I think that Trump and others like him sensed a vulnerability and weakness that they could exploit by expounding (dishonestly) on how really awful everything is in the US. We are darn lucky that we didn't go into a depression in 2008-2009-2010. It could have been much worse. I also think they are the types who would have been among those yelling, "America, love it or leave it!" back in the 60s. Ironic, huh?

oh and one more note- "Last I read, the majority of the population of London is no longer British." If they voted, they were British...unless non-citizens in the UK can vote.

ETA:. I think Blair nailed it Mtn. The final sentence sums it up pretty well.

Another Pinko-Commie-Liberal chiming in to say that I'm just so glad I live in a world where Obama was elected not once but twice. And now a strong, well-qualified woman is next. Trumps a big sh*tbag and will never win.

As far as politics in general, I think this craziness is cyclical. This too shall pass.

Trump is atrocious. But his appeal is really not hard to understand. He's pandering to all of the people who the media and most politicians on both sides of the aisle dismiss as stupid and uninformed.

Articles like the Washington Post about people googling "what is the EU" (and who knows if those people even voted or which side they voted on) and comments like David Axelrod's about the education disparity of leave versus stay voters are a prime example of why a lot of people are flocking to Trump.

They are tired of being told by so-called experts (whose ideas seem to work a lot better on paper than in the real world) that they are stupid for not getting on board with this vision the elites have dreamed up for how everyone should be living their lives. And Trump knows exactly what he is doing (just look at his I love the poorly educated comment).

People are also really sick to death of the status quo and with justifiable good reason. I do NOT under any circumstances think Trump is the answer, but I don't think people care any more if he does what he says he will. They just want something different!

This article on the Federalist is an excellent summation of how American politics went mad. It was written in response to an Atlantic article by Jonathan Rauch about how our politics are screwed up because we took power away from parties and insiders.

http://thefederalist.com/2016/06/22/the-persistence-of-washington-delusion/

The stability the elites maintained was a stability that accrued to the benefit of Washington and its attendant Versailles on the Potomac hangers-on. For roughly the past two decades, it did not accrue to the benefit of the electorate.

We have breakdown, chaos, and upheaval in our politics today not because the people are “insane”, as Rauch writes, but because they are sane. They know the leadership class which held power for the past generation has not looked out for them. Don’t blame a people for turning on elites who thought they knew better but proved over and over that they didn’t. It is thoroughly rational to want something else instead. Even if that something else turns out not to deliver either, at least you know it’s not the same as what’s failed.

If you disagree with Rauch, there is a mountain of evidence on your side. If you agree with Rauch, you’re left arguing that what Washington really needed was more Eric Cantors. And that, my friends, is truly insane – the sort of desperate argument one only advances if you can’t make sense of what you’re seeing in America’s politics.

And I'm chiming in to say I'm glad there are so many of us pinko commie liberals! Hopefully enough to elect Hilary.

The scary thing is that it's apparently the same type of voter there that voted to leave the EU that supports Trump here....and they were successful. I'm fearful this will create more fervor for Trump and he could pull off a win.

Great piece by Tony Blairr Here

Tony Blair?

He is reviled in GB....considered a war criminal.

A toady for Clinton and GW Bush.

Tony Blair should have no say in any of this...

MTG, Tony Blair and his sentiments absolutely belong in my pinko commie liberal post! Because his comments on the extremes of the far right AND the far left are so apt. I could care less what the Brits or you think of him, his OpEd comments are apropos to my thread.

Beagles, This really is a place for people to co-miserate, more than debate.

England's middle class is only something like 15% and falls into the moderate economics category . From there you have very high economic elite 6%, Comfortably high economic established middle class 25%, Technical middle-ish with high economic capital 6%. All the rest falls into the poor economic category. Within the poor economic category are many new or newish immigrants. I Would be surprised if the immigrants voted to stay out.

I wonder how our election is going to go after this vote. All their polls where wrong.

I've got lots of room!

I had two thoughts this week that I really didn't have anywhere to park so I'll park them here.

This Onion article really struck me.

"Frustrated Nation Out Of Ideas To Solve Gun Violence Problem Except For All The Obvious Ones"

http://www.theonion.com/article/frustrated-nation-out-ideas-solve-gun-violence-pro-53134

The other is that I had to visit the emergency room two weeks ago and have emergency surgery. I didn't have my provincial health card on me as it had expired. I walked out without a bill. The following week I called the hospital to make sure they had my new health card number but it was already in the system. That was the end of my financial responsibility. A surprise incident that could ruin an American's life financially and I didn't even have to sign a form.

I do feel bad for the British about Brexit. I do think essentially being in a recession is to blame and makes people more xenophobic and more apt to embrace populist politicians. It makes sense because the status quo isn't working for people financially so they wish to try anything different. Unfortunately usually different means worse. I think we can all only be our best and most intelligent and welcoming selves as a species when we don't feel threatened.

Sorry to hear about your surgery, Robo. I hope you're having a quick recovery.

Love your last paragraph, Robo.

Most importantly, I hope you are well.

Robo, hope you're recovering all right. National health care in Canada is truly a wonderful thing.

First reactions to Brexit in Europe:

Express, UK: End of the EU?

Oh it's so nice to have fellow pinko commie liberals to commiserate with here! I live in a relatively poor, very red state (as of late anyway -- it did give us Bill) and other than my immediate family, a few friends, the adorable young couple that bought the house across the street, and a number of my law partners, I have few fellow liberals to commiserate with here.

As for Trump, I agree with Neetsiepie's analysis of his base of support. P.T. Barnam had it right and Trump knows how to the play to those suckers. I can at least understand and appreciate the rationale of many more main stream republicans, even if I disagree and I have several good friends who are a bit more like Beagles in that regard. We simply agree to disagree.

The problem is, none of the issues really fits well on the side of a bus. Or a hat.

Click here, fellow John Oliver acolytes

It's somewhat comforting to learn America isn't the only country with a large population of not-smart people. the Anglophile in me, though, is very disappointed!

They are already starting a petition for a re-vote. There is already over a million signatures.

When occupy happened, I remember how the news and the politicians ridiculed them. Then they were swept out and it was forgotten as if the anger never existed. Politicians thought the people would just bear it patiently. I went to 3 Bernie rallies and the atmosphere was positive. Young people want to solve problems. They are welcoming and kind. It was refreshing to see. I don't want them to get discouraged. If they get apathetic or angry and join with the angry Trump crowd things could get bad here.

I love the UK and don't want to see anything bad happen to them. I'm hoping people wake up here and start taking the situation seriously before something worse than Trump happens. When corporations write our laws and influence courts then the majority of people will just be insignificant. I'm glad it's being talked about but I hope people don't lose interest after the election. We always look for change from the top but over in the Bernie camp they think the best chance is from the bottom up.

You are right, KItty, change does come from the bottom up. The top is not so interested in change; after all they are at the top already!

I like Bernie Sanders. I am not on board with him 100%, but I'd vastly prefer him to Trump. I feel that, at least, his heart is in the right place, he is smart, genuine.

Here is an article by one millennial on the negative effects of Brexit:

British millennials like me are the real losers in the
Brexit vote

Decades of chaos have been unleashed by a generation of voters that barely possesses the digital literacy to use a USB stick.

Over the course of a single night, baby boomers have
rejected expert opinion and torn apart my generation’s future. Why? Because a vague
notion of making our country “great again,” combined with an infectious
hysteria about immigration, was enough to convince them that things have to
change. They were so convinced, in fact, that they were happy to vote for Leave
without any definition of what “great” looks like, and no road map to actually
achieving it.

British millennials

I can forgive the UK anything because they produced John Oliver. Going back to ModernTropical's remarks about Tony Blair, if I may......I don't have that animosity for Tony Blair. I feel like it hurt him politically and in a deeply personal way to make the decision that he made to join us in Iraq. Maybe I'm naive.

I can really identify with mojomom. I live in a thoroughly red area of a vastly red state. I have only one coworker that is a Democrat, out of about 300 people. I'm sure there are a few more, they just maintain their anonymity. I've told the story before about a coworker who brought her daughter to meet me because she had never met anyone that voted for Obama.

Thank you for a pinko commi commiseration thread, Mtn. And for the John Oliver link! I would have had to wait until next week to watch, I only have HBO Lite (whatever it is on Apple TV).

Hmmm, according to my brother in-law in England who is in his sixties and voted to stay in...those who voted against staying in were in the 18 to 30-ish age group.

Your brother-in-law was wrong.

BREXIT: HOW THE NATION VOTED

Below are the latest figures from pollsters YouGov,revealing that young people voted in their droves for the Remain campaign.

18-24: 75% Remain

25-49: 56% Remain

50-64: 44% Remain

65+: 39% Remain

'This vote doesn't represent the younger generation who will have to live with the consequences': Millennials vent fury at baby boomers for voting Britain OUT of the EU

• Young Britons voted in droves for Remain with 72 per cent against Brexit
• Leave campaign won, with 56 per cent of 50 to 64-year-olds backing Brexit

Ironically, there may be more illegal immigrants to Britain.

Illegal immigrants aiming to cross the Channel say Brexit
will make it EASIER to sneak into Britain because France will no longer try to
stop them

Mayor of Calais has called for migrant camps in French town
to move to UK

Natacha Bouchart says Brexit means 'England must take back
borders'

Currently migrant checks are conducted by British officials
in Calais

Migrants believe French police will no longer stop them
sneaking into UK

Migrants living in the jungle refugee camp in Paris have praised the Brexit vote claiming French authorities will no longer block their passage to Britain.

French politicians reacted angrily to the referendum result, with the Mayor of Calais seeking the removal of the controversial refugee camp claiming the British government should deal with the situation.

Asylum seekers make nightly attempts to sneak on board trucks looking to cross the Channel, but are often intercepted by French police.

Currently border checks are conducted on the French side of the Channel with many migrants living in the infamous Jungle camp.

But now the the understanding, known as the Touquet agreement, between France and the UK has been called into question following Britain's vote to leave the European Union.

And mayor of Calais Natacha Bouchart says she will be pressing for the agreement to be suspended.

She told French broadcaster BFM TV: 'The British must take on the consequences of their choice.

This echoed calls from Xavier Bertrand, the centre-right president of the Hauts-de-France region, who tweeted: 'The English wanted to take back their freedom, they must take back their border.'

Prior to the referendum, a French government minister had warned a vote for Brexit could see migrant camps being moved from Calais to Britain.

Illegal Immigrants

Well, I have no idea of the real numbers now Lucystar. Not sure how accurate Yougov is. They have over the last couple of years been criticized for just doing "online" polls when not all the population over there has Internet access. Also, this poll research for media company underestimated the 2015 conservative lead over labor so bad that the British polling council set up an independent enquiry to look into the causes of apparent bias.

So, those figures could be right or wrong.

Edited : Lucy, my husband relayed the message wrong from his brother ( I have since spoken to them). What the brother said was WE voted with the 18 to 30 something's to stay.

The best way I guess to get an average on stats is look at many.

People are scared, but we survived two world wars and the economic aftermath of the first one. I don't believe that civilization is declining. I think it's changing. And change is scary. Especially, if you feel you have no control over the events that are impacting you everyday.

So many political leaders seem to turn a deaf ear to people's fears. Many people are losing their jobs. They are having them outsourced to third world countries. Many people see their tax money paying for immigrants, who may or may not include a few terrorists. And many people are no longer feeling that their future looks promising and their children's future will be even better.

Is that true? Who knows. But as long as there are people, who are see themselves as being ignored....they will look for someone they BELIEVE will listen to them. And that can be a very dangerous time.

ModernTropicalGlam I am a child of union workers, my dad and stepfather (Pop) were shop stewards. I know that all of the benefits that I have received in my working life were fought for by union members. Pop never went past grade school, but he was a brilliant man, and when the first talk of outsourcing occurred, he said to me "that's the end of manufacturing in the US." It is the CEOs who put shareholders and profits over jobs that we should be addressing, and the laws that allow them to get away with takings good jobs away from all.

It is the CEOs who put shareholders and profits over jobs that we should be addressing, and the laws that allow them to get away with takings good jobs away from all.

(full disclosure, I am a capitalist pig by profession, and a pinko-commie liberal by marriage, and an independent voter every time except Obama)

Unfortunately, it is more complicated than that. It is the job of a CEO to put "profits over jobs". If she does not, she will be ousted. If you own stock in a company, you want it to make profits so that your investment is rewarding. If you work for a company, you want it to be successful enough to stay in business. And if you have a company in your town, you don't want to relocate to a jurisdiction that makes them more profitable. It is not the job of CEOs to make social policy, and I would not want them to because they are not hired or elected to make social policy.

It is the job of our government to facilitate job growth, and to create an environment where corporations can be successful (if only so that they continue to exist!) but are also liable to meet certain societal norms for minimum health and welfare of their employees. That's a lot harder to do (ie balance competing interests), and it does not fit on a bus, but that is what I want my government to do.

It is not my area of expertise, but I personally think that unions were very good for the middle class and would like to see them regain strength, so that individual workers get a bigger piece of the pie, and maybe prices go up to , but on the whole the economy is more equitable.

Young people, Scots, Northern Irish and Londoners in the central city voted overwhelmingly to stay. What I want to know is what was the turnout of the young voters.

Yes, with the stats posted above, what are the demographics in the UK and who turned out to vote.

From what I read, the young people did not turn out to vote in sufficient numbers. I will see if I can find that graphic.

Last night DH and I watched Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next" figuring we'd at least get some good laughs, but, honestly, it was more depressing than anything else. The interesting point is that many of the concepts that are successful in other countries were take from the U.S., and we have gotten away from that.

Pinko commie here a little late (I had capitalist pig duties to perform). I'm sure that most of you have already heard about the petition for another referendum. Maybe you've even seen the website that counts the signatures?

http://keithharris.org/petition/

Do you know about its origins though? It's not something cobbled together by sour grapes remainers. Nope. The seed of it was the brainchild of leading brexiter (and insufferable ass) Nigel Farage. In May he was worried that the Leave effort might lose and promised he would push for a second referendum if the final vote was close. Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way."

Then along came William Oliver Healey, a young brexiter with an idea. Why not put what Farage suggested into play? He created the petition "with the intention of making it harder for ‘remain’ to further shackle us to the EU".

How's that working out for you, Wills?

LOL, darcy

I heard a really fabulous commentary. They pointed out that politicians from both parties in England had really ignored their constituencies true wants for many many years all the while promising real change which they did not deliver. Reportedly many of the voters believe that the reason why things were not being addressed was because of the EU rather then poor domestic policies.

I believe that this exact same logic explains why Trump is so popular. Our entire country is set up to cater to the 1%. Rather than admit that Trump aspires to be part of the 1% and will destroy all of us to do it. Angry people are likely to vote him into the office completely ignoring his really awful personal track record.

Strangely if the EU falls apart, that removes a huge economic bargaining block and the US is likely to benefit from that in the long run.

Yes, gsciencechick Michael Moore's "Where to Invade Next" is excellent and in spite of its title has little to say about the military...highly recommend it

"Rather than admit that Trump aspires to be part of the 1% and will destroy all of us to do it."

Trump is already part of the 1%. That's not to say that he doesn't want more...

Trump is a classic demagogue. On The Media had a rather sobering segment about this fact recently...

http://www.wnyc.org/story/stop-demagogues/

Transcript is linked @ top, if you'd rather read than listen. 1st story below is also quite good (So You've Got A Demagogue).

& the encouraging news is over 3 million have now signed a petition to re-do the referendum.

Practigal,

I agree that no one has done anything. I am not sure about what they can do. I think we should start a new program on the order of the space program, bringing together the best minds to come up with ideas about how to grow the middle class and improve their lot. Unfortunately, even typing that sounds socialist. And I am not. But it seems to me that globalization and mechanization marginalize all but the best and brightest. What to do?

Worse yet, even things that the majority wants, don't happen because of gridlock. We don't have a political center anymore.

Regarding demographics, there is a strip of very wealthy, elite citizens west of London to about Oxfordshire who likely had a strong turnout, and this area voted to remain. So it wasn't just the youth who voted to remain, but probably those with significant investments who believe leaving will impact their financials.

Well, can we call it socialist-lite? The right wingers would insist that Social Security and Medicare, which most of us have now paid into up for our entire lives, are "socialist" and should be stopped. I couldn't disagree more. The name game is proving to be quite a problem in US politics; one which is being exploited by our politicians. Sort of like a whole argument about Obama not being willing to say radical Islam. So he says it. The world doesn't end. The world also doesn't get better. It's got nothing to do with the problem it's just a name that distinguishes that problem from other problems.

I think that there is nothing wrong with us expecting to have jobs with reasonable pay in a reasonable work environment and not destroy our overall environment in the process. But we allow almost anything to happen in the name of "capitalism" that too is a name, much abused at this point in time.

Maybe we could bring back another name: ethics...morality. The next thing up on the agenda is libertarianism, the principle of non-aggression, we won't tell you how to live your life so you don't tell us how to live ours. That we 1% have control of 99% of the money, well, don't tell us what to do. And we won't tell you how to starve. Again some morality and ethics are required.

Sas95 no I believe that Trump is just this side of bankruptcy. The man believes in debt. He is not part of the 1%. He has almost no equity I am sure and that is why you were never going to let you (us) see his tax returns.

PG,

Debt, but not personal debt. He is in fine shape but he runs his companies with a lot of leverage that he can walk away from because it is non-recourse.

I agree that morality and character are part of the problem. I am not a fan or organized religion, personally, but it did provide a compass for many that is now missing. Now people look up to the Kardashians instead.

$4.5 billion

http://www.forbes.com/profile/donald-trump/

As we all know PM David Cameron has offered his resignation effective October and as of today the Labour Party (the opposition) is in a state of chaos with multiple MP resignations and an attempted coup of the leader Jeremy Corbyn.

Found a graph of turnout by age.

In trying to get through some old NYers, I came across this in an article from May 2014 by Joan Acocella:

In the most recent edition—DSM-V, published last year—the primary characteristic of narcissism is grandiosity. Narcissists exaggerate their achievements and what they are certain will be their future triumphs. They believe that they are special and can be understood only by special people, of high status. They feel entitled to extraordinary privileges. (They have the right to cut in line, to dominate the conversation, etc.) They show no empathy for other people. They envy them, and believe that they are envied in return. They cannot tolerate criticism.

I read the definition to DH and asked him if it made him think of anyone and he immediately said the name that came to my mind as well.

Snookums2 keep in mind that Elizabeth Holmes had $4.5 billion per Forbes but Forbes recently revised hers to $0....Trump could experience the same fate.

It is a good thing for us to talk about before our election. The U.S. has the same problems. Interesting to me that younger people see themselves as global citizens more and more.

Following a discussion with young Londoners online I came away with this-

People need work in order to get food, shelter, family stability and for some it provides a framework of social interaction and personal growth. So most people need work of some sort just to meet basic needs. Technology continues to progress, reducing and eliminating jobs. But people still need jobs and find themselves longer training or education to get the jobs that technology has not replaced or have been outsourced to cheaper areas. Not everyone can afford the education or training so there is a lack of available good jobs for most of the population.

The question then becomes when there are more people than jobs how will these people provide for themselves? Young people are already delaying starting families. Will there be a large welfare class? This isn't healthy for society. People are happiest when they are contributing to society and meeting their own needs. Do we create work we don't really need to keep people employed? That seems like wasted potential. And who want a meaningless job anyway? Will robots and machines eventually do most of the work so that basic needs are met freeing people to pursue education, science, the arts or other meaningful activities? Will this lead us to a greater love and respect for the planet and all of nature ? I would like to see a peaceful relationship between humans and a golden age of knowledge and cooperation.

I know it sounds Sci-Fi but why not? It's great to hear young people talk like this. They feel European and some feel global. The trouble is, we are in the in between years and we can't know the future and haven't decided which path to take yet. This is a tricky time for humanity and I hope we can leave the worst ideas behind in the past instead of trying to carry them forward (terrorists) and be optimistic about our future (young people from Europe and the Americas and Australia, etc.) I mention these groups that's who I was talking with online. Young people all over the world want peace and prosperity.

If robots do all the work, then what are the "lazy" people suposed to do. A lot of conservative politicians would have us believe that we are all just scum when we are not working, what would happen if there were literally no jobs? Unfortunately, when young people don't have anything to do many seem to turn towards drugs and alcohol and then get saved by radical religion... Unfortunatly I don't see them pursuing them enlightenment or a golden age of knowledge....how to light that spark...?

I agree. Some people will just sit if they don't have to work to live. But do people get into trouble because they feel desperate or living in a bad area or are they going to get into trouble regardless?

The young tech people I talked with said tech and robots will eventually get the jobs so we need to figure out what to do with ourselves. If everyone is going to get into trouble when they aren't working to live then the future looks dark.

I am hoping inspiration will come and people will reject drugs, gangs, terrorism and all the rest and turn their time on earth into something productive. I have listened to people talk about turning their lives around after prison and working together to get rid of the violence in their neighborhood that got them into gang culture when they were young. There is hope for the future but our time is full of difficulty to be sure.

Yes, just think how washing machines, dryers, dishwashers have freed us from the drudgery of hiring household help. Or how computers have freed us from working 9 to 5, but instead have let us be at work any time, anywhere.

Funny how the leisure class in Britain didn't complain about not working.