Oh hallelujah! So it is Chicken Grit -thank you for clearing that up Al, I'm getting closer to my illusive first batch of gritty mix!. I spent most of yesterday on the phone looking for grower grit, I found "cage grit", "chick grit" and "regular chicken grit" but no one knew what I meant when I asked for grower grit (and it probably didn't help that I wasn't sure what it was!). Regular chicken grit is available at my local Arrow feed store for $6.99/50lb bag. I assumed it was the wrong stuff as they had no idea what "grower" meant. I'll go there today and just pray its granite and not oyster shells in that 50lb bag. Bummer about the Lowes/HD stuff JoJo - that was my back up plan! ...although I could actually use the remainder for a pathway if some of it would work - what percentage would you say was usable? I still need the illusive pine bark fines - now my clematis plants are taking off its a race against time to get their new pots ready! BTW Al, I really appreciate all of the wisdom you have spent so much of your time sharing, thanks to you, now every nursery worker within 100 miles of my house is looking into your mixes and the guy from the distribution center where I found the MVP Turface was very interested, he even wrote down the website and your name etc to do more research, I think the light bulb went off that they may have a whole new way to market that product. Thanks! Nik

Hi all, Just wanted to report on my observations on my first trial with the 5-1-1 on my potted outdoor orange jasmine. After 5 months since the date I root pruned and repotted into the 5-1-1 (uncomposted bark/vermiculite/peat moss) I have to say that it's been doing averagely alright. What I noticed is that it needs a lot of fertiliser - I'm doing miracle gro 24-8-16 as foliar once to twice a week and a 5-2-6 slow release fertiliser every month. Without which the orange jasmine doesn't look healthy and blooms less than it used to in the clay soil. Also I'm having to frequently water it more than the other orange jasmines which is not a bad thing. The leaves on this orange jasmine are way huger than the other orange jasmine in a clay loam soil. I also see loads of fibrous roots and it is a lot more whitish than brown in colour. May I ask if it is normal for ants to habitat in the 5-1-1? I usually flush the soil and I alot of saw small ants crawling out of it. Just as a reference, the particle size of my mix looks like this. I just recently repotted my ficus lyrata into a bark, perlite, vermiculite and peat moss mix. This time round I sieved out the dust from the bark and vermiculite and the mix was more of 5-2-1-1 (hey I need to get rid of the vermiculite somehow). Is there another substitute for the bark? The bag I bought looks imported and was expensive as it is. I live in south east Asia.

We know the PWT disappears as the soil particle size becomes larger than about .100 (1/10) inch, so the goal is to have as many particles as is practical in that size range just a little smaller to just a little larger than 1/8" ...... say 1/10 - 3/16". The reason I like the bark fraction to be a little larger than that is because it offers allowance for some measure of breakdown in particle size over the life of the soil. Al

Re: "Is there a thread that will tell me exactly how much to mix of each and how to screen etc?" I'm sure there are many others that are just as good, but I happened to have this one bookmarked: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg031028425011.html It's a 1:1:1 mix, or equal parts by volume, of the granite, Turface, and bark. As for screening, that's covered more in the thread, but I believe you're aiming for a particle size of between 1/4, and ideally 1/8 inch, but 1/16 is acceptable. I was never able to find a 1/8 screen, and screened everything over an aluminum insect screen (1/16) without any real ill effects besides needing to add a wick in my largest pots. Here's what my last batch ended up looking like: That said the ratio not an exact formula that you have to follow. Example: I'm trying a mix of 1 part bark, 1 part granite, 2 parts Turface for more water retention in my potted hydrangeas. Once you get the hang of the mix you can try to adjust it to suit your needs, but honestly out of almost 30 different kinds of plants and trees I grow in containers - the hydrangeas were the only ones I felt compelled to mess with the ratio, everything else seems to love the mix. Though one of my orchids is being finicky in it... Here is a link that might be useful: Al's Gritty Mix -- A Learning Experinece