Kitchen layout help needed!
Is this layout redeemable? I know it breaks some of the best practices recommendations but I am struggling to find a plan that is functional and best uses the space we have available.
For some background, we have been thinking about doing a renovation since we moved in 3 years ago. Initially we had a much smaller project in mind. We had worked out a decent layout (with GW help) but for several reasons the project stalled for over a year. We revised the scope of the project and learned we could extend out the whole back of the house (about 11’ deep). That allowed us to consider making some real changes to the layout. I’ve posted the current plans we have. This is the max FAR we are allowed so no other additions can be made.
We are a 2 adult, 2 small child household (2 and 3 years old). I wanted to accomplish an open concept with this plan. I’ve concentrated the kitchen along the north wall of the house for light and view reasons.
The struggle: the aisle widths are narrow by GW standards for a 2 person kitchen. I did 42” aisles (I believe measured counter to counter) to try to fit an island with seating and to allow enough room for a family room across the island. It’s tight. Is it so tight, it’s unrealistic??
I stumbled on the idea of having the walk-in pantry laid out like this and really fell in love with it. I never imagined I could have that kind of storage option in this size house (I see it as a place to put an ordinary microwave there, some other small appliances, most food storage I, a place for party platters). If it could stay, I would be really happy. But I wouldn’t sacrifice functionality over it.
Our current kitchen is absurd. Sink, DW, stove and fridge are in the same approximately 7-foot area with a 35 inch aisle. There is probably 36 inches of counter space in the whole kitchen. The bones of the kitchen are original to the 1940s when the house was built. Anything would be an improvement, but we want to make this the best renovation possible in terms of functionality and storage.
The island is the biggest wrench in this plan, but the kitchen feels too exposed to me without one. I thought about peninsula options but that seemed to block the flow to the outside too much and not accomplish much in terms of layout or storage. To try to give enough aisle clearance around the island, I had the idea of just including 18” base cabinets with a 12” overhang (I know 15” is really recommended). I would panel the sides so the island looked bigger from the sides (I don’t like the look of skimpy islands). Is this ridiculous?
I think an island with seating is the best option for us. I say that even though I’ve never been a huge fan of island seating. In this layout though, it seems important to me to have a place where the kids or others can hang out while we prep/cook. But if it will destroy the flow of the living area, I could give it up. For (my psychological) reasons, I’d prefer not to have a clean up sink in the island. The thought of having a sink front and center in the house bothers me. And I love having a dish rack next to the sink for air drying, which I would not do with an island sink. If it were essential, I could live with it only if the view from the family room was blocked by a pony wall (obviously giving up island seating). I would have less of an issue with a prep sink on this island if that was recommended.
I tried to work it out so the dining area was across from the island but there really aren’t many other good places to put a tv for the family room.
Our slider is huge, and we love it. It opens up the entire back of the house to the backyard, which is small but a nice green space. We had contemplated moving it the south wall of the house but that overlooks our driveway and the neighbor’s fence. It was too big a sacrifice.
Some relevant measurements:
Ceilings: 8’6”
Range: 36”
Fridge: counter depth 36” (probably built in)
Wall ovens (strong like but not a must-have)
As large a sink as we can manage (was hoping at least 33”)
Almost everything is moveable. The windows I have shown on my plan are existing, but we would add other windows as needed depending on the final layout (ie over the sink and possibly on the north wall or in family room).
My idea is to turn the current kitchen into an entryway/storage area. We are demo-ing the coat closet by the front door to give a bit more space to the ½ bath. We want to work in coat closet storage for guests and some closet space for book bags, brooms, vacuums, the printer, etc in that area. But the dimensions are flexible. We would like to open up the stairs on both sides (currently only the side to the LR is open)
Thanks for reading this novel, and I really appreciate any insights you may have.
The first floor plan and my kitchen layout:
This is a furniture layout I was considering:
Comments (13)
magpier
7 years agoRelated Discussions
NYC kitchen layout help needed!
Comments (26)I imagine the noise/exposure of the street-facing windows and the room closest to the building entrance is not ideal no matter what rooms you put on the street side. Even if it were your living room, it's no fun living in a fishbowl and hearing people coming in and out. I would suggest investigating what can be done to improve the quiet and the privacy. Since you're going to have the whole place torn apart anyway, now is definitely the time. Measures like putting an extra layer of drywall (and maybe green glue?) against the wall shared with entrance could help. If I could go back to before our remodel, I'd invest in heftier insulation too. In our remodel, we did a lot of efforts at sound proofing with drywall and green glue. We know that the previous owner of our apartment purchased headphones for our next door neighbor to wear while watching TV at night because the previous owner could hear the neighbor's TV while trying to sleep. Because we had that warning, during our gut remodel, we added drywall and green glue in the study bays (there wasn't room to just put a second layer of drywall on the surface of the wall) of the wall between our apartment and the neighbor's and literally have never heard anything ever from that apartment. We were also required for fire safety to have a double layer of drywall between our kitchen and the wall it shares with the building's stairwell, and we've never heard anybody coming up and down the stairs either. I am sorry now we didn't think to double up the drywall for the wall shared with the hallway on our floor -- we do hear our neighbors there all the time. We also put extra drywall on the street side walls, but we haven't changed the windows yet to be more sound proof, so effectively our sound proof wall has a lot of holes in it. :D I hope the wall work will pay off once we switch out the windows for ones that are double or triple paned. Replacing windows to be double paned and/or adding one-way mirrored tint could also help. Our HOA allows you to change the windows to be whatever you want as long as they still look the same (size, shape, muntin color/layout, etc.) afterwards, so your coop might be fine with it? I walked past a first floor apartment the other day that had mirrored film on their huge windows, and even though I walked up to the window and put my nose one inch away from the glass, I still couldn't see in. It was very impressive! I don't know what effect that has on the light quality inside, though. I also hear the tint stops working at night (when it's dark out and light in), but I imagine you'd have your window coverings closed at night anyway. There may be lots of different kinds of tinting options too. I haven't had to look in to this as much I looked in to sound proofing....See MoreKitchen layout help needed
Comments (41)First work triangle vs work flow...the "work triangle" has been superseded, or maybe expanded on is a better description, by the concept of work flow and work zones. It's not a matter of size, it's a matter of work flow. There was a thread a few years ago that discussed this (subject of something like "death to the work triangle"). Range location...with at least a 24" cabinet b/w the range and the end, there is a sufficient safety zone for the range. Two stools....With the new dimensions, let me see what I can do. With the original dimensions, there just wasn't enough room for seats with a decent aisle plus pantry space. Do you have a pantry elsewhere? If not, would you be willing do create one? Looking at your full-house layout, your Living Room looks huge compared to your Family Room and other rooms. Would you consider creating a door to the Living Room (near the basement door) and taking some space from the Living Room for a walk-in or step-in (or maybe just a reach-in) pantry? Window vs closed up....Do you think you need the dish storage? If not, you might consider making it a window. You might end up eliminating all the upper cabinets on that wall, though, for a balanced look. I'd have to think about how it would look with the bumpout and the cabinets on that wall as well. Another thought is to make just the backsplash a window -- and maybe all the way across. It would bring in more natural light and if the view isn't particularly interesting, it would be a compromise of storage needs vs window/light. Something like this: [Note: Those may not be windows, they might be terrariums, but it's the same look.]Source: Kitchen Capital WA https://www.houzz.com/projects/754295/churchlands-rcj14...See MoreKitchen Layout Help Needed
Comments (9)So I do think what you see is important from various vantage points -- but that is a good location for the fridge. I wouldn't move it. The good news is it's not the dirty dishes around the sink that is being framed in the doorway. A handsome fridge isn't a bad focal point, but I like the wood panel idea better than moving it. My 1943 home has a swinging door between the kitchen and dinning room. I can leave it open or close it when I don't want guests to see the dirty kitchen. I will upgrade the door when I replace the interior doors, but I'm going to keep the functionality....See MoreRemoving wall—kitchen layout help needed!
Comments (15)What is the existing is the bigger question. Does that bump out exist? Where are the water and vent locations currently? Anytime you’re proposing a 100K+ project like this, you need professional design help. Because you’re not getting your money’s worth out of the changes as pictured. The hutch seems to be purposeless and just there to occupy space. It’s not close enough to either table space to provide dish storage, or a small appliance breakfast station. The family’s entry is awkward and doesn’t give you that needed transition. The public entry is questionable as well....See Moremagpier
7 years agoThis does nothing to solve flow or clearance issues but I was experimenting with other pantry layout options if we close off the side door. Except for the wall oven change, the rest of the kitchen layout measurements are the same
Any thoughts?
herbflavor
7 years agomagpier
7 years ago
mama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoI'm having a difficult time reading your plans, so I used a different
graph (1sq=12"). I gave you a framed pantry and wall ovens, but the
pantry could extend into the oven space. I'm a fan of shallow stud bay
storage, too, and you could have that on the wall against the stairs--or
it could be shallow shelves for canned goods.I put a large
window overlooking the back yard, but you could also have windows on
each side of the range hood. The MW drawer is convenient to the fridge,
and clean-up is close enough to share the trash pull-out. There is space
on the pantry end of the island, for a drop zone for incoming
groceries.The fridge could be located beside the pantry, with the
ovens beside it, but I put it in a place which is convenient for anyone
in the living areas, and also convenient to the back yard, which m/l
centers the range and hood for a focal point. Click to enlarge:
magpier
7 years agomama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoYou are welcome. Another option, which completely separates prep/cooking from clean-up, with no zone crossing. The only landing for the fridge in this plan is on the island, but it is near pantry for easy stowing of groceries, and gathering of ingredients:
magpier thanked mama goose_gw zn6OHmama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoThere is a nice prep space between the sink and range in each of the plans, so if the island is more shallow, with seating but no sink, the plans still work, and the MW can be part of the oven stack, since you will have a range. In the second plan, the DW and sink can move toward the corner, leaving more space in the living area, or the cabinet on the end could be omitted. ETA, shallower island, and shorter sink wall:
magpier thanked mama goose_gw zn6OHmagpier
7 years ago
cpartist
7 years agomagpier
7 years ago
herbflavor