"I certainly did not intend any negative comment about Greer Gardens." Nor did I! Agree with your comments about him, and I felt lucky to have briefly met him a few years ago. Definitely one of the grand-maitres of American Horticulture. "is that the heat and humidity of southern NJ rather severely limits the rhododendron varieties that can be grown." Well, not sure I agree. Not w/severely anyhow...though I can see why it seems that way from Maine. I would posit a nursery trying to be what Rarefind is trying to be...and survive well into the next decade...would *have* to be w/in reasonable driving distance of the Big Apple. Again, there's only so many people who are going to be willing to shell out for high-class dendrological amusements. That eliminates a lot of places from consideration. And, yes, the place isn't filled to the brim with every known fussy R. wardii hybrid, but the climate is certainly not as bad as it could be. Their soil is actually quite good for rhodies. Rarefind could never have happened outside DC, for example. To me, in 2006 when I first visited, I could not believe a rhodo garden could even look like that on the east coast. Such was the diversity of colors and plant forms. Also NB their winter climate permits them to grow, outdoors, some of the hardier camellias. To survive they need to market a broad range of plants. Showing plants outside helps that marketing effort. "Many of the micro producers, which are often one person operations, just won't be able to justitfy the expense and increased labor requirements necessary to take that step." Hhhmmmmm. This guy was a 1 person operation for a long time: www.desertnorthwest.com I admit it's maybe a little less feasible with rhododendrons, that I broadly see as more tedious to produce than most nursery commodities. I mean, a lot of shrubs, if you don't want to bother w/cuttings, you can just gather some seeds, plant them, and have saleable plants in a couple years. Not w/most rhodies, and especially because most people don't want seedlings. I just noticed a Callistemon seedling in my garden, that was already about 5" high from a dropped seed this spring. By the end of next summer it would be ready for sale. My attempt to raise rhodies from seed have been very frustrating. They are so darn slow, and the last of mine just rotted out for some reason. BTW Cold winters notwithstanding, a Callistemon is a lot harder to kill than most rhodies. That little plant apparently sailed through the very dry spell we'd had in the past 3 weeks, surviving bone dry soil in about 80% full sun. Even in shade I bet any spring sown rhodo seedling would have died w/o assistance.

Where did you see the 20 ft height for the Emmit's Pumpkin. I'm more of a dwarf tree collector and have that japonicum on my short list as a dwarf. I guess a lot of JM will eventually get to that size but I'm thinking a lot of them on your list will take some time. The Emmit I believe would grow more like a semi dwarf---- average about 8" a year under normal conditions. If my math is right that would take about 30 years to achieve the size you want. Also your true dwarfs are growing about half that rate but still growing. My point is that you should be looking for vigorous growing trees not the tallest. You have done the research and probably can answer better than myself. Is your above list compiled by rate of growth or just mature height of tree. I would think rate of growth would be what you are looking for here. The Emmit just called my attention to this thread. Its a beautiful tree that i thought was a slow grower. I see after a fast google search that it may grow intermediate. Different sites may have listed it as dwarf. Anyway it looks like you put a lot of research into this subject and I was just looking for clarification on the subject.

Please do not miss Phipps! It is not what you remember, unless you have been here within a year. Sadly, your visit will be after the Spring Flower show, and before the Butterfly Forest debuts, but there is PLENTY to ooh and aah over. There are docent led tours and free public programs on the weekends. You can enjoy the outdoor garden for free. The National Aviary on the North Side is another suggestion. How about the zoo in Highland Park? Beautifully landscaped, but the real stars are the new baby tigers and elephants. They have also brought back polar bears, which were missing for quite a few years. These are all easily reachable, even on a bus! Remember, our last frost date in mid May, so gardens and nurseries are only going to be beginning to open the weekend you are here. Here is a partial list of nurseries from last season. Here is a link that might be useful: Nurseries List

Y'all are too funny. The 'panic' statement was NOT aimed at or inspired by any one person, but don't y'all think there's a little bit of that "oh no" panic in all of us when we discover one garden pest or another has arrived? I just figured it was that time of year, and wanted to encourage everyone to view their garden/yard/landscape as an ecosystem and understand that ecosystems need balance, and that includes a balanced bug population. The only people I know who have really serious insect issues are the ones who routinely spray broad-spectrum chemical pesticides (and I have folks around me in the country who do this too, it is NOT restricted to only city folks) every time they see a bug. Once they've wiped out the good bugs, there's no one left to help them with the bad bugs, and bad bugs always rebound more quickly. Andria, bugguide.net is a good bug ID site and there are others, but that's the one I use the most often. Bt products should state on their label which Bt they are, unless it is clear in their name. The ones I buy have an Ingredient list and specify which Bt in that list. Bt kurstaki is sold in many products, and often it says Caterpillar Killer in large letters on the label. You'll find it in Thuricide and Dipel, among other products and, yes, the caterpillars you see on cole family crops are controlled by this form of Bt. The 'san diego' strain used for Colorado Potato Beetles will feature a Beetle somewhere on its label or in its name, like the product 'Colorado Potato Beater". The 'israelensis' strain used for mosquito larvae will have mosquitoes on the label and is found as mosquito dunks or as a granular product you can sprinkle into ponds and other still bodies of water. To avoid harming butterflies, I try to use Bt 'kurstaki' as little as possible, but it would be hard to get a good crop of cabbage without it. I don't spray the broccoli though, and I don't spray tomato plants with Bt to kill hornworms and fruitworms. I just handpick them when I find them and count on the help of the parasitic wasps. Boomer, Thanks. I think we have more than two kinds of gardeners here...we have many kinds and we all just do the best we can with what we've got. I gardened in a big city until I was 39 years old and moved here. I remember when folks sprayed DDT for everything when I was a child. Heck, I remember us kids running or riding our bicycles in the 'mist' that came out of the tanker truck when the city sprayed for mosquitoes. (It is a wonder the chemical exposure didn't kill us all!) I've tried raising a big 8' x 10' garden in a yard that was 95% shade, and was thrilled to have 6 tomato plants. I've done square foot gardening. I've done container gardening. What I do now is Biointensive gardening the John Jeavons/Alan Chadwick way. It works better for me than anything else I've ever done. You have to work with what you've got, and we've all got different challenges. And, in case you're thinking it is easy out here in the country, let me tell you.....I have ranching neighbors who spray large amounts of chemicals and it sometimes causes me problems. You just have to deal with the hand you're dealt. I get very frustrated when their herbicide drift kills or damages plants in my garden, but there's really nothing I can do to prevent it. I don't think pesticides are used as much as they used to be out here, but they're still used at a level that makes me uncomfortable. In one very, very bad grasshopper year, so much junk was sprayed to kill grasshoppers (and it didn't kill them!) that many songbirds died. We didn't see a single bluebird for over three years. During the last decade, I've seen a big shift in attitudes here...even the diehard chemical-using farmers and ranchers are trying really hard to do things in a much more sustainable way, and that gives me hope. They used to laugh at me, the organic nut, and now some of them ask me "What would you do for....." and I try to give them the best organic answers I know. Being more sustainable and 'green' is in, and that's a really good thing. Still, even though I prefer to garden as naturally as possible, I would defend anyone's right to use a chemical product if that is what they believe is best. I just think there's a better way. I don't even like using pyrethrins/permethrins because of their toxicity, and I would never use Rotenone. Neem is OK, but I only use it as an absolute last resort...so maybe one time every three or four years. I avoid most soaps and horticultural oils because they can burn foliage in hot weather. I guess, when it comes right down to it, that's not much I use other than hand-picking, squishing, or drowning pests. I do like Spinosad and love iron phosphate/Spinosad for the sowbugs and pill bugs. I use Nolo Bait every few years for hoppers (this probably will be that year....based on what I'm seeing in terms of how large the current nymph hatch is). I use more companion planting than anyone I know, and I use the companion plants either to attract beneficials and pollinators or to repel unwanted pests. I always describe my beds as a crazy quilt, because each bed is a blend of veggies, flowers and herbs. Some of the 'old farmer' types here refer to my companion plants as 'your weeds' but I just laugh it off. In case you think I don't get that little panicky 'oh no' feeling when I see a sudden influx of pests, you're wrong. I get it too. Then, instead of reaching for a chemical solution, I work on using a natural one. There have been a couple of times that I panicked and bought a chemical pesticide, and then couldn't force myself to use it. lol Guess what? The pest issue resolved itself and I didn't lose my crop or even a significant portion of it. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing, but it has taken me my entire life to arrive at the point that I understand that. When we moved here, we had lots of pest insects, and seemingly few beneficial insects. I worked really hard for 4 or 5 years to control the bad guys and attract the good guys, and finally had one of those years where the good guys showed up and took care of the bad guys. There were a couple of years like that, and then one year, the good guys didn't come. Do you know why? Because our population of pest insects was too low to support the good bugs. It took me a while to understand that, but then it was an 'aha' moment and I finally got "it". Laura, I loved your description of your ecosystem and all the wild critters in it. I think it is simply wonderful that your daughter is learning so much at such a young age. Debra addressed the lady bug issue....all shapes, sizes, colors, including solid black ones. I've even seen pink ones here. They're pretty cute. Jleroi, Some of the most fierce battles I've ever seen are between praying mantids....but there's all kinds of life-and-death-drama between the various wild things every day. It is fascinating! Tigerdawn, This wasn't aimed at you. lol You're going to be fine. Trust me. I have a gardening friend who used to reach for the pesticide every time he saw a bug and has just decided to wait until a certain level of damage is being seen. Guess what? He rarely sees the damage rise to the level he thinks is 'too much' and now he realizes that the insects are not nearly as damaging as he thought they were. Glenda, My friend, Fred, is a big Sevin user, but he's really backed off in the last few years, and I can't tell his garden has any more pest issues than it did before. I think that after years of giving me a hard time about 'hogging all the bees', he finally decided to stop spraying so much and see if his bees would come back....and they did. He proudly stopped by one day recently while I was working outside to announce that the bees were working his fruit trees like crazy. I was excited for him. Dorothy, I think I'll look and see if Rodale has a bug guide somewhere online. You'd think they would. I used to have a great insect book, but I must have loaned it out or something because I can't find it now. All of you might get a big kick out of this: one year when our son was in high school, they had to do an Insect Collection, which of course was not high on any teenager's priority list. Once our son's classmates realized we had every bug in the world here at our place, some of them came by to 'catch bugs'. I wasn't sure if they thought it was great that we had so many bugs, or maybe terrible that we had so many, but they were able to catch all the different kinds of bugs they needed in just a couple of hours! Then they all worked together to identify them, and that helped me learn the names of some of the more obscure bugs, like Southern robber flies. After that, we were the 'go-to guys' for anyone doing a bug collection...nieces and nephews who lived in 'nuked' neighborhoods in Texas, DH's co-workers kids from Texas, etc. Need a bug? We've got 'em here. : ) And, once they came here to collect bugs, they learned we had lots of wildflowers.....which then gave them an idea where to come when it was time for the Texas kids to do a wildflower collection. Dawn