High gas bills, dual fuel?

7 years ago

last modified: 7 years ago

Hello. We are paying crazy high amount for propane gas every month ($330 on the budget plan, every month) with a mostly gas fueled 2600sqft home, full basement and main floor, 1/2 upstairs in central NC. Gas water heater, single furnace (90+ 10 years old) stove and dryer. Our electricity bills in the summer ($150ish) are only about $10-15 more than the rest of the year with our single A/C unit (6 years old Rheem) going. Had a local HVAC guy out to figure out how to fix the high costs and he is suggesting converting our A/C to a heat pump to reduce gas consumption. I will still only have one unit for everything (1 HP and the propane furnace will be "back up"). Does this sound like a good choice? Is there something else I should be considering? We've had insulation blown a few years ago, sealing up all the leaks around doors and windows this summer also.

ETA - He is quoting $6200 for the new unit, install and a few addition vents added in some rooms. Not sure which system.

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Comments (18)

sktn77a
7 years ago
How much are you paying for propane? How much are you paying for electricity? In any event, a heat pump with electric backup or propane backup should cost a lot less than $3300 a month in central NC. What equipment is he proposing (make, model numbers).

I take is you don't have access to natural gas?
redheadsnotwarheads
Original Author
7 years ago
$0.09/kwh electric

$2.33/gal propane

I do not have access to natural gas. I will find out what units he is recommending, he just gave me a call to tell me what he proposed to do about the propane use.
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fsq4cw
7 years ago
At 9¢/kW I would switch to all electric with a heat pump and
get rid of propane completely.

IMPO

SR
tigerdunes
7 years ago
Tell us about your furnace...brand, model, age, and especially efficiency...
redheadsnotwarheads
Original Author
7 years ago
Thanks. I'm not sure how to calculate if it's worth the investment to completely switch over. Our furnace is. 90+ Rheem that's around 10 years old. This HVAC guy tells me that they never installed an exterior intake with it, and that they should have. I'd hate to lose the propane option as we do drop down into the teens some winter nights, we are at the base of the mountains.
tigerdunes
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
get the model of the furnace...I used 90% eff for furnace and 2.50 COP for HP efficiency. See results below to be used as a guide only...you should note that all electric would be cheaper than propane. But even just adding a quality HP condenser with matching evap coil would save you a pile of bux. And your dealer should add an exterior vent for both waste gas and combustion air. Whoever installed that did you a terrible disservice.

Cost per 100,000 btu of useable heat

Electric baseboard: $2.37

Heat pump: $1.05

Propane: $2.83

IMO
mike_home
7 years ago
Are you sure the electric rate is $0.09 per KWh? That is about half what I pay in NJ.
tigerdunes
7 years ago
NC much cheaper than NJ or PA!...
ionized_gw
7 years ago
Be sure all the electric costs are figured in, not just the $/kWh. Yup, with indoor air used for combustion, it is like having a bathroom vent fan running the whole time the furnace is fired.

Wow, electric resistance is 20% less costly than propane. The world is upside-down.

Heat pump performance at low temps has been getting better very rapidly. People in NE are using them as sole heat sources. Greenspeed is a word that comes to mind, but I have no experience. There are some neat technologies coming on line like Mitsubishi's Flash Technology. Be sure that you do your homework or have an installer that is versatile and keeping up.

As an aside, consider changing to an induction range or cooktop. With gas, 80% of the heat goes to the room only to load up your air conditioning in the summer. With induction, about 80% of the heat goes into the cookware and the food. You can try before you invest a lot by buying a plug-in hob.
mike_home
7 years ago
Do you own your own propane tank? If you don't consider buying your own and then shopping around for better propane prices. With the prices you quoted it makes sense to disconnect your propane supply and go all electric.
weedmeister
7 years ago
Be careful looking at your electrical cost. You may be missing something. The most direct way is to divide the total bill by kWh used. That will include all the taxes, tranmission fees, distribution fees, fuel surcharges, etc.
ionized_gw
7 years ago
The idea of your own propane tank raises this question for me. Is inspection and verification of the integrity of the tanks required by any local or federal regulations?

The reason I ask is that I know that there is a regular testing requirement for compressed gas transported on highways, but that is a DOT requirement. I considered buying tanks for our company but dropped the idea in favor of the more standard lease or rental basis. If we own them, we'd have to pay to have them tested on the DOT schedule. CNG fuel tanks in vehicles have expiration dates as well.
redheadsnotwarheads
Original Author
7 years ago
Thanks everyone. I'm still waiting on a call to find out which heat pump he is proposing but I did verify what I have.

$0.10/kwh confirmed

$2.88/gal propane

Current A/C is 7 year old Rheem 3 ton 13SEER RANL036JAZ and matching coil.

Furnace is a Rheem Classic 90Plus from 2004.

Water Heater is 2005 40gal State Propane water heater (in case that needs to be replaced soon too, should I go electric here?)
tigerdunes
7 years ago
Curious...what size is your furnace? BTUs...

TD
tigerdunes
7 years ago
Obvious electric will be cheaper to operate than a propane fuel water heater...of course, if you lose electric power, you lose your hot water...I think you have to weigh factors like the rental if any on your propane tank...I probably with stick with existing propane hot water heater unless you plan to go all electric with your heating/cooling system...

IMO
redheadsnotwarheads
Original Author
7 years ago
I can't find the model on the actual model on any of my paperwork for the furnace, where would it be on the unit?
tigerdunes
7 years ago
Should be on a name plate...either on the outside of the cabinet or perhaps on the inside of the control panel door...

TD
PRO
Brennan Enterprises
7 years ago
Have you considered looking into replacing old windows and doors? This will help prevent heat and air loss from your home, which in turn will reduce your high utility bill. New windows and doors can also make your home safer AND protect it from unpredictable weather patterns.

We understand that you're looking into alternative options, but investing in new doors and windows will also increase the value of your home, making it easier to sell in the future if you so choose.

Best of luck with your projects!

High gas bills, dual fuel?

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sktn77a

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