It makes me sick that people are blaming the parents, going so far as to call them dim-witted and incompetent. These poor parents witnessed their child being snatched by an alligator. Can you even imagine? We should be empathizing and sympathizing and showing these parents an abundance of compassion. There isn't a single parent in the world who has never made a mistake (and I don't even think this WAS a mistake) but you can bet those parents are absolutely full of regrets on what they should have done differently. The fact that the father received injuries trying to open the alligator's mouth means that he was closely supervising the child. Alligators are very fast, and if the father had been further than right next to his son, he wouldn't have been able to touch it.

Also, sharks being in the ocean is not the same thing. Sharks in the ocean is a worldwide matter - everyone knows that sharks live in the ocean. If someone chooses to swim in the ocean, they accept that there might be sharks. Suspecting an alligator in a man-made lake on a hotel resort beach in Disney World is very different.

Responsibility, liability, negligence, duty of care and prior knowledge will all have to be assessed before any blame is found.

Personally, I think Vinny Gambini could slam dunk this one.

Should have, would have, could have... all of the finger pointing at the parents and at Disney makes me even sadder. This is a horrible tragedy. Disney has kept millions and probably billions of guests safe for over 50 years. They wanted that family to have a safe and memorable trip. They may not have had specific 'alligator warning' signs, but they did have signs that may have been sufficient if the advice had been followed. The parents ignored the warnings that were in place and a small child lost his life because of it. I feel horrible for them because they messed up, they know it and it's permanent. There is no fixing it. My thoughts are with all involved.

There isn't a single parent in the world who has never made a mistake (and I don't even think this WAS a mistake) but you can bet those parents are absolutely full of regrets on what they should have done differently

*****

It makes me sick to think that these poor parents will probably read or hear people blaming them.

Disney is 100% responsible to keep guests on their property safe. They failed and will end up paying millions, not much to that corporation. They don't want to put up a sign warning of alligators because it might make guests uncomfortable. People from Nebraska would not suspect such a danger, especially in a Disney resort aimed at families with children.

They don't mind doing it in Australia though.

We finger point at Disney because we expect better from them. They must spend tens of millions of dollars every year on upkeep and safety, how much would an alligator sign cost?. An alligator sign may have prevented this tragedy by warning parents of their presence.

They may not have had specific 'alligator warning' signs, but they did have signs that may have been sufficient if the advice had been followed. The parents ignored the warnings that were in place and a small child lost his life because of it

*****

But they DID heed the warning sign. They were not swimming. If they'd have been swimming, day or night, then yes, they would have been acting against the warning, but no one and no sign told them the risk of gators.

When we go to the OBX, there are often rip tides. People are told not to swim, and that's VERY different from wading in to cool off, which is allowed and even encouraged when rips are rampant.

Like preventing terror attacks, you only have to fail once, and Disney just did.

how much would an alligator sign cost?

****

As we've speculated, Disney might have decided against it (and I have no doubt the issue has been on the table) because it pierces the veil, so to speak.

The patina of magic is what Disney is all about.

I think a sign like that would have prevented this from happening. I like the explanation and clear visuals to handle any language barriers. Just saying "no swimming" is open to interpretation whether wading a few inches on shore counts, if people are not aware of the reasons behind the sign.

I can't imagine any parent allowing children in or near the water with a clear sign like that. Let's hope Disney starts being more detailed in their warnings.

My understanding of 'no swimming' has always been that you don't get in the water. The sign could be for dropoffs in the water, high bacteria count, broken glass or rocks, snakes, snapping turtles, boats or whatever. I put wading into the same as swimming.

That's the problem though. Everyone has a different interpretation. I would not think wading counted as swimming. If the sign said to stay out of the water, then wading shouldn't happen either. But it said no swimming, which by definition is "the sport or activity of propelling oneself through water using the limbs"

The sign above has a no swimming icon and it also says "keep out of the water and well away from the water's edge." There are no interpretation issues there.

When thoughtful and attentive parents have young children to raise and care for, even the calmest of people become neurotic. Paranoiac. Obsessively anxious. Overly protective. On constant guard and alert.

There's no evidence of that here. It's the parent's job, not someone else's. The obligation to be wary, protective and watchful for dangers can't be delegated nor should fingers be pointed at third parties when a lapse occurs. With small children and risks, there's no rewind button.

SnidelyWhiplash

When thoughtful and attentive parents have young children to raise and care for, even the calmest of people become neurotic. Paranoiac. Obsessively anxious. Overly protective. On constant guard and alert.

There's no evidence of that here.

*******

Incomprehensibly cruel. No one has any clue about what the parents did or didn't do yet, only reports from distant observers.

A report I read said they were watching a movie that was being shown outside. Yes, that's probably poor judgement on Disney's part when these animals are nocturnally active but that doesn't change my view. Have your own opinion, mimpadv, that's fine, but to me the outcome is more than enough information to suggest what the parents didn't do. They didn't adequately protect their child from the circumstances they placed him in.

I don't get the killing of so many alligators as a response. I heard on the news yesterday that 5 alligators had been killed because of this, but that they're still looking for the one that grabbed the little boy. So the alligators are living in their natural habitat and now they're being killed? Is it just to "satisfy" the people who are blaming Disney and to placate those who now are up in arms about the alligators? 5 (+) alligators have been killed, and they're still searching for the one who snatched the boy.

How do they know they haven't gotten that one yet? The child was "intact", so there are no remains to be found in the alligator's stomach. So will they just keep killing alligators? Is it just to satisfy the uproar?

I absolutely am not diminishing this horror at all. I cannot imagine it. But ... let's not get crazy. So put up the right signs (if people can't use logical thought process) and leave the alligators alone.

Sigh.

Have your own opinion, mimpadv, that's fine, but to me the outcome is more than enough information to suggest what the parents didn't do. They didn't adequately protect their child from the circumstances they placed him in.

*****

It's not so much you seem to entirely blame the parents. Obviously, we disagree as to who bears the larger burden of responsibility. It's that you deign to call them dimwits that I find appalling, particularly as they suffer an unimaginable pain that no parent should ever suffer.

It's a shame alligators are being killed. It reminds me of that scene in Jaws where all the local yahoos were trying to get the man-eater shark.

It's senseless at this point.

I wasn't directly calling them dimwits, I was making light of alisande's comment that of course they didn't know there are alligators in Florida, they are from Nebraska. As if that suggested that no Nebraskan knows anything about anywhere outside of Nebraska.

But, maybe that's a fitting label.

suzieque, I'm sure this won't help, but I read it's Disney's standard procedure. Remove and then euthanize any, and all, gators on their property. I assume it's "necessary" for some reason, but have yet to see why.

________from an article__________

"In the past, when Disney officials have discovered alligators in the
large lagoons near their resort, they have generally been removed and
euthanized"

I wasn't directly calling them dimwits, I was making light of alisande's comment that of course they didn't know there are alligators in Florida, they are from Nebraska. As if that suggested that no Nebraskan knows anything about anywhere outside of Nebraska.

But, maybe that's a fitting label.

*****

You had me, then you lost me.

An open letter to Perfect Parents;

a portion ---

"Because we have become a nation of blamers and shamers.

And how are accidents allowed to happen if we can’t blame someone? Surely, they can’t, right? I mean, random acts of nature, unpreventable tragedies, and fateful life-changing events that take place in a matter of nanoseconds cannot possibly take place if everyone is being a responsible parent, right? Nope."

Link to complete letter on Scarymommy.com

I've looked it up on the Florida fish and wildlife conservation site. As I suspected, the gators will return if not euthanized (and causes all kinds of problems, including death to gators any way!). Further, and I have to agree, the loss amount is something the gator population can withstand.

________________________________

Why does the FWC not relocate nuisance alligators in Florida?
Florida
has a healthy and stable alligator population. We have about 1.3
million alligators in Florida. Alligators live in all 67 counties, and
they inhabit all wild areas of Florida that can support them. The
removal of nuisance alligators does not have a significant impact on our
state's alligator population.

Relocated alligators often try to
return to their capture site. They can create problems for people or
other alligators along the way. If an alligator successfully returns,
capturing it again would be necessary and likely more difficult the
second time.

To avoid creating a problem at the release site,
nuisance alligators would need to be relocated to remote areas where
they would not encounter people. These remote areas already have healthy
alligator populations, and the ones that already live there have
established social structures. The introduction of a new alligator to
these areas would likely cause fighting, possibly resulting in the death
of a resident alligator or the introduced alligator.

Mimi said: The patina of magic is what Disney is all about.

Exactly, Mimi. The resort is one of Disney's "happiest places on Earth," and that doesn't include alligator signs.

Certainly guests in the resort would never expect a vicious, wild animal on the premises to kill their child.

This has been on my mind today. I can think of some things I did with my kids that were not the safest. Anyone else?

How is a no swimming sign happier than an alligator could be present sign? I think that is a bit of an exaggeration about the Disney "patina"

"No Swimming" is rather innocuous. A toothy gator is rather menacing.

I think the alligators were killed before the body was found, presumably looking for the boy inside. :(

If Disney had to screen incoming families and only allow competent/conscientious parents (which these two clearly aren't), their hotels would be half full. And, following alisande's caution, would have no dim-witted Nebraskans.

Wow, that's harsh, Snidely, even for you.

My goodness, anyone who doesn't know there are alligators in Florida's waters should stay home.

And that, considering that people come from all over the world to the Disney resorts, is an "ugly American" statement if ever I've heard one.

Sydney.....you're very black and white, and you're a very lucky man. You fail to see that it was a matter of seconds that the boy was snatched; did your children ever put themselves in danger when your back was turned? I will never forget having my second daughter in a stroller as she was a baby, and first daughter, aged 2, holding the stroller; a balloon was attached to the stroller. I'm VERY wary of passing cars, always have been. In a situation that would take too long to describe here, I nearly lost toddler daughter to a speeding car (in the parking lot,) as she tried to grab the balloon. I will never forget that, and again, I am a super-careful person-- to the point that it has always annoyed dh a bit.

I lived and worked in alligator territory for many years. On the golf course lagoons and ponds in the populated resort or residential locations, signs were always posted about alligators being present and "Do not Feed the Alligators!"

Families would still take bags of marshmallows in order to toss them to the gators. (Why marshmallows became traditional tourist food for these animals, I have no idea.) I'm not convinced, at all, that signage works to keep people from doing irresponsible or dangerous things. Sad but true.

Signage doesn't always work to keep people from doing dumb things, but at least proper, informative signage gives people the choice and could help avoid tragic accidents. I really, really doubt the toddler would have been allowed anywhere near the water if there were "Alligator warning - stay out of the water" type signs had been posted.

Maybe people think alligators are big and lunky on land and won't be a real danger-like the crazy idiots on a golf course filming an enormous gator recently.

No fear-just kept getting closer to film it.

To me, No Swimming means just that -- don't swim here. I would feel perfectly safe walking in ankle deep water or sitting along the edge. Disney really dropped the ball. I can't stop thinking about that poor child and his family. Imagine the horror of that night, knowing your child was under that dark, murky water, or worse.

ded, that's my whole problem with it all. No sign will bring back what he suffered. All alone. I want so much for no one to suffer it again, an accident. A completely immutable, inescapable accident. Regardless of anything anyone does. Makes me cry. Repeatedly. I want to hold him, close.

i really hate to blame the parents but my gosh, i would think everyone would know there are gators in florida., everywhere.!! go on trip advisor or any trip site and i bet in the first 5 ads at least one has something about gators. we were there with our adult children in december '15 and DH & I still reminded them to stay away from the water because "you never know" if a gator is in "that" water.

private pools are fenced completely over (dome-like) to keep the gators out, you see them everywhere in florida!!

but, the other side to me is, "your in a Disney resort, nothing bad can happen" mentality....good points above about disney not putting gator signs b/c afraid of ruining the patina of magic., you would think disney would put signs to avoid a lawsuit....?

so many different view points. blame all around in my eyes, but it solves nothing. little boy lost his life and nothing can bring him back.

Before you blame the parents, make sure you are/were a perfect parent yourself...

I'm not trying to blame the parents for this senseless tragedy, I know that their hearts must be broken.

I wonder how many fully illuminated, 'see to the bottom' pools are in this resort to swim or wade in. Why did they choose a dark beach instead of a well lit pool to let the child wade? I read that he was in 12 inches of water when he was taken, that's well above a two year old's knees.

Gators aren't the only dangerous animal that calls Florida home. I'm terrified of the giant snakes that thrive in the warmth. What about jaguars, panthers and black bears? These are all top predators that call Florida home. Who doesn't know that?

I suspect that these lovely ponds will be replaced with grassy areas and no water. Someday soon, we'll all be wrapped in bubble wrap for our own protection so we don't have to take any responsibility for thinking about the dangers around us.

On the link Debby posted, you can see multiple pictures of many children and adults using it like an ocean beach, with playing in the sand and wading. Disney purposely set it up that way.

They chose a beach because Disney uses that beach for activities for families. They were there for a movie screening.

PKponder, he was 1 - 2 feet into the water, not in 1 - 2 feet deep water. You can clearly see one other mother allowing her child into the water a 1/2 hour or so before the incident. It wasn't that dark yet. It was a man made lagoon. And there were a lot of people in the first few feet of water. (see my previous post, which is just one big link).

"private pools are fenced completely over (dome-like) to keep the gators out, you see them everywhere in florida!!"

No. Private pools are fenced or caged for safety. To slow down someone who might enter the pool and drown. Florida law.

Fences and screens do not keep alligators out.

Do gators dig under the fences to get to the pool?

An alligator that wants to can climb over a fence and break through any screen that cages a pool. It's rare that gators are found in pools, but it does happen. Mostly during mating season.

maddie, my bad i guess... we were down there a few years ago and rented a house an was told by the realtor that the pool was covered "like that" because of the gators...and that's what everyone does down here for safety. where we are, PA, your pool must be fenced for safety also but not domed

The main reason I think Disney is partially at fault (morally, not a lawyer familiar with Florida law so won't pretend to be a legal expert) is that they landscaped the area. They brought in pretty beach chairs, put in some beach sand. If they had left that area in a "natural" state then I wouldn't fault them at all. But they created this peaceful area that just invites people right up to the water's edge. Whether that little boy had his feet in the water or not, even just being right up to the water's edge would still be too close if you know alligators are in that water. I'm not from Florida. I certainly know there are alligators in fresh water all over Florida. But I have to agree that I could see myself, as a tourist, at Disney, walking right up to that water's edge myself. Disney practically invites you up to the water's edge with the way they've created that area.

I too will think they'll settle this quietly out of court. We'll never hear another word about it once this initial furor dies down.

"where we are, PA, your pool must be fenced for safety also but not domed"

The true reason people cage a pool is to keep the bugs out.

It was actually wrong that a realtor would lead anyone to believe that a screen might be protection from an alligator. Because it's not. Alligators really are not as much as a problem as this thread is making them out to be. If humans would quit feeding them, they would stay away from people.

YES, the screened in pool cages are to keep out the bugs! I owned one when I lived in Florida! We never even thought about alligators!

maddielee makes two good points....alligators are conditioned by humans to expect food, which makes them enormously more dangerous; and alligators really aren't much of an issue in the real scheme of things. They aren't inherently aggressive nor are humans on their list of prey species.

Like other large animals with ever decreasing natural habitats due to human encroachment, their paths will cross with ours.

I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would go feed the alligators! Who would do this? That's just stupid!

I can't imagine feed gators in the wild, and dislike the notion of taking kids to gator attractions where they can feed them captured.

It's a wrong notion to put into their heads.

"I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would go feed the alligators! Who would do this? That's just stupid!"

yes, it's stupid. But it happens all the time.

People standing on the shore, spot a gator, throw a piece of their picnic lunch out to them to see them move.

People buy raw chicken pieces with the intent of going to the lake to feed the gators...

Visitors at places, like Disney, who see gators from their balconies and throw out most any food handy.

People seem to think its the same as feeding ducks. It's not.

It's a shame alligators are being killed. It reminds me of that scene
in Jaws where all the local yahoos were trying to get the man-eater
shark.

It's senseless at this point.

Agree but this type of kneejerk reaction is not uncommon no matter how illogical it is http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-01/wa-catch-and-kill-policy-dropped-but-they-can-still-be-killed/7465908

During the trial, which cost the Government $1.3 million, 68 sharks were
caught and shot, although none of them were great whites. (and most were not all that large either)