Why aren't you watering the rooted ones and misting the unrooted ones? They'd all surely like some water. Increased sun = more colourful Aloes. As long as it's warm and sunny, they'll want some water.

Water well then allow to dry.

Watered well on the weekend, but still moist on the toothpick yesterday. .. Is that " allowing to go dry"?! How dry is dry? Sigh. I just can't seem to get this right :-P

I'll water them now and check before I leave town. They're growing, so that's positive.

i accidentally knocked over one of my haworthia pups and it was still soaked so I changed the mix out on all of them. A repotted cactus seems very wet still, too. My new mix seems to be very moisture retentive with the Qualisorb so I'm going to adjust and add more parts perlite than Qualisorb.

I never understood why you added the Qualisorb.

Mix & perlite at 50/50 should have been fine.

Are you sure the Qualisorb isn't acting as an absorbent? I'd skip the Qualisorb completely as it seems it's not helping.

Lena

It's a turface equivalent, is it not? Everybody's always going on about turface being crucial in their mix - is it used only in the absence of *soil*? Clearly it's dong me no favours!

i am going to pick up a notebook to write down what I'm doing ... For example it would be really handy to know exactly which plants I repotted that day in the Qualisorb-heavy mix so I can get them all out. (The aloes in question here are all in 1/2 perlite 1/2 C&S soil)

I'm also not going to top-dress until my new plants establish themselves so I can easily see what's going on with the soil.

I don't know if it's a Turface equivalent, sounds like it's absorbing which seems counter to the desired purpose.

Turface would be for making gritty mix, which isn't made w/mix & perlite, that's the option suggested for those NOT making gritty mix.

Sorry, but I think you're confusing TWO DIFFERENT mix recipes & thereby messing yourself up. Sounds like you might be trying to do too many things at once, admirable but potentially problematic.

I know it can be confusing, but you seem to be missing some of the concepts here.

For instance: if you're already using fast draining mix (say 50/50 mix & perlite) then that has minimized the risk of overwatering & that need not be such a big concern.

Skipping the top dressing sounds good, likely keeping things wet also (don't know, don't use it). Sounds like you're a newer grower & could perhaps benefit from trying to keep things on the simpler side, you know, less is more?

Lena

Most assuredly new to C&S - and yes I'm likely confusing myself with too many infos :P thanks for checking my head.

I'll take it back to basics. Everything I potted up in the beginning with 50/50 perlite/C&S mix is doing well.... But needs way more water than I'm accustomed to (dries really fast.) which is why I thought adding Q would up the retentive mess <- auto correct typo, but actually quite apt LOL

Now I just have to make sure I get to all the plants I repotted with Qualisorb and put that stuff on the back burner for when I know what I'm doing and make an actual gritty mix.

You may not necessarily NEED the gritty mix. While many folks use it, many others of us don't.

"But needs way more water than I'm accustomed to (dries really fast.) which is why I thought adding Q would up the retentive mess <- auto correct typo, but actually quite apt LOL"

When one aims for a fast draining mix, to then add more retentive materials defeats the whole point of fast draining mix (making it slower draining).

So instead, try to water more frequently, since it's fast draining & that should minimize risk of overwatering.

Lena

Dry is totally dry. Toothpick dry, not moist. But Aloe aristata can take more water.

So, my takeaway from this thread:

1. the a. Aristata has some colour from lots of sun, but definitely looks thirsty so do water - since the stem cuttings are not fully rooted, especially.

2. C&S soil with perlite is not gritty mix. Adding absorbent materials does not make it gritty mix. Gritty mix is gritty mix, and I'm not there yet.

3. Sometimes "let it dry" means don't let it dry completely, sometimes it means let it go really dry, and sometimes it means water it more often because it's too dry LOL. Some plants can take more water, some can't, and there's no magic formula. Notebook is required to keep it straight.

:) thanks.

Also wanted to address cactusmch - I watered them on the weekend ... I withheld water after repotting initially until I saw growth, then watered. I was worried I'd be watering too soon/too much, which is why I was on the ledge after 3-4 days and they seemed to want more. The old "when in doubt, don't" rule, eh?

Sorry, but I don't get it -- Let it dry just means LET IT DRY, no interpreting needed. (Don't know where you got all that you wrote in #3, very confusing.)

Again, making it too complicated. You can't learn it all overnight. The more you work w/ it, the more you'll retain the info. A lot of this is watching & observing & learning individual plant families (like Aloes).

Lena

Yes, I meant it to be a confusing statement - as I get all kinds of conflicting info here and it is very confusing.

for example greenlarry wrote:

"Water well then allow to dry."

and also

"Dry is totally dry. Toothpick dry, not moist. But Aloe aristata can take more water."

after I've already stated that my toothpick was MOIST which was why I was here asking if I should or should not water ... And everyone's all "why aren't you watering?" Because if dry is dry and my toothpick is MOIST then ... No water?!?

EGAAAADS

In my experience Aloe aristata is tough as old boots. In most instances of succulents you allow the soil to dry out completely before watering again. But A.aristata is a bit more tolerant. It can even be grown outdoors. But seeing as yours is a survivor of some drastic catastrophe it might be best to be more cautious.

Thanks Larry :)

Lena said:

"You can't learn it all overnight. The more you work w/ it, the more you'll retain the info. A lot of this is watching & observing & learning individual plant families (like Aloes)"

Which is pretty much *exactly* what I was getting at with #3. The "rules" didn't seem to apply - clearly the aloe wants more water but the toothpick is moist. Part of my learning curve, you see.

Some qualisorb is supposedly worse than others, I can't tell you which one I suppose it varies from batch to batch? Is it staying intact or falling apart? is it sticking together too much? It is made to soak up the moisture so obviously it's doing it's job. But it could also be a problem if you have large enough amount of it in the mix. I use turface which is very similar (Q, maybe, holds more water). I found that in a mix, 1/3rd of turface was too much - in 'classic' gritty or in my modified gritty that is made of grit+perlite+turface. I am using much less of turface now, somewhere between 10-20%. I found it just enough to hold on to some water but not for too long. I do have many pots with just grit+ perlite, and some in grit+turface (had to decrease amount of it to less than 50%, it stayed wet for too long).

I stopped using bark in gritty about 2-3 yrs ago since it is hard to find right bark. I would like to use pumice instead of perlite but it is also very difficult to find. I am not willing to pay shipping costs from US, so I have to use what is available. When I water, water runs out from the pot - to me, that is thorough watering. Then I let it dry up for whatever length of time (depends on temps, perhaps some wind that will help it dry more faster, size of pot - smaller will dry up faster, and so on...). I don't remember ever watering succulents day after day, regardless temps and sunshine.

Recently, I was away for nearly 3 weeks. All my succulents are outdoors. I watered them early morning of my departure. It rained 3x while I was away (luckily, it was not torrential rains and wind and hail, and spaced apart approx. 5 days). That is only watering they received. I found 1 dead plant - a cactus that 'melted' - I believe that the rain was too much for it and it was still in it's original soil from the store. From well over 200 pots of succulents, that is, I think, good result.

I have underwatered some succulents from either forgetting about them or from fear of overwatering. They shrivelled a lot, got all limp but luckily survived. Over all, they tolerate quite a bit - but there is no need to 'torture' them on purpose.

Another adherent for the Barkless Gritty Mix Tribe, RIna? We welcome you with open arms and treeless tidings.

bunk, there's a lot new to you. Yes, when in doubt don't, but there are always exceptions. You're not going to learn them all overnight, so don't sweat it. It sounds like your watering's fine. Every 7-10 days, and if they get some rain, that's OK also.

Clear as mud, isn't it, bunk?

I have learned one rule that seems to be applicable to this situation and many others... There is an exception to every rule....including this one..

Sorry, couldn't reply further until I got home from work.

Rina -

yes that is terrific results with over 200 plants :) the Q seems to be holding together - I did do the overnight "mush test" first. Clearly I just added wayyyy too much. I've repotted everything I could find that I used that particular batch on, into dry perlite+C&S mix and will just leave them all alone til I get home from vacation. Lost one string of buttons and possibly my gymno, but time will tell. The gymno roots looked ok. I am going to BC for a week, and I'm going to call around - as I gather they have a pumice mine or two - I'll let you know what I find!

cactusmcH-

thanks for the reassurance :) the only plant I have outside right now is big mama jade, so no rain for the rest of them for now. All moisture is being doled out by ignoramus, here ha!!

crenda -

Cheers! what is a PIG? Also thanks for the reassurance :) I am learning quite a lot all at once, my brain is swimming.

breton -

yup. Clear as mud and I feel as dense as poor potting soil :-P I'll be writing stuff down so I can remember and learn from my trial and error.

Oh, sorry - - - PIG is planted in ground.

Ahaaaa! I want to do a bed next year outside with the cold hardy stuff - semps & sedums mostly, may try opuntia too. My bed is not ready for anything to be PIG this year though. River valley ... 1-2 feet of silty clay soil then solid compacted river rock.

I'm going to be extremely contentious here, but here's the thing:

All this talk on soil type, watering re-potting... frankly, I think it can get overly 'anal'.

I live in the UK. Naturally, the UK does not ever have anything like the right climate, on a continuous basis, to rear, grow, propagate and display cacti and succulents for any reasonable period of time. Generally, they have to be kept and housed indoors, or in a greenhouse, with further allowance made for winter time heating and husbandry.

Yet I constantly see agaves and yuccas, sedums and sempervivums thriving, flourishing and growing successfully in ordinary garden soil and pots.

And I know, for a fact (for I am such a person) that both cacti and succulents can and do thrive in ordinary potting compost, alongside other less apparently demanding houseplants. I have a Christmas cactus (Thanksgiving, whatever!) in ordinary compost. Had it for over 12 years. Re-potted twice in ordinary potting compost with good drainage crocks in the bottom. It flowers, right on cue, every year, and is thriving.

I have several Jade trees. Again, other than ensuring adequate drainage, ordinary potting compost. Sempervivums and sedums, in my ordinary flower border, again, thriving, spreading and flowering in profusion.

The main thing seems to be adequate and sufficiently-strong light. And my plants get that.

My Phalaenopsis orchids are in a South-facing, sunny window. Thriving, good root growth, healthy, stiff, and increasing foliage and lovely periodic and regular blooms.

I have a spathiphyllum (4 blooms) and an aspidistra, two African violets (one in full flower) and a rooting Ginkgo sprig. Two avocados, one mango and 9 pomegranate seedlings. They're all doing beautifully, in ordinary pots, with ordinary compost.

Everything - is thriving. And mostly on 'neglect', it seems!

so frankly, I really believe that getting too caught up in soil type, grit, gravel, pumice, rocks, watering, and all that stuff, can tie a person in knots. As has amply been outlined here!

Ok, someone, slap me down at your pleasure!

Exactly Tara. People seem to get caught up in getting the right mix or the plants are gonna die. Rubbish. I cant afford to get the right compost or additive or this and that, and a lot of the time I end up using general purpose (cheap) compost for all plants. Maybe not ideal but my plants are growing and flowering. I did recently find some john innes compost which I would recommend for c&s but its not 100% essential! Proper watering /light is far more important.

Well said, Tara. Honestly what put my aloe into its terrible condition was a serious lack of light. For 20 years I've used plain old potting soil for everything I grew - and have always been pretty successful :)

I never grew cactus and succulent plants, though. Really the only thing I failed at was orchids and pretty foliage plants like coleus hah. TOO MUCH light I think.

I am getting overly worked up over the mix. I'm gonna bring it back to basics and just make sure I use lots of perlite for drainage. I'll use the Qualisorb for cat puke, or something LOL

I have to admit I spend a lot of time fidgeting with soil mixes (also enjoyable). On the other hand, my mom has the most beautiful Pothos I've ever seen, and she used cheap soil from the 99 cent store. Go figure

Hey Manuel,

Could be your Mom doesn't water her Pothos often, in which case it could be just fine w/ less than optimal mix.

Lena

Lena, when I visit her next week I'll take quality pictures with a real camera, as opposed to my phone, so you can see it.

Dont know how often she waters it, but she tells me when she does, she takes it to the bathroom shower, drenches it, and lets it sit there overnight.

The leaves are green. The internodes are very close together. It's lush, and everyone who walks in admires it.

Turns out that what they did *not* want was water.

The two stem cuttings and crown are ok, lots of roots. Changed out their mix for dry stuff and will leave them dry while I'm gone.

I think I caught all the plants in bad mix... We'll see what I come home to in a week.

Aw, that's too bad. Are you going to try to grow the pups? I would. There's nothing to lose in trying. Treat them like you are treating the cuttings. Good luck!

Thanks :) I think those pups are toast, honestly. They're pretty tiny and shrivelled at this point. I have about 15 pups combined on the stems, so I'll take that good luck and pour it into them instead of water LOL ;)

I'll preach misting 'til the cows come home, and yet...

I'm going to have to be very firm with my house/cat sitter - NO WATER FOR *ANYTHING* INSIDE.

She (or my mom, never did find out exactly who it was) ignored my "Please don't water the plants, I've already done it" when I was away for two weeks in December one year. I came home to a dozen rotted mush African violets sitting in an inch of standing water :( I know she means well, but oh mah gawd. They were thoroughly moist already when I left. I have problems enough at my own hands :P

Jeff

It seems to me that I am the only one against the misting.

But I have to make myself clear: I believe many (not all!!!) ppl just assume that they should mist the plant. Misting the soil should be np, but I still rather put them in gritty mix, in container with drainage hole and water if and when needed. I don't need to worry about not wetting the plant, about overwatering, and drainage. I won't say that everything always survives, but success rate is quite high.

Many don't care about gritty mix; I love it. I can take a hose and water them all outdoors. It can rain and I don't have to take them inside (obviously, not a torrential rain that lasts for days and days - but we don't get that kind of rain; and obviously - not hailstorm...)

I like to make it simple and found gritty to be very simple. Much simpler than hoping to find a bag of 'good soil'. Buying ingredients in bulk is very economical too and I would bet that this 'custom' mix is much less costly than bagged soil. I know that it isn't possible for everyone, especially if no storage - and/or car - is available.

I was, perhaps, bit obsessed ('anal'?) at first, trying to find the right bark...measure exactly...I can go on. Don't do it any more, buy ingredients maybe 2x/year in bulk. I have many other plants - won't bore anybody with naming them, there is close to 100, and many are going into grittier mix when needed to repot. I use some soil for those plants, but no more than 50% and often much less. And yes, I use chicken grit for those too.

Rina,

My comment wasn't directed to you.

Jeff, no, I didn't think so, just wanted to explain why I say 'don't spray/spritz'...and also why I recommend gritty mix

Rina, I'm another who doesn't mist or spray succulents (the very thought of it, yikes), but Jeff & I have long ago agreed to disagree on this ;>)

Lena

Rina,

Lena is too kind here.

Update! I left them dry for a week while I was gone. I watered on the weekend and promptly realized what I'd put them in was *dry fail mix* so I dumped that out and remixed it with 2/3 sifted aquarium gravel and repotted. These poor plants, jeeze.

Plant #1 Crown section is quite happy, yet still with only the single root, go figure!

The other plants, on the other hand.... Wow. I'm ignoring the colour and condition of the old foliage as best I can (look at it, eeeeeesh).

Judging by the new growth, they are actually doing quite well IMO.

Plant #2 upper stem section:

looks pretty rough, eh? (Crown section in foreground of 2nd pic)

But ....

Plant #3 lower stem section

also looking pretty hard done by (again, crown in foreground)

And yet ...

Nice! I still don't get what you are referring to when you say 'dry fail mix'.

I recently posted a thread called "deconstructing the fail mix"... Fail mix was my misguided attempt at gritty mix ... Incorporating farrrrr too many water-retentive ingredients and with a great percentage of particles (over 50%) under 1/10 of an inch... It turned to slurry and stayed wet. FAIL!!!!

i sifted all the small stuff out and am using it as 1/3 of my mix (for the time being) with 2/3 being aquarium gravel, also sifted to remove small particles.