Haha, sheesh, that a good one, I really did laugh out loud (the second time I read it, I'll admit to being slow on the uptake).

Several people here might feel much happier and safer living in padded cells. Then all the rest of us mean-spirited folks would feel safer, too! Win-win! And condescension galore! Yay!

K sissy, maybe you should ask amylou or loon lake to shoot that chip off of your shoulder.

"Then all the rest of us mean-spirited folks would feel safer, too!"

Safer than what sheesh? Are you afraid of something? Maybe if you took steps to be able to defend yourself.....

".... routinely attack outsiders ...." Outsiders? There are outsiders here?

Just waiting for the word "clique" to show up. We can play Message Board Bingo.

Oh, c'mon MizGG. It's Friday. Time for Jagerbomb Message Board Mean Girl Bingo.

Can we talk about abortion now?

Yes pls, ha

Well, this has certainly turned into an interesting and controversial thread which was not my intent, but I love a good discussion. I usually shy away from "hot topics" because often I dont feel well-versed on the subject or because I know that the "other side" is never going to have a light bulb moment and agree with my side of the debate.

Re Amylou: it's obviously legal in your state to carry a gun and you feel safer doing so; however, I would find being in a constant state of vigilance exhausting. I don't want to pull into the Safeway parking lot (or the gas station or Home Goods or the dry cleaners) at 1:00 in the afternoon and stake out the surroundings before I even leave my car and be always watching and assessing everything and everyone around me. That's no way to live IMHO.

Joanie

I really couldn't imagine not being vigilant. It's how I have lived since childhood. To me it's routine. I understand that to those that haven't lived like that might find it excessive. But a scan of the surroundings is something I automatically take note of, like I when I listen to the weather report or something. It's hard to explain. It's not like I'm taking pictures or checking under the car or poking the shrubs with a stick. (Although.....)

I know some people don't like to think about what bad things might happen.

It makes me think about those life insurance commercials where no one wants to talk about someone dying,and when they do suddenly go,poor aunt Bertha is broke.

I remember when I was 20, there was a brief time,about a month, in fact, when I was without health insurance. My father kept nagging and nagging and nagging. Then one day,while sitting in line at a red light, an older man was not paying attention, and slammed into the back of my car at 50 miles an hour,throwing my car into the car in front of me. I'm 31 now. I just paid those medical bills off a couple years ago. That was my fault for not suing the guy, but he had no insurance, and I felt bad for him.

Now I have health and life insurance, and a pistol and a shotgun. None of these things dominate my thoughts,but if I didn't have them, they would.

Amylou, you seem to believe that those who choose not to arm themselves with a deadly weapon can't possibly be as observant or prepared as you with your "pew-pew!" gun. (Sorry, but that's the image I have of firearms - almost cartoonish, they are, in their complete lack of appeal to me.) So, you carry a gun and are convinced that you are fully capable of using it in an unhesitatingly responsible manner. We can all only hope you're right. But please know that those of us who choose not to arm ourselves believe that we are no less safe than you; in fact, we believe we're safer. You aren't going to change our minds and we aren't going to change yours. The fears that could potentially dominate your life are not the same for everyone else.

This horse is not only dead, but has been pistol whipped all the way down to his poor old crumbling bones.

She kind of sounds like George Zimmerman.

If you are tired of the conversation turquoise,feel free to skedaddle. We will try to carry on without you.

You don't seem to be able to comprehend anything other than your own opinions,.or I wouldn't have to remind you AGAIN,that being alert and prepared is not being dominated by fear.....here I go again talking to a turquoise wall. Shoo!

For those who are armed, who would you shoot? If you saw someone from yards away stealing your car would you shoot them?

I can almost understand shooting someone who entered your house while you were there, but would you shoot someone who you see leaving your house carrying your TV?

My father-in-law (retired sheriff) always told us to leave an empty holster on the dining room table. If a bad guy was to see that the holster was empty he would think that the house owner might come home and be armed.

You cannot legally shoot someone unless they are presenting a real threat to your safety or someone else's. If someone is in your driveway stealing your car, you cannot legally shoot them. If they see that you see them, and they pull a weapon, you can.

That sounds like good advice. But nowadays the bad guy would see that and start looking for the other guns to steal before the homeowner got home. My bosses daughter, who is a sheriff deputy, once told me that if you shoot an intruder, make sure that they are ALL THE WAY in your house. Then it doesn't matter if they have a weapon or not. But if they are in the yard, or even packing your stuff up in the back of their car, you can't shoot unless they have a weapon. You CAN hold them at gunpoint until law enforcement gets there,but anything other than that and your looking at a murder charge.

So Amy you would shoot someone who was stealing your possessions?

kswl2

If they were in my house,yes. You can never be sure what else they will try to take by force. If they tried to carjack me with a weapon,yes. If they went to steal my empty car from my driveway,no. If i happened to arrive when they were packing up my TV into the back of the car, I would more likely keep driving and call the cops.

Depends on if they were in her house, threatening her or her family.

I see you’re all still going strong here
:-D.

What bugs me is whoever blamed Amylou for
starting this gun fight is wrong. Someone else started it by referring to gun
toting Texans and crazies. (It is irrelevant
whether you agree with their statement or not). Her reply to that provocation
was simple, stating that she carried a gun to defend herself against anyone who
tried to harm her. That the hair-trigger,
politically frenzied jumped on her response in attack mode (typical here) and have been going at it ever since is on
them not her. Reminds me of road rage.

I read a number of her subsequent replies mostly early
in the thread, not sure how much. Even
if you disagree with her views, she discusses them reasonably and civilly
even in the face of the hostile personal attacks - unlike others. I give her a lot of credit for that.

The other thing that is troubling is how minorities
here do not have equal rights to state their views on GW without being attacked. It
seems unconstitutional by nature. That is not even
close to being a discussion – or ironically, a civilized, peaceful and morally
driven society.

I totally support amylou321 and loonlakelaborcamp. They both have explained themselves in a logical fashion. They have every right as we all do to defend ourselves with whatever force is necessary to save ourselves. We are all lucky to live in a country that provides us with this right in our constitution. What I don't like about several of these conversations is that there are several people who try their very best to hijack the conversations and intimidate others by ganging up on them. That tactic never works. Then they resort to name calling (bigot) like children, etc. It only makes some people more determined than ever to present their viewpoint and fight for themselves even more so. Whoever chooses to do so can be a part of this forum, and just because some people don't like their opinions, viewpoints,etc doesn't mean that they are going away.

Snookums I used the expression gun-toting Texans so feel free to use my name, no pussy-footing required. I am surrounded by gun toting Texans, a crazy just shot an 11 YO, so in my world those are realities. I would feel very badly if you're suggesting I provoked the passionate tone this discussion has taken. But the orig subject was about speaking up, why or why not. That is what I did.

Sorry, but this was an innocuous thread about speaking up until Amylou introduced guns into it. Well, bossy mentioned being shot by a psychopath, but that was ignored and Amylou upped the ante.

"I am not afraid of gun toting crazies, as I am a gun toting non-crazy, and I always have a pistol on me. I would not hesitate to use it on a crazy. Or a non crazy,for that matter, should they decide to attempt to bring harm to me."

As I have said before, the debate is one which is not likely to change any minds and which engenders strong feelings on both sides. Best to let this one just fade away, I think.

I agree with you snookums2. We should be able to state what our opinions are without being attacked by others here who believe differently.

Amy, I asked because of this statement:

But if they are in the yard, or even packing your stuff up in the back of their car, you can't shoot unless they have a weapon.

"or even packing your stuff up..." That sounds as if you are regretful you could not shoot a person under those circumstances.

kswl2

Ok. I am not. Anything else?

"I agree with you snookums2. We should be able to state what our opinions are without being attacked by others here who believe differently"

Questioning is not attacking.

Expressing a very strong opposing mindset is not attacking either, but then again I'm under the assumption we are all adults here and know when it's absurd to take the butthurt stance.

What is beyond absurd is introducing a fiercely debated societal topic and expecting discussion to be nice and sweet. That's delusional.

I seem to recall being referred to as a "paranoid,tin foil hat wearing gun nut" and being compared to George Zimmerman,a murderer. Neither of those posts were in the form of a question, or expressing an opinion about any specific social issue.

Good thing I'm not sensitive,i might have been offended.

You did use the qualifying word "even" which is what prompted my question. I am very glad to hear you are not the type to shoot people who are stealing your stuff.

I apologize for the confusion. To be clear, I do not feel it's justified to shoot someone who is not threatening physical harm. Stuff is replaceable. People are not.

You do some strong, disrespectful questioning then Maddielee!

We all may have been offended at any number of thoughts expressed here. So what? Nobody is forcing participation, and each one of us has been active in this thread of our own accord. If it's too much for any of us, we don't have to keep opening this thread. It's very clear that opinions are closely held and strong, and minds won't be changed on either side. To stop and call the "waaaaambulance" at this point is so silly.

That said, I'm going to enjoy this beautiful spring day and I truly hope everyone else has a nice weekend.

Amy! Move to Wisconsin! In Wisconsin, the law says all you have to do is "feel threatened" and you can shoot away. You don't even have to be protecting yourself or property, just feel threatened. It's already happened here several times.

I'm sorry. I wasn't going to participate any more, but I guess I'm just as immature as anybody. At more than twice Amy's age, I should make allowances for relative youth. As the mother of six current and former 31 year olds, plus knowing their spouses and countless friends, and having worked for years in the high school library, as far as I know I have only met one or two people with Amy's point of view and one of them accidentally killed himself while cleaning his pistol. Accidents happen, and every day I see his mother tending the little memorial to him she put in her yard after it happened several years ago.

I'll never forget that day, either. Hub and I heard a loud bang, wondered what on earth it was. Hours later, after his mom came home, an ambulance came. Somehow, this fine, smart, handsome young man, 19 or 20 years old, brother of a sheriff's deputy, son of an ER nurse, shot himself, apparently while cleaning his gun. His mother's memorial includes the ribbons and medals he won as an expert marksman, the cleaning tools he was using, and pussy willows.

Did someone call a waaaaambulance? I thought I was calling bs on certain claims that were made about the nature of some comments made by certain people. Those certain people now claim that all comments made were in the form of questions or opinions on social topics,not in the form of character assassination of those who have different views. Damn. I'll check the number and try again.

P.s. Not offended. Love myself.

Amy: "...and being compared to George Zimmerman,a murderer." I hadn't heard! I thought he'd been acquitted. When was he convicted?

Being aquitted does not mean he's not a murderer. It means the prosecution was so sure that public outrage would be enough to convict this guy, that they made almost no effort to actually prove their case,therefore turning a murderer loose on society.

Fact is, he called 911 and was expressly told by dispatchers to keep his butt in the car and go about his business. He decided to get out to instigate and engage in an argument,and then kill an unarmed person.

ETA: I forsee another can of worms being opened on this one......sigh.

Totally, completely incorrect. This is America. He may have killed someone, but unless convicted he is not a murderer. Two different things.

Ok.

"You do some strong, disrespectful questioning then Maddielee "

Disrespectful? Please show me.

It has never been my intent to be disrespectful.

Amylou, I am not calling you a murderer since you haven't had the occasion to murder anyone yet. It seems you will pull the trigger as long as it's legal, just as George did. You and he have the same cocky attitude and see everyone as a threat.

I have never instigated an argument which lead to the death of someone else. I fail to see how any part of my attitude is cocky. Is it because i can defend myself and know it? Thats not any more cocky than knowing that I can drive a car,cook, and do a frigging cartwheel. And I do not see everyone as a threat. Just those who actually....you know...THREATEN me. Do you actually read what I or anyone else posts? If you do,you seem to have a major comprehension problem.

Don't worry, you have lots of company in that club on this thread.

You also seem to have an anger problem. Gun + anger issues = ?

No anger here dear. And even if I allowed a bunch of what are essentially strangers (uninformed, close-minded ones to boot) get me angry, I wouldn't waste a perfectly good bullet on such. Not unless they tried to harm me that is.... it would be the equivalent of shooting a cross eyed toad for looking at me sideways. I don't like toads,.but wouldn't shoot one.

Oh, and sheesh, thank you for your suggestion, but I think I'll stay where I am. Clearly you, along with others here,still seem to think I am looking for a reason and opportunity to shoot someone. At almost twice my age,as you pointed out, I would think you might have the wisdom to tell the difference between being ready and being eager. Alas, there goes that myth of wisdom and age and all that. With all that library experience, one would think you could read my posts and truly understand my position, not twist and contort it into another,especially as I thought I had made my views clear.

Well, to be fair, amylou, I was greatly relieved when you posted:

To be clear, I do not feel it's justified to shoot someone who is not threatening physical harm. Stuff is replaceable. People are not.

because honestly, some of your previous posts didn't sound like that's how you thought. I think this might not have gotten so heated if that had come through more clearly earlier in this thread.

Oh, you made your views very, very clear, Amylou dear.

ETA to correct a typo.

Writersblock,

I am sure I never said I would shoot someone who was simply stealing. I have said from the beginning,from my first post on the subject, that I would be ready to shoot someone who was going to cause me harm. Never once have a said or even implied otherwise. It is my opinion that this thread got so heated because the anti gun people on this thread chose to twist my words and my position, instead of actually reading what I wrote. Instead of considering that not every,not even most people who own guns fit into the ridiculous stereotype of gun owners that they have created in their minds,they have tried to shove me into that mold,and I won't have that. It's not me.

"because honestly, some of your previous posts didn't sound like that's how you thought"

That is the whole point. How could it sound like I thought like that...when I never said anything to that affect? The anti gun people, very much the majority here, have made a united effort to highlight their own ideas of what they THINK and WANT gun owners to believe in, so that they may be outraged about something and have something to attack. Anti anything people love that. Makes em feel good.

Sheesh

Clearly, I did not, MA'AM. Not to you or those who think like you .

I have a couple of points:

1.) Way up-thread, Lisa wanted to use my dad as an example of responsible gun ownership. That's a bad idea because Dad is a psychopath.

2.) I don't perceive Amy as a bad, crazy, amoral or an irresponsible person. I do think she's naive in her confidence about being able to handle her gun or a dangerous situation. She has no basis in fact of her true abilities. Or at least none that she has shared here.

Amy, I hope your gun training is a continual process and you work diligently to hone your skills so that you can handle your gun in such a way that you won't harm yourself or innocent bystanders.

Magdalenalee.

It is so. I will indeed.Thank you.