America. best wishes from Kilmore, Australia Steve Ansell Here is a link that might be useful: Steve Ansell

Cynic >This one has me confused though: "...my cell phone provider gouged me for 4 consecutive months of payments even though I was paying cash at their store." If you have auto-pay, why are you paying cash at the store? Something's missing or I'm not following something. I was paying my bill in cash at their store. I had already called the (cell phone provider) ahead of time and told them I would be doing this. Each month my bill would arrive, each month it kept reflecting an overpayment. I would call them and they said it would be corrected. This happened FOUR months in a row. I contacted the credit card company and told them to cancel the card. Same thing happened with them. They would say it would be canceled. The following month I would get a bill for the same incorrect amount. I finally spoke to someone at the CC co. who said until the cell phone provider notified them, I would continue to be responsible for the charges whether they were right or wrong. They never said ANYTHING about having to have a cancellation number. BOTH the cell phone provider and CC company neglected to inform me of this necessary requirement. I wonder why? Well the reason why, is because THEY were MAKING MONEY and didn't want it to stop. These companies do not make it easy. They don't fully inform you when you sign up, and they don't tell you what you really need to do in order to cancel this type of payment. I finally contacted a consumer newspaper reporter. She said she doesn't care for automatic payments for the same reason and gets many calls regarding this. She contacted the cell phone provider's publicity relations department. That worked. They must have called my CC company because everything was taken care of within the month and I didn't receive any more credit card bills. My cell phone bills are what they are supposed to be. I still pay in cash. I no longer have the credit card. They send me solicitations all the time. Thanks, but no thanks. Contacting the AG's office is a good idea. dadoes >dreamgarden probably thought if he/she paid cash, the autopay wouldn't trigger. That's not necessarily the case. I wonder what IS the case? Who at EITHER company, was supposed to tell me I needed a cancellation number in order to stop the autopay? Out of a total of seven calls, 4 to the cell phone provider and 3 to the CC company, not ONE person mentioned this. Don't they teach customer service reps this information? I no longer wanted auto-pay and told them this. I said I would be paying in cash from now on and to cancel auto-pay. I don't understand how I could have been any clearer. >I recall a couple cases where I work of customers having autopay set up through CheckFree. One fellow died, his wife had NO CLUE about any of their finances and the auto-pay kept coming, for MONTHS. She no longer wanted the service, but she didn't contact us or was even aware the service existed, so how are we to know that? "How are we to know that?". How did you find out that her husband died? How do you know the wife no longer wanted the service if she was never contacted? Was she on the account too? Doesn't your company have some policy regarding taking money from a deceased person's account? > The other case, the fellow changed his account services, but didn't change the monthly autopay amount. We contacted him, he still didn't change the amount. Built up a large credit that had to be refunded when he eventually closed the service. When the fellow called to change his account services, was he asked if the present autopay amount was ok? If he was changing his account services, this would seem to be a logical question to ask a customer. Was he notified by telephone or in writing? This is why I like to receive paper billing. Sometimes when a credit card company calls (and leaves a message), they don't always state the nature of their business. When I have called back, they try to sell me some service or item I'm not interested in. Now I don't return calls unless they leave a message telling me something is wrong, or needs to be corrected. I had them put this in my file. I don't want to be bothered with solicitations or irrelevant matters that aren't directly related to some kind of problem with my account. In my opinion the above examples are just more reason to pay as you go and not allow company's to have recurring access to your bank account.