Vladimir thanks for the Turface tip...It was hope that many here who are struggling to find bark knew that Agway actually sells the best for the 5.1.1 mix. I thought many were not aware of it, or at least I thought here...

Mike

Thanks for the close up shot Mike at least I know what to look for.

Shoot, I wish there was one in NC

Monica, I'm in NC 7b too and found Daddy Pete's Soil Enhancer around here. It's 100% Aged Pine Fines. Worth a look.

I've was unable to find Agways too, sadly.

Monica, what dos that aged pines look like? I'm curious. Sounds like a good alternative.

Thanks Calamondindave. I was able to find that at Homewood Nursery here in Raleigh.

Mike - here are some photos

In addition to my Calamondins I also purchased a Tangelo and Moro Blood orange. I'm giving citrus another chance, since I'll be getting a greenhouse. The last 6 months have been all about Hoyas.

Pretty trees. How nice to be getting a greenhouse.

Cory

Mike I discovered Agway this year. I wish I had space for a pallet. I ordered 6 bags earlier and I will be ordering six more soon. How do you store them?

Nice looking new trees! Lucky you to have a greenhouse. I'm saving up for one.

Hope Daddy Pete's Soil Enhancer works out for you too. It's the best bagged aged pine fines I could find around here. I made some 5:1:1 mix with it and potted some trees, they all seems to be doing fine. Good luck!

I don't have the greenhouse yet. I will be ordering it by the end of the week. Contractor on call to do the foundation and add plumbing and electricity. It should be completed in time for the citrus trees.

Great Monica! Which one are you getting and how big will it be? Will it be attached to your house or stand alone? How exciting for you!

Cory

Monica...Funny you should say Hoya, that is one plant I have seemed to acquire more than citrus then back to citrus...lol I have so many Hoya and I can think of anyone to share cuttings with..Many hard to find ones too..I love them. So easy to care for. I just hang mine up under my trees and they go ballistic..Smell so fantastic to boot!!1

I LOVE the looks of that bark! It looks like you don't even have to add any peat at all..Just perlite. Am I right? Do you ever mix any of that with Repti-bark or use it straight as is?

Tropicofancer...I will store them as in their bags as is unless I am about to use one. Then I will strain out the large pieces with a 1/2 hard cloth and soak the bark in a huge barrel for a couple of days up until use....The I put lime and let sit for the same about of time...)

Cory - I'm leaning toward Palram Essence 8x12. Maybe a little bigger. Everyone tells me you run out of room really quick.. It will be free standing right next to the house. I'm also choosing a pea gravel foundation instead of poured concrete because if this hobby goes south in several years, I don't want to have a slab of concrete in the yard.

Mike - I love my Hoyas! I only have a few that are big enough to bloom. I have pots hanging all over my screened porch. I actually have used soil conditioner before but not this brand. The last one I had to screen due to a lot of saplings. I'll need to repot the new Dancy this weekend as the soil is extremely sandy so I'm going to try this brand and just add perlite. I also stopped using reptibark and use Orchiata. I can get a 40 liter bag for $35. plus shipping. It also comes in several sizes which is great for the Hoyas too.

If you ever find yourself with Hoya cuttings that you don't know what to do with, I will gladly take them off your hands for $.

Cory this is a photo of the silver 8x12

Monica that greenhouse looks great. I presume you are planning to have some sort of heating system too.

Mike did I ever promise you a dwarf gardenia grown from cutting? I know I did promise someone but I cannot remember who. And I cannot even locate the thread where all this happened during last winter.

Monica, it looks beautiful. I felt the same as you when I got my greenhouse. I wanted it separate from my house in case of a fire and if I have to use chemicals they wouldn't get in my house. I never use strong chemicals though anyway. I built mine on railroad ties about 2-1/2 ft high with a bluestone floor. I also wanted to easily take it down in case I no longer needed it or might want to sell my home and the next person might not want a greenhouse. It has worked out well. The railroad tie knee wall raises the whole roof higher and it is nice to have the extra space in the roof. I often hang plants in that space and it is nice to have as your citrus trees grow taller. The gravel floor is good as it keeps the greenhouse humid. Spray the floor on summer days and the humidity will rise and also drop the interior temperature several degrees. One disadvantage of the gravel floor is when you knock over a plant and spill the contents it is hard to pick it out of the gravel. Also you can't clean the floor with a broom. I solved this problem by putting those square rubber mats that fit together like jigsaw pieces in the aisles and sometimes even under my benches. It is easy to sweep the spills and plant debris with them. You will need fans to circulate the air. This is very important to prevent mold and disease spread. Get automated vents so you don't have to be there to open them. The spring and fall months are difficult to monitor without the automatic vents as the temperature can be unpredictable and change quickly and you may not always be there to do it manually. I have water, gas, and electricity in my greenhouse which makes it very convenient. Get yourself a remote temperature monitor so you can know what is going on in there at least when you are in your house and better yet when you are away. You will also need a backup heater if you heat with electric in case the power goes out. Always good to have a backup no matter what fuel you use to heat in case the heater stops working for some reason. You will be surprised how often you may need a backup. There is a learning curve to using a greenhouse, but you will have so much enjoyment from it. Make it as large as you can fit on your property and that you can afford. They fill up fast. I wish you much happiness with it.

Cory

Awesome summary of important points to consider on such a large purchase Cory, thank you! I really appreciate this myself.

Cory, thanks so much for all the great tips. I want to add a small slop sink and was thinking of a French drain so I can clean the gravel occasionally with a bleach solution to try and keep things as sanitary. Does this sound like a good idea?

We've been thinking of getting a generator for a while now and I guess this makes perfect sense to do now.

I just bought 5 more trees so I may need to get that bigger greenhouse :-)

Monica, it will be the best thing you ever did for your trees! You will love going in there in the winter! Just make sure you determine ahead of time whether you will keep it as a cool greenhouse all winter, of a nice and warm one. Citrus can handle either or, but many tropical plants can not handle the cool such as orchids and the such.

You would not even have to bleach your gravel at least I would not. You would be surprised at all the beneficial insects that thrive in your gravel even once summer is gone that still do their job of killing the bad pests in there.

What I have done is laid down a fresh carpet of fake sod, the ones you can buy in a roll at Lowe's for a cheap price. Lay it out like a carpet and then you can sweep all you want while the inside stays moist every time you water, right through winter.. If you have the room, dig a hole big enough to drop a big empty plastic tote in it and then fill it with water. You can put a grill over it or nothing at all and fill with water. I never have a humidity issue this way, even on the driest of days. My Orchids would die without these methods to keep humidity at bay, even as the sun heats it up in there.

Yes, Cory is wonderful with her ideas since she has a remarkable greenhouse. Investing in a good heater on the coolest of days, probably not to bad for you would be good and an electrical box out there protected from the elements a must. Good air circulation and mentioned and vents which this one comes with. I would install and auto vent that opens once it starts to get too warm in there which this company has since I have the smaller greenhouse from them)

Monica, you would not have to pay me anything for cuttings...If I can come up with some eventually, I will keep you in mind!

By the way, you don't have to have full grown plants to get flowers..I have many less that a year old already putting out tons of blooms..Feed feed feed and they will come)

Torpico, I think it may have been me since I am in love with them and I have asked a few people for a cutting of it. You may of been one of them but I honestly forgot(. But if you're the mood, why not? )))

Monica, I wrote another tips message for you yesterday. but it hasn't appeared and I really can't remember what all I wrote. But I will try again. I don't have a sink in my greenhouse anymore just because I do not have room. I used to even have a small fish pond in there, but I just have too many plants and have removed that also as much as I enjoyed it. I do set up one of those black plastic rectangular mixing pans you see in HD and Lowes and use that to mix soil or use as a sink to soak used pots when I need a sink. I have a water spigot in the greenhouse with a hose and hot water. The fine misting setting on the hose sprayer comes in handy to provide humidity as well as to water the plants. I use a water splitter at the spI got so I can hookup multiple hoses that attach to humidifiers, fertilizer portioners, etc. I don't have any problem with moss, mold, algae, or weeds growing on my floor but I have a lot of air circulation with fans in each corner and an exhast fan in the peak. I have a weed barrier under the 8-10 inches of bluestone flooring. Keeping the air moving is essential to prevent disease and fungus. I do wash down the walls, roof and floor about twice a year to prevent disease, usually when I take most everything out in the spring and again before I bring the plants in again in the fall. My greenhouse came with built in benching, but I removed it after a few years as I can fit more trees in without it. The trees get too tall on the benches so now most sit on various height plant stands to keep them off the cooler floor like those in your picture or I make shelving using wire closet racks propped up on the plant stands or cement blocks so I can keep my configuration flexible as the size and variety of plants changes. Ask when you order your greenhouse about putting 6 inch support bracing bars up in the peak aong each panel as that will make the roof much stronger and you will be able to support lots of hanging plants without risking collapse of your roof, especially if there is snow load. I hang many of my higher light loving orchids up there. Hot air rises so it is warmer up there than down near the floor where I keep lower light and cooler growing plants there under the citrus trees. Your roof looks steep which is good as any snow will slide off right away. You also should order a dropped door kit so you can wheel your plants in the door without having to lift them over a foundation block or wall. I have a Freeze Alarm in my greenhouse which runs off a phone line. I think it cost about $200-$300 but it is very good as you can call in to monitor the temperature in your greenhouse when you are traveling or at work and also know the voltage of the backup battery if there is a long electricity outage. You can provide up to 3 phone numbers the system will call to notify you if there is a problem that the greenhouse is not maintaining its temperature or it is getting too hot in there. If you are away you can call one of your friends to go check on it for you. I think there are cellular systems available now too. If you are running pipes or electric line underground out to the greenhouse, that is the time to run the phone line out to the greenhouse in the conduit even if you don't plan to have the phone line out there. You won't have to dig again later if you decide you would like a phone line out there. There is also equipment you can add to your computer which will monitor humidity, temp, light levels, etc through a phone line. I guess that can be remotely done now too. There are also lower tech remote sensors that work wireless but are only good for about 100 ft, which generally works ok from your house if someone is always there to hear and monitor them. Those are only about $25 I think. I find that they are not always reliable when the temperatures get really cold though for some reason, and that is when you need it the most. It is always important to check the greenhouse every couple of hours on really cold nights to make sure everything is ok. I now use Aluminet shade cloth which really helps to keep the greenhouse cooler in the summer. I think it provides 60% shade. I originally had a black plastic knitted fabric which provided 70% shade but that seemed a little too dark to me and I think the Aluminet keeps it cooler even though it let's in more sunlight. To provide humidity in the greenhouse you may be able to provide enough by just wetting down the greenhouse floor in the morning. If that isn't enough, you can use that misting hosing that comes with mister heads spaced about a foot apart. If you put it on a timer you only need to mist for a few seconds every hour or so. Keep it low so it doesn't wet your plants leaves. You could also hook it up to a hgyrometer set to the humidity level you want to maintain to automat it more precisely. This is a relatively cheap way of maintaining a constant level of humidity. For about $350 you could get a centrifugal mister that provides a finer mist and hook that up to a hygrometer which costs about $100 and you will have a very fine humid atmosphere which I use for my orchids. I do not think the citrus trees would require that much humidity so just wetting your pea gravel floor might be all you need. If you put in electricity, put in a few outlets as you will want to put in a heater, or 2, some lights (even just to see in there if there is a problem), maybe a centrifugal humidifier, a couple of fans. I had to get more put in, and it is good to have them spaced at either end and maybe the middle of the greenhouse. I use UV bubblewrap on the inside sides and roof of my greenhouse. It saves a lot on heating costs. Many others throw a solar pool cover over the top, wrap it up like a gift package and tie it down with bungee cords, plastic deer fencing, wood strips etc. Again, it really conserves on heating costs and lasts for several seasons. I am trying to remember things that I had to learn about. Just ask if you can think of anything. Others will probably chime in with their experiences. You don't need everything at once, but it is good to start thinking ahead. Have fun!

Cory

If it's not too late gas heat might be cheaper depending on your gas rates. Pretty much if your not on propane gas heat will be much more cost effective.

Wow, thanks for all the great info Cory! I'll need to print this thread do I don't miss any of your suggestions.

What part of Jersey are you in? I'm a Jersey girl! I've been in NC for 11 years (minus 2 years living in France).

Pip313 - gas is definitely cheaper than electric heat. I'll have to check into details about running a gas line.

Getting back to the bark...

Mike, would that bark work for the 1:1:1 gritty mix also? I bought the mini nuggets from Agway thinking they would be good for the gritty mix but they are too big and it is very time consuming to break them up.

I have used that mulch for the gritty mix and it works fine. You will need to screen through 1/2 inch sieve to discard the large pieces, then through 1/4 inch to get rid of the fines.

Monica, I heat with natural gas. I have 2 Southern Burner heaters. I was able to run the gas, water, electric and telephone lines underground from the basement in my house as I heat my house with gas. The company also makes propane furnaces. Their thermostats run off the gas current somehow so you actually don't need to run electricity to them so they will keep operating if there is an electrical outage. You also do not have to use a battery operated thermostat which could be another option for the thermostat. They sell 2 different types of thermostats that run off the gas generated current; one you just set to a temperature, and another that you can set a day temperature and a night set back temperature, but that one is quite a bit more expensive. The daytime temperatures usually rise more than 20°F from the night temperatures anyway so I have no problems getting my orchids to bloom that need the day/night temperature differential. These heaters supply radiant heat and the heat is actually pretty constant from the floor to the ceiling so you don't have to supply electricity to run a blower fan, which again is good during an electricity outage. In my house I have hot air heat, so when the electricity goes out my furnace blower and igniter doesn't operate in my house but the greenhouse heat keeps working as no electricity is required. My greenhouse heaters are both vented because I grow orchids in there and most don't tolerate even a small amount of fumes from a gas heater. So my greenhouse has 2 chimney pipes that rise several inches above the roof. You loose some energy efficiency with the vented furnaces. There are also non-vented versions of these furnaces. Monica, I live 15 miles west of NYC. I remember you telling me you were once a Jersey girl.

Cory

Vladimir, what percent of the bark is left after screening through the 1/2" and the 1/4"? Also, doesn't Al recommend between 3/8" and 1/8" for the bark fines?

I never measured the proportions. When making 5-1-1 mix, I would guess that you end up with 90 % of the mulch being smaller than 1/2 inch. It has been a while since I made gritty mix so I rely on memory. I think about about 70% was between 3/8" and 1/8".

Yes Al does recommend between 3/8" and 1/8", which is what I use.

I would 85-90% for the less than 1/2 inch is about right for the Agway pine bark. Another 10-15% is less than an 1/8 inch. For the gritty you need between 1/8 to 1/4 and I have not done that with the Agway pine yet. But I would say 50% of the total should be between 1/8 and 1/4. Pretty good yield in my opinion.

Mike I will get in touch with you when my gardenia is rooted. I have two that I started a week or so back.

Good info all around on greenhouse tips. Someday I will get one. Right now it is the covered porch for me.