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wantonamara

Vegetable Gardening Prohibited Again!

I was sent this story about a teacher in Memphis who is using his yard to teach some seniors. Things like this always make my blood boil. I think our founding father's forgot to mention that right to grow your own food because they could not imagine a world where it wouldn't be self evident and taken for granted. It is worth a read.

http://kitchengardeners.org/blogs/roger-doiron/stand-solidarity-adam-guerrero?utm_source=Kitchen+Gardeners+International+List&utm_campaign=e9d88f6926-September_2011_Newsletter9_20_2011&utm_medium=email

Comments (51)

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Our founding fathers forgot a lot of things...like people of color are human beings and women being capable of participating in government.

    That said, it was a pretty damn good government document compared to many others.

    ...and let's get these stupid codes under control already. Yeesh. It's bad enough when home owner's associations ban front yard gardens...it's worse when government code enforcement can let a complaining neighbor or some outdated post-WW2 "clean lawns" law get in the way.

  • wantonamara Z8 CenTex
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think people should have the right to grow food on their land along with the right to breathe. Kinda "self evident" in my book. It should go without saying. As long as things are neat and not a health risk.

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  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A lot seem to be poorly or broadly written "land beautification" laws put forth since we ripped up Victory Gardens in this country. They're supposed to punish the drunk down the road or absentee landlord who doesn't mow or otherwise maintain their front yard property...dragging land values down of surrounding properties.

    It's nice to see the home garden make a comeback. It's a shame the front yard is all some people have to work with, but yeah...common sense should be applied in enforcement or the laws re-written not to punish those who's gardens aren't comparable to the drunk down the road who never mows his lawn.

  • wantonamara Z8 CenTex
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually, often the front yard has the best sun. My backyards were always shady and the front had the sun. I grew my toatoes in the front yard in Austin Texas. I was talking to a friend who is a lawyer in Memphis who say that the judge is not that bad of a guy but the court is the court that deals with all the abandoned lots and run down disasters and people will have a fir if nothing is done. She says the neighborhood is a very diverse modest neighborhood full of gardens and chickens so she was actually surprised that they were going forward with this. Memphis does have a problem with urban blight so people can be blind to it in some areas and belligerent about it in other areas.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The vegetable garden is not expressly prohibited per se. That is not the problem. The nuisance ordinance is poorly written for our times today.

    Dan

  • tommyr_gw Zone 6
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is BULLS^&T! This country pisses me off more and more every day. Our system is total S&*T IMHO.

  • Joe1980
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It doesn't seem to matter to our government what our founding fathers wrote. As most people know, we're supposed to have the right to bear arms. This wasn't put into the bill of rights because our founding fathers liked to shoot stuff and play cowboys. This was put in there so that we the people could protect the freedom of the state. So, how well has this worked out? Not so well, the government has been regulating our right to bear arms for a long long time now. Funny thing is, laws are for the law abiding, so banning guns has done NOTHING to help keep us safe from criminals, who could give a crap about laws.

    Anyways, you can see that even if they had put something in the bill of rights that says we have a right to grow our own food on our own property, the government would still do what they want. The bill of rights was written exactly for what is happening to our country right now; the stealing of our freedom. We now live in a society of political correctness, where the government has to try & get their fingers into literally everything. So, when one wacky person complains about something, in this case a garden, they step in and make rules that effect ALL of us. I'd like to have a good look at the garden in question here, to see if it is actually a mess, or neat & orderly; I'd bet on the latter. The problem here is that the complainer is more of a nuisance to the city, and the way for them to deal with it is to crack down on the "offenders". If the city did nothing, I'd bet that the moron that is complaining would just keep on complaining too.

    A little common sense is all that is required to keep the nuisance ordinance effective. A vegetable garden is NOT a nuisance, assuming it is not scraggley and unkempt. All it would take is someone with common sense to have a quick look at it.

    Joe

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The process of making bio-diesel can be pretty obnoxious smelling, no doubt that is what generated the complaints rather than vegetables. The only plant that is illegal to grow is cannabis, I think. Some plants are restricted by state. Other than that there are no federal or state laws restricting food plants that I know of. Most municipalities restrict live stock, which I find quite intrusive.

    Might as well get angry about associations that ban hanging laundry. There is a real stupidity.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Harrumphing umbrage and garment rending aside, this is a function of local control, just like the Founding Fathers wanted.

    There is nothing wrong with our country that can be gleaned from this issue, which is a nuisance ordinance that needs to be updated by staff, if there are any left.

    Nuisance laws are notorious for bringing the hand-wringing; there's a recent thread in the organic forum about similar. Surely if there is enough attention, staff will be diverted from something else to re-write.

    Dan

  • nancyjane_gardener
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey! What if the drunk down the road has the best yard on the block?!?! What then????? LOL Cheers! NT

  • Joe1980
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm not quite sure what "Harrumphing umbrage and garment rending" means, but it got a laugh out of me because it sounds funny. Anyways, I'm pretty sure the Founding Fathers did not want THAT kind of local control. In fact, they wanted the PEOPLE to be in control, and we are far from that. Ultimately, states cannot go ahead and override the bill of rights. Sure, many of them have done so, without challenge, but many have done it WITH challenge, and lost. My point with the problems of the entire country, in relation to this case, is that we are being controlled by busy body government officials more and more each day. Lets look at a few examples:

    Fluoride: It is put into all municipal water, because the government says it's good for our teeth. Now, I'm not getting into whether or not it is, but the fact of the matter is, if you have city water, you are getting fluoride whether you like it or not. You have lost your freedom to choose whether or not to ingest fluoride.

    Ethanol: We all know this story. It's bad for our engines, causes more pollution then gas when you include production, uses massive amounts of fresh water, and requires government subsidies. The government mandates that we use 10% in our gas, whether we want it or not, on the grounds that it is the future of fuels, and is good for the environment. If it's such a good product, why can't it sell itself instead of requiring taxpayer subsidies?

    Lightbulbs: Starting on January 1, 2012, 100w incandescent light bulbs will be banned. Yep, you are now going to HAVE to use compact fluorescent lamps, whether you like it or not. Some of you in the warm zones may not see a big problem, but try putting those things in your outside lights when it's below zero. They just don't work, not to mention they have mercury in them, and are contaminating landfills.

    Food: Some may not know, but our choices in food are under attack. Cookie Monster is in line to be banned, because cookies are "bad for you". The first lady has gone after a large restaurant company, who run several large restaurant chains. They were pressured into agreeing to not serve french fries to children, because fries are "bad". McDonalds is under attack because the toy in the happy meal makes kids want to eat fast food. Same with the signature clown; makes kids eat burgers and fries. The last time I checked, it was ME that took my kids to McDonalds, and the clown and happy meal toy didn't persuade me.

    Now go down to your local levels. Wanna raise a couple of chickens so you can have fresh eggs? Too bad, it's not allowed. Rather then making an ordinance to prevent people from being sloppy with their chickens, they just ban them. I see no problem with someone having some chickens, so long as they keep it clean.

    You may ask yourself, "what in the world is this guy babbling about, and what does it have to do with this garden story?". Well, for the time being, the guy in this story is being nailed under a nuisance ordinance. But, get enough complaints that trellised vegetable plants are unsightly, pumpkin vines are scraggley looking, or the corn is too tall, and the laws will start saying we can't have vegetable gardens. You may think it's far fetched, or that I'm crazy, but who would have ever thought lightbulbs would get banned? Ask some of our older generations, who used to have chickens in their yard, if they ever thought chickens would get banned. My whole point here is that unless we the people start standing up for our rights, we'll just keep losing more & more of them, both on a local and national level. This is the last free country in the world, so when your rights are gone, where are you gonna go?

    Joe

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "It doesn't seem to matter to our government what our founding fathers wrote."

    I'm sure the over 1/2 the population that is female or of color appreciate that what they wrote doesn't fully matter and isn't taken for gospel.

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "We now live in a society of political correctness"

    Have you turned on a TV in the past 20 years?

    Your fear of society is a bit shocking. Things aren't bad. My neighbors have chickens, too...and I'm in an urban area.

    You want to know how that happened? Let's watch government at work...

    1- after going out of style for decades people started to keep chickens again

    2- some people complained and tied it to old laws

    3- citizens and government worked together and figured out how to maintain the scope of the old law while allowing chickens to be kept because citizens actually cared enough to let the government know it

    4- chickens became law-ordained legal rather than being grey area legal

    The sky didn't fall, liberals didn't eat anyone kids, Obama was still born an American, and Rush Limbaugh still got to go on the air the next day and put fear of government into people.

    We live in one of the best countries in the world. Lightbulbs or political sports side-picking isn't a reason to sell it out.

  • Belgianpup
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    People need to stop backing down on this idiocy!

    The bureaucrats and government control freaks will keep pushing until people start fighting back and insist that they're not going to take it lying down.

  • cheapheap
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is very sad. I don't think this is entirely a problem with local government, it may have more to do with neighbors not respecting neighbors and using their inflexible local government as a weapon.

    The problem that was mentioned in the article is that there was a 'complaint!'
    The city/local gov. was tipped off about an infraction and the wheels were set in motion.
    I would like to think that the neighbors had talked and reached an impasse - but the notice from the city was probably the first that was heard of an anonymous neighbor's complaint.

    To avoid this type of situation, perhaps a good start would be to not accept anonymous complaints on land-use issues. - Then perhaps this type of situation could be resolved to some sort of satisfaction without using public resources to settle petty private disputes (if people were willing to stand up and state their case, a solution could be found).

    Happy Gardening!

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Joel, that's a new twist of logic: an obviously needed attempt to control the mega-corportions that are themselves the ones who are reducing Joe citizen's food choices seen as a violation of your rights.

    Your right to be abused and poisoned by monopolistic food industry giants? If people want to eat nothing but fries they ought to at least know something about the origin of the oils the spuds are cooked in and the barren monoculture chemically-burned wastelands where the potatoes are grown. This comes full circle since the waste fry oil is what the fellow in question is making the bio-diesel from.

  • wayne_5 zone 6a Central Indiana
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    pnbrown, The trouble is that regulators cannot stop regulating. They must keep busy and use those grants and monies to keep the money and power coming.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually, Wayne, in this instance the regulators have not updated their nuisance ordinance. Maybe if they have any staff left they can re-write, else the community will have to continue to languish under outdated ordinances until someone pays someone to draft a new ordinance.

    I also agree about the 'neighbor complaining' point. One isolated complaint shouldn't result in this. But again, short staff and no time to investigate. We get the government we want.

    Dan

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, it's all about complaints. If no neighbors would complain, I could keep a milk cow in my yard. But then, would I like everyone else around me to have livestock? Not really, nor do I want to smell bio-diesel cookers. I also don't want to smell dirty oil-burners from people's basements, nor do I want their dogs running through my garden.

    What is regulated and what isn't, what is enforced and what isn't doesn't always make much sense.

  • spogarden
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I put asparagus in one of my front beds and get compliments on the pretty ferns. I also took out a lot of ugly bushes and planted blueberry's, which turn a lovely red in the fall. You can garden without making it look like a garden.

    But I agree that you should be able to plant what you want, as long as it is maintained. I see a lot of people get excited about gardens in the spring, but then never weed them. They turn into an overgrown mess. I don't understand why you would put in all that work and then not take care of it.

  • girlgroupgirl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am so LUCKY to be living in Atlanta, where they are making huge strides to make Urban Gardening not only acceptable, but the norm. It is an amazing way to feed a food desert. We have many areas here like Chicago and other cities that have no grocery store nearby and low income properties. Actually many residents of wide backgrounds are choosing to live in low income neighborhoods to create diverse neighborhoods. When there are few food options, growing food or buying it from urban farms near you is such a positive thing to do. Your lack of proximity to poor food sources almost forces you to eat well from these gardens! Our City even has a contest right now to design the perfect urban garden for the new City Hall farm! First hand our mayor has seen the work of people like Rashid Nuri and others, and how it fosters community and brings together all peoples.
    There are many cities, like Memphis, and our neighboring city here of Decatur who have tried to squelch urban growing in high visibility areas simply because some Americans are hanging onto the notion of very Victorian ideas of grass and shrubs at the front of a house. It is very suburban in nature, and it doesn't make sense to me. Who in their right mind would want to pay for chemicals and water to throw on something that you have to buy grass and engage in manual labor to mow? What sense does this make (you can argue until you are blue in the face, but still, it is a crazy notion in the grand scheme of things). What we need to do is to change our thoughts on beauty and what is acceptable. Perhaps making biodiesel in the backyard of densely packed neighborhoods is not the best option (maybe somewhere someone will allow them some space to do this, without it offending people's nose) - but growing stuff and having a front yard garden is not a horrible thought.
    I have large front yard vegetable gardens and my neighbors and passers by LOVE them. They are beautiful and full of flowers and food. The design is thoughtful and I try (although I don't always succeed) to keep them very neat and tidy and completely weed free. Some city officials HATE my yard. They have made no bones about the fact they want grass and only grass because of their own personal aesthetic tastes, and it's totally silly because then they try to exert some crazy low level governmental personal "power" over me to conform (which tends to only get them into trouble, since I am doing nothing wrong!).
    I wrote a letter to the justice of this case, pointing out that if a person does a portion of something that may break a rule, only that part of the equation should need correcting: if it's biodiesel that is only one tiny part of what these people are doing. Leave the rest be.

  • Joe1980
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    nc-crn, as for the TV thing, yes, actually I see plenty of TV. Wanna know what my observations are? Probably not, but I'll toss a few out there anyways. I turn on MTV, and this new song by "Foster the People" called "pumped up kicks" is on. I like the song, so I watch the video. Amazingly, they blank out the words "gun" and "bullet". Then, I see a Rihanna video called "S&M" which talks about having sex, with a lot of detail involved. Nothing was blanked out in that video. So, it's ok for our kids to hear all about dirty sex, but God forbid they hear the word "gun" or "bullet". So, when I say "political correctness", it's not the literal defintion of the word, it's the liberal left's definition. For pete's sake, we're not supposed to say "terrorist" anymore, because we might offend a terrorist.

    Another thing I must point out, is that your accuse me of selling out, which is the complete opposite. I love my country, and that is why I am a bit concerned with the direction of it. I also would like to note that I have no fear of society. I just see a pattern of laws and mandates that are attempting to change our society, which has been just fine, and needs no changing. I am just getting quite tired of laws and mandates that change the way I have to live, and a great majority of them are useless. The lightbulb thing really bothers me, because there is absolutely nothing wrong with them. There never has been. But, pretty soon I won't beable to buy the 100W bulbs I use in my garage door opener and outside lights, and for what reason? Because Obama and his eco-nuts don't like them? That's a load of BS.

    Pnbrown, if you find something objectional about a "mega food company", you can simply not buy their products. That's the joy of freedom. If I go to a restaurant, and I want to order my kids some french fries, I should damn well beable to. But, pretty soon, some restaurants won't allow me to. Does that sound like freedom to you? I never said a person doesn't have a right to know where their food comes from, and they should. But after that, they should beable to choose. I'm all for promoting healthy eating, but I'm not for forcing healthy eating. I can only imagine what kind of laws will ensue once Obamacare takes full effect. Hopefully it'll be repealed, because where are the Canadians gonna go for good healthcare?

    Anyways, I think I am guilty of dragging this thread WAY off topic, so I'm gonna relax with my jibba-jabba. Back on topic: I think girlgroupgirl makes an excellent point in her post. She says how she has a front yard garden, and some city officials HATE it. This is what my point is about government. If the right people, or wrong I should say, get control, they will simply tell her to remove it and put grass in, or face penalties. Something similar happened here in WI, where an 80 something year old man was told by the government that he had to plant wetland plants on his waterfront property. The cost to do so was about $5000, which the man did not have. Shortly after, he had a heart attack, and about 3 weeks later, he was literally thrown in jail for not planting what he was told. Sad isn't it? There are many of stories as well about people being fined and/or arrested for having front yard vegetable gardens, when they refuse to remove them.

    So, with all that said, my closing words are that if you read this and laugh, well, you'll be shocked someday when it is YOU that is the victim. If you read this and get angry, then it's YOU that's part of the problem, for either ignoring it, or encouraging it. Anyways, I'm finally done running off topic.

    Joe

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm surprised the Patriot Act didn't drive you to move to another country if light bulbs, Viacom self-censoring themselves, and french fry fears are this important.

    The situation that's the topic is being handled, and if history is any indication it will be handled to the benefit of the people. That's freedom in action. It's a lot harder than complaining, though. It requires major effort from one person or a lot of minor effort from many. It's how things have been done since we were a colony. If you're going to ignore the many that have won similar battles then you're never going to be happy about government in action.

    We're talking about laws written in those "good ol days" you're pining for, btw. They need correcting for the modern era and that's challenged through the courts or legislation. That's how our country works. Our patent enforcement laws also need work and some of us are out there doing something about it rather than blogging about it.

    Also, I'm not afraid of Viacom self-censoring, french fries being banned when they're not being banned, or having to buy a 120w light bulb rather than a 100w light bulb.

    aka...I AM NOT A VICTIM, but maybe YOU are a victim of your own political fear.

    French fries, light bulbs, and a multi-national corporation self-censoring itself...thank God you live in a country that gives you the spare time to work yourself up over such issues. It's a shame you think these are the forefront of endangering freedom, though. Sad, isn't it?

  • Joe1980
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Huh, I don't recall ever saying french fries were being banned. I've talked about them having plans to not serve them to children at CERTAIN restaurants. Anyway, forget about it, it's time to move on. It is literally impossible to have a rational discussion when you keep putting words in my mouth, or just don't understand what I'm saying. I don't know where you keep getting this "affraid" thing from either. But, I've done my fair share of discussions on these topics, and as usual, those on the left like to put words in people's mouths, lie, and insult. Sad isn't it?

    Joe

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah, it's hard being a victim, evidently. I wouldn't know.

    ...and shame on the big bad whoever that lied to you and insulted you...tell me who they were and I'll send them a strong letter of condemnation on recycled paper.

  • Joe1980
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Write the letter & I'll tell you where to send it.....

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    haha. awesome.

    Don't let any of this get to you...I'm sure it's not.

    We're just pixels on the internet passing through, guy.

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Joe, just to clarify a mis-conception, since you brought it up: Obama is 100% pro-business, pro-wealth. If any government oversight agency is making life harder for Micky-D, et al, it is despite the current admin, not because.

    You are quite right I can boycott fast food, and I do.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    12 years ago

    Joe, standing ovation to everything you've said. Without entities like french fries and cookies, how would we learn moderation and careful consideration before making choices? I'm blown away when people don't realize that supporting freedoms means also supporting them for other people and not just yourself and your personal preferences. But in this case I think a couple people who posted just aren't capable of understanding what you are saying. It's obvious from their comments directed at you that have nothing to do with what you said and/or just plain bizarre comments at something you supposedly said but didn't.

    groupgirl, I hope you come back to this thread. I'm curious if you have done any reading on this subject? I like The Lawn; A History of an American Obsession by Virginia Scott Jenkins or Redesigning the American Lawn; A Search for Environmental Harmony by Bormann, Balmori, and Geballe.

    Anyone else?

    But back OT, the court date for this gardener is today. Along with everyone else, I'm anxious to see what the outcome is.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    12 years ago

    If any government oversight agency is making life harder for Micky-D, et al, it is despite the current admin, not because.

    Isn't a "government oversight agency" part of the current admin? This makes no sense. It sounds like you are saying the government is doing something despite the fact that the government doesn't want it done. What??!

  • wantonamara Z8 CenTex
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yea, I am interested in todays outcome.

    First they take french fries and then they take away the tirimisu, and they take the the Hagandas. OH NO! The laws that have been passed on the Federal level this year about organic gardening if ever they are enforced are draconian in what will be forced down the throats of the backyard gardener. The fact that the First Lady has a organic garden on the front lawn is an insult.

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Purple, I kinda like it that you follow me around asking obtuse questions on various threads. Hopefully you are learning things. To help in your continuing education: the Presidential administration is distinct from the Federal civil service agencies.

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Some of you are not going to be happy unless you can live in fear...and not call it fear...yet do nothing about it.

    Enjoy your heart attacks, strokes, and being generally pissy around your fellow humans.

    The rest of us are busy living life rather than worrying about talk radio lies.

    Yeesh...

    ...and some of you need to figure out who's really lieing to you because there's battles being fought that don't exist. Thankfully these battles aren't really being fought...they're just being arm-chair complained about.

    The rest of us are busy working on and with the world.

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "The laws that have been passed on the Federal level this year about organic gardening if ever they are enforced are draconian"

    You've been lied to.

    Chain mail spam and fear blogs aren't truth. There's no need to fear something that doesn't exist even though it's the in-trend to fear anything government based.

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Without entities like french fries and cookies, how would we learn moderation and careful consideration before making choices?"

    Well, don't worry about it because they're not banned...they're not banned in "certain places"...they're not going to be banned...it's all just fear people want to buy into because for some reason this fear is just awesome to buy into.

    A fringe politician in San Francisco tried to ban Happy Meals...it failed. Some schools are phasing out french fries...big deal. It's not banned, it's a local decision WHICH CAN BE OVERTURNED IF THE COMMUNITY CARES ENOUGH TO DO SO. Yeah, you gotta get involved rather than complaining...it's hard...might as well not do it and just complain on blogs.

    Hey, I can't buy lead based paint even though it's cheap and has great fire resistance. Poor me. The world is ending. We might as well be socialist commie nazis. This is the worst thing I've ever experienced in my privileged life.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You've been lied to.

    Hopefully they weren't all a-feared enough that they were still able to click on the 'Contribute!' button.

    Dan

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I seriously don't know where all the "sky is falling people" were during the 70s and 80s.

    I remember this kind of anger that the government would dare to make people wear seat belts...motorcycle helmets...take away their lead paint...ban phosphates to preserve water supplies...etc.

    Evidently government only started to "meddle" in our lives 10 years ago and we're all going to be government prisoners making wallets for Chinese businessmen in 1-2 years.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Evidently government only started to "meddle" in our lives 10 years ago and we're all going to be government prisoners making wallets for Chinese businessmen in 1-2 years.

    Note that this new meddling is about property. A little longer than a decade ago there was a movement in DC by lobbyists to change property rights at the federal level. That failed, and the campaign was shifted to the state level as a Private Property Rights (PPR) movement. This culminated in 2006 with stinging defeats of initiatives in several states (AZ was bundled with something else and passed, throwing land-use planning in turmoil and adding costs (and the initiator of the entire project is not covering)]. We await the billionaire brothers' next salvo.

    [/history hat]

    Dan

  • Joe1980
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    nc, to clarify things, I am not getting worked up over this. When I posted the part about where to send the letter, I was chuckling about it, and I knew you would too. It was a sarcastic remark, one that we would have laughed over had we been having this discussion in person. I have these types of "arguements" at work with guys, and although we are on different sides politically, we are still friends. In fact, we sit and poke at each other when someone from "our side" does something stupid, which seems to be ALL the time.

    Pnbrown, no offense, but are you insane?!?! If you really think Obama is pro buisiness and pro wealth, you don't know your own guy! Obama is a "spread the wealth" guy, which means TAKE money from the wealthy, and give it to the "low class". This is not a misconception; he ran his campaign on this, and was proud to do so. The only problem is that the beneficiaries of this are a lot of time people who don't work, and don't want to. Anyways, enough on that.

    Look, to sum things up, I am NOT stressing over french fries, light bulbs, and any of the other stuff I talked about. These are just examples I used. The main point to my babbling is that we are grown-ups, and we can make our own decisions. I don't neew someone to tell me fries are bad for me; I already know it. I really don't eat fries much, because I don't want to have a heart attack when I'm 45. Heck, I started my garden because I wanted to eat healthy. But, just to clarify the whole fry thing, they are not being banned. They are being removed from kids meals at certain restaurants, and because people don't believe me, they include Olive Garden and Red Lobster. They agreed to do this due to pressure from the first lady. But, the last time I checked, most people don't go to these restaurants to order fries, although sometimes that's all kids want, so the parents should beable to decide.

    All in all, my ultimate point is that the "nanny state" is getting a bit carried away. What ever happened to personal responsibility? We shouldn't need the government to make us reduce our french fry intake or to reduce childhood obesity. We as parents should have enough sense to beable to make these decisions on our own. So, with all the back & forthing going on, lets all not forget that we all have gardening in common, and that's actually the reason we're here. No hard feelings.

    Joe

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    He's not my "guy", and he's no robin hood, either, Joe. I voted for Nader, as always.

  • Dan _Staley (5b Sunset 2B AHS 7)
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Obama is a "spread the wealth" guy, which means TAKE money from the wealthy, and give it to the "low class". "

    snork

    Lots of standard phrasing and typical template message aside, the topic is outdated nuisance law in a particular town, and the telephone game arising from its misunderstanding.

    Dan

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Talk radio talking points...get your talk radio fear here.

    Step right up and pretend we're in the middle of a country doing something entirely new and pretend your way of life is under attack.

    This message brought to you buy your local shady internet gold and silver broker. Hate the government? Buy some overpriced metals!(tm)

  • nancyjane_gardener
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    TAKE money from the wealthy, and give it to the "low class". "

    LOW class? Because we don't make a certain amount of $ (due to the economy and a layoff) we're now considered "LOW CLASS"?
    Sorry, this subject has gotten so OT, I had to chime in! NT

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, nc, it is very curious how those guys who tell you that currency will very soon be worthless and only gold or silver will have value, nevertheless are quite willing to give you the gold or silver (or at least a paper certificate) and get stuck with the fiat currency. In the form of a bank check or electronic transfer.

    I wonder why that is?

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    What's really off-topic is pretending a law written back in the "good ol days" was written the day after Obama got elected...or that somehow he's masterminding the control of corporation's wills without passing any laws or mandates. What a magical and powerful man...wow.

    We don't live in a "nanny state" now any more than we did in 2000, 1990, 1980, etc... Ronald Reagan didn't take my right to drive without seat belts away. To suggest he did is insane. There's some connect-the-dots logic to current arguments going on in this paragraph. =p

    This same argument has been rehashed so many times over the decades yet some people with no sense of history...or more commonly, blinded by sports-team politics mentality...pretend this is all new territory.

    Some people are too busy rooting for their team to realize what's coming out of their mouths or fingertips.

  • wantonamara Z8 CenTex
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In case anyone wanted to know how things turned out to day in Memphis. Here is an update

    "Update #4: Today, September 23rd, Adam Guerrero appeared before Judge Larry Potter. Here is an update As reported by @Saylehan:

    Court order stands but judge applauds Adam's progress made and advocated finding a larger space for him to compost, collect rainwater, and educate. Judge says pond can stay as long as bubbler is installed and mosquito-eating fish are introduced. Judge asked to cut back on the number of worm bins and rain barrels. Cover rain barrels with mesh to keep out mosquitors. The court says it never intended for garden to be destroyed, just kept up. It's concerns were rain barrels, worm bins, ponds, etc. The most promising quote "We're going to work this out," says Judge Potter."

  • nc_crn
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for the update.

    The judge actually did his homework...or he's tuned into horticulture, one.

  • wantonamara Z8 CenTex
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think the power of the internet and grassroots organization left the judge with far to much material to do his homework. I think he did come to an understanding that the complanant was an A1 2sshole that was trying to manipulate the government for his own reasons.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Outcome

  • pnbrown
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wonton, that memphis flyer also contains an article about Gary Fowler. I didn't realize that he was an original motivator of the Svalbard seed bank.