What a glorious bush!

Not OB, one can tell both from the blooms and from the leaves. Most probably DdB.

Btw I have noticed HMF has stopped calling DdB as DdB and are now using only the name proposed by the Aussie Tea Ladies i.e. Comtesse de Labarthe. Funnily enough the name DdB does not even show as a synonym but it is searchable... it also remains as DdB for the climbing version. I think they have created more confusion instead of clearing it up..

I also vote for DdB. Mine used to look like Jaqueline9CA photo and one day, pow, its gone. Doing the post-morten, I think bugs got to the trunk. I was heartbroken. It has variable bloom shapes.

Fragrance might be a clue. Duchesse de Brabant smells like raspberries.

Anne, This is my new ARE DdB planted 1/2016. I think it looks similar to yours.

Sheila's garden. · More Info

Also, the Duchesse's leaves have wavy edges. You can see them in Sheila's picture.

That is so funny about HMF - in the tea rose book the Australian ladies wrote, they said that when DdB/Comtesse de la Barthe was first identified in Australia, its common name in Australia was "Countess Bertha".

Jackie

Countess Bertha!!! That is hilarious!

I agree it's definitely not Old Blush.....

'Interesting' naming discussion about DdB over at HMF. 'NikosR' is yours truly.. I'm trying to argue that you can't just make the name DdB disappear regardless of which is the historically proper name, but I feel I'm not being successful in making my point. Maybe you could help?

DdB / CdL discussion

Nik, I am curious - who was the Comtesse de la Barthe? Was she the same person as the Duchesse de Brabant (I know some of those aristocrats had several titles)? I am hoping you have some facts to share with us. If the name DdB is "not historically proper", why is it not? Just very curious.

In the US, the name DdB seems to prevail everywhere. I only found out it had another name by reading the Australian ladies tea rose book. I see no reason whatever for HMF to refuse to list DdB at least as a "AKA" name - lots of old roses on HMF list dozens of alternative names. It does just seem to add to the confusion if HMF is still using DdB for the climbing sport. Was there ever another, different, rose which was called DdB?

Jackie

Jackie, I have no idea who any of these ladies were and I have no clue what is the proper historical name. You should ask HMF and the Australian Tea ladies about the latter. I only argue that regardless of which is the correct name, the name DdB cannot just disappear overnight since it is in commerce in both the US and Europe (and Aus judging from what the Aus Tea book says..).

I googled DdB, and evidently there was a historic person by that name - she was married to the Duke de Brabant, which was a Belgian title. There is even a "Place de la Duchesse de Brabant" in Brussels, so it seems unlikely to me that the name DdB was just randomly "given by some nurseries for marketing in the US", as it now says in HMF. We all know that roses' names were frequently changed for marketing in the US, but this seems like a strange choice (more likely is the name "shell rose", which has also disappeared from HMF as another common name for this rose). Has HMF instituted some new policy to NOT list other, or common, names for all roses? Other roses which I have looked up still have their "aka" lists.

I agree with you that even if this rose was originally named CdlB, trying to wipe out references to it as DdB is just silly, and will create nothing but confusion. Not to mention being inconsistent. HMF still lists Madame Joseph Schwartz as 'white Duchesse de Brabant', and the climbing sport as 'Cl Duchesse de Brabant'

Jackie

Now the very same bush that put out the blooms above has a branch that is putting out magenta, dark pink, fushia, whatever you want to call it blooms.

The real color is darker than these appear. Old Blush sport? The leaves do not have the wavy appearance of DdB so I am calling the bush Old Blush, which is what the ARE label says.

Anne, the last pictures you posted with the dark pink coloration looks nothing like Duchesse de Brabant, but does look a lot like Old Blush. How large are these blooms? My Old Blush blooms were on the small side, but were probably underwatered.

Do you think it might be 'Napoleon'?

My 'Napoleon' has lost its tag, so I'm waiting for fall blooms to try to ID several roses.

I'm wondering if it could be 'Napoleon' as well. Mine is in a south-facing sunny border, and its blooms are very changeable with the progression of the growing season. Early on, they tend to be double with light pink centers and dark pink outer petals. In July and August, blooms look like those in your most recent pics, except that the petals quill from being in all-day sun. Next month they'll turn extra-double, looking almost like Centifolia blooms, with blush centers and mid-pink outer petals. Scent to me is like gobstopper candies -- I don't get the cherry Nibs scent like I find on red Chinas. Growth is like 'Old Blush' on steroids -- stouter and thicker, but of the same general habit.

Another possibility -- could there have been two different rooted cuttings in the pot?

:-)

~Christopher

The blooms are about 3" across fully open. I love Christopher's description of scents! I'll check out Napoleon. Thanks all.

Napoleon is one of the best-looking roses I have in fall, winter or early spring weather. I know I'll be able to ID it in cooler weather because it will be so much better looking than most of my roses.